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Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Reth, May 28, 2008.

  1. Reth

    Reth IncGamers Member

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    Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    After reading posts after posts about how people want diablo III to be just like Diablo 2 but just with improved graphics , different classes, I was thinking they have already done that. HellGate London is exactly that. I think most will agree that HGL is good to a point but lacks alot of substance. Well that's what Diablo 3 would be if you made it as close to diablo 2 as you could. I think for Diablo 3 to be success it has to be different enough to keep people comming back. It should however still have the same dark feeling D2 has and keep a hack and slash feel to it, but it has to be more than D2 in 3d to be successful.
     
  2. minizx

    minizx IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    Firstly welcome to the forums

    i hope d3 is nothing like hellgate london i felt it was by far the most dissapointing game i have ever played lots of promises that couldnt hold a candle to what diablo is mythos is a little closer to d2 but i feel it still lacks a certain something that gives you that warm fuzzy feeling when you start it up

    for me i want diablo 2 but with imroved pvp and a little more variaty with the scenery more caves or even the odd randomized beach with the ocean lapping across golden sand instead of sand filled valleys in act2 for instance
    all in all as long as they stick to what made diablo a sucsess and not borrow combat systems from wow oranything relating to wow in fact ill be a very happy man
     
  3. MrCanon

    MrCanon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    I bought HG:L.
    Like you said, decent combat engine but VERY crappy storyline and boring gameplay elements.

    That said, I still want Diablo 3 to have a 2-D isometric perspective engine.

    A VERY pretty 2-D.

    Seriously, it wouldn't be Diablo without a similar engine to the first two.
     
  4. stillman

    stillman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    Here's what I had in mind (and yes, it's for a completely different game than D2):

    Less chaos, more order. The mobs don't run over and push and shove amongst themselves, surround your chr and bash him or her like a gang would. Instead, it should be a war setting where we have legions of undead troops marching towards your chr in organized rows. Each legion can have a general who is tougher. Picture far more enemies, like the cow level for the entire game, but they are in neat rows instead of shapeless blobs. They also come and find your chr instead of you having to move to them (this idea is from The 7th Saga for Super Nintendo). Now, for even more order and to make sense, legions are wearing standard issue armor and weapons. If they are shown on the screen with polearms, then they ALL drop a polearm EVERY time. Same with their armor. Now, how do you stop players from getting rich selling all that armor? Well, the legions are undead, so the armor is very old, it was burried with them, it has rusted, and it has not been taken care of by the undead troops. It won't sell for much at all. It also takes up space so it'd be hard to take every body armor from the battlefield. Item farming would be easier to understand. If you want a better sword, then you kill the legions in areas where they have standard issue swords. Of course, cheap normals are mostly what drops. Demons rely on their tough skin for armor.
    The battlefield should be nice and flat for huge battles. The bodies can pile up to the point where the whole ground is a heap of bodies, making travel a bit awkward. Your chr can even stand on a pile of bodies and have a slight advantage at striking down at heads. The war setting would make all the weapons and armor drops make more sense. It's all there because there's a big war going on between humans and hell forces, and this stuff is being forged all the time.
    If it's a prequil, all the magic items from D1 and D2 were likely made during this war. Mage classes can make their own magic items, even rares and uniques with very high level spells.
    So wouldn't the game be too hard if it was all like the cow level in terms of enemy population? We'll no, because when you first leave the city wall, there is a no man's land where there are just dead soldiers. The first bad guys are wild dogs and such that are eating the corpses, and maybe some scavenger poor folks. Some of the wounded enemies aren't quite dead and they get up to fight, but they are easy since they are weakened.
    As you go further from town/city, there is another phase where arrows or rocks from slings are fired into the general area. They hit random parts of the ground, so if your chr stands around here too long, he she will get hit or have to use shield, armor, doging to avoid the missiles. In tougher acts, the arrows are fire arrows, there are more of them, then there are catapulted fireballs which leave craters in the ground.
    After this phase (running the gauntlet), we have the legions of troops as expalined above. Wave after wave of them march out from off the screen. They'll have a more organized way of surounding your chr.
    There should be some new weapon ideas like caltrops and nets for slowing down the advance. Or, you could take out the generals first to scatter or frighten off a legion. There has to be many wide area effect spells and one-hit kill moves for melee chrs. Also, to make players feel more war-like, the scraps of armor and rags from D1 that you first start out collecting are beefed up in the following ways: The lowest and first items you get are all metal. Skullcap, small shield/buckler, shoulder plate, even breast plate (as a first body armor). As you progress, you can actually go DOWN in def by getting studded leather, robes etc which would grant a tremendous speed bonus compared to metal gear. The best armor in the game should be a full suit with NO removable parts. You can raise and lower the visor but that's it. The loss of variety is the price for having the best def. Also, each class can only wear up to a certain armor class. Field plate for the bow expert, chain mail for the mages, full plate for the main melee fighter(s), suit of armor for a blacksmith or king (I would love to see a blacksmith hero class, or the title king for a high level knight who can finally afford the best armor class). A ninja/samurai class can wear up to really nice splint mail which practically looks like field plate.
    There should also be crueler weapons used by enemies, like something from the movie The Pit and the Pendulum--a two handed staff with a spoon shape at the end for flinging boiling watter or acid at your chr. Also, vats of boiling tar could be dumped on your party from castle walls. It'd also be nice to see upward attacks to flying enemies or towering enemies, and downward attacks for trenches, shorter enemies or knocked down/knocked out enemies. The bow user can use the upward shoot animation for hitting things way off the screen.
    Those are my main ideas. Everyone wants the mobs from D2. I say, give us mobs like never before. Some aditional spells to deal with the vast numbers of foes iclude: acid rain and exposure where your mage lowers the temperature of the whole area. These spells do very small amounts of damage to all the enemies (who aren't immune). Then, there can be a worms spell where maggots hatch in the flesh of all the enemies in the area. Undead don't have a working immune system, so they take more damage from the worms. The idea is to have tiny damage but to everything similar in some ways to an auradin. There should also be golems in the game of every form you can think of: stone, ice (like the ice trolls in act 5 of D2), gas golems, etc. The golems would present huge problems to relying on these sorts of spells (worms won't eat the golems, etc).
     
  5. Mestre Crjspim

    Mestre Crjspim IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    stillman, you are forgetting one small but all the same important thing... what the forces of Hell want to bring to the mortal plane is destruction and CHAOS. Monsters ands demons are nearly incontrolable... they desire blood, death, mutilation, chaos, destruction... they are instinctive, not rational. I recall that General Malevolyn in the Diablo novel # 1, The Legacy of Blood, had some problems keeping his demon's army ordered when they attacked Lut Gohlein. He eventually regained control, but the demons had some frenzy-ish behaviour when attacking.
    Imagine you, yes you - flesh and blood stillman that lives in Canada -, entering the gates of Hell with one dagger in hand. As soon as you put your nose inside you see hundreds of demons... what do you thing they would do? They would just leap at you to tear you apart. They wouldn't form lines and act militarly... if you take out that sense of evil instinct and chaotic feeling from the demons and from the corrupted zones, then all the bizzare and unconfortable effect that the dark aura had, will have no effect.

    Moreover, RPG means Role-playing game and it implicates that we develop our character from 0 to 100 (or whatever). The objective is to become stronger exploring the strenghts and weaknessess of your character. There are no reasons whatsoever to limit classes to certain types of armor or weapons. If you have a Sorceress that has enough strength to wear a Laquered Plate, so be it. It means that you have sacrificed other atributtes in order to use thougher weapons and armor. It's up to you to decide, no one else.


    One thing I would like to see is a title associated with your clvl. Starting something like Peasant and ending in Divinity or whatever. Titles like Adventurer, Champion, Knight, Mercenary, Bounty Hunter, Tomb Robber... that kind of stuff. It's not something that effects gameplay, but is something that I recall back from the days I played Faxanadu and that was interesting.
     
  6. PoiZonCraZy

    PoiZonCraZy IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    but what about the cutscene for the intro to act 5? weren't all the demons following baal with a military-style line?


     
  7. Mestre Crjspim

    Mestre Crjspim IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    I knew that that argument would come out sooner or later :tongue: and I believed that someone would also bring Shenk The Overseer and his ability to "control" the Enslaved...

    Firstly, Baal is no ordinary demon. He is one of the Prime Evils. He is feared for all those monsters and demons that follow him. Secondly, when Baal "gives the order" to attack in that cutscene, all of them just go on frenzy style. They leap forward in a chaotic fashion eager to kill that poor barbarian and enter the Worldstone Keep.

    I can see the point of all the military organization and order, but you have to remember that you are one person against an army of demons (in Single Player that is). And the chaotic style gives some intensity to the game, because you don't know what is going to happen next. Military tactics are predictable and based in some sort of strategy.


     
  8. sicilian

    sicilian IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    I agree, the chaotic nature of the enemy is what gives the game it's fast pace.

    One thing I wouldn't mind seeing though, would be more uses / effects of the environment. Maybe slow movement just a little bit when it's raining, or reduce the effects of freezing effects when fighting in the desert.

    Similarly, more things to make use of in the field, like the imps in Act V do with the Towers.


     
  9. Omikron8

    Omikron8 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    if hellgate london was AT LEAST as enjoyable as diablo 2 then it wouldn't be an utter financial failure (the playerbase is dropping every day)

    hellgate london was a lesson that you don't use a previous popular game to market your game and then IGNORE the vast majority of popular gameplay elements from that previous game

    what makes that situation even more sad ? many people at flagship were supposedly instrumental in the creation of
    diablo 2 !

    base item stat requirements (diablo 2) --> restrictive stat feed system that punishes players (HGL)

    all unique skills (diablo 2) --> MANY shared skills (HGL)

    descriptive skill tooltips (diablo 2) --> vague non-sensical skill tooltips (HGL)

    exciting compelling story, voice-acting, etc. (diablo 2) --> story written by a 5 year old (HGL)

    the list goes on

    HGL is a gameplay failure compared to diablo 2



     
  10. stillman

    stillman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    What if I sat down with the demons and discussed the possibility of a union with records of employment in case they quit, and even medical/dental bennefits?

    Actually, I don't know how to take the chaos out of demons. To prevent a chaotic mess too similar to D2, the only solution is having few demons among the legions of undead. The demons would be comparable to the super unique bosses that are frequent in D2 hell mode--very powerful, but not showing up as mobs. So mods like damage to demons would be useful if you want to get rid of these tougher guys faster, but damage to undead works on most of the mobs. It's one of those tough decisions players would have to make about gear.
     
  11. Jambe

    Jambe IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    The predilection of monsters to "gang up" on you should be based on their intelligence. Urdars and flayers, for example, should be more likely to employ "mob mentality" than, say, sabre cats. Mobs such as devilkin, undead and oblivion knights could conceivably be "bent" under the will of their masters such that they act in a (somewhat) ordered fashion, too.

    @Mestre: having militarily-ordered mobs in the game precludes neither chaos nor randomness, given that there will be more than one type of monster.
     
  12. Ilikestuff

    Ilikestuff Banned

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    I'm in agreement that i'd also like to see Diablo3 looking and playing similar to Diablo2.

    I'd also like to see alot of mini-quests implimented. theres enough townsfolk to keep you busy for eternity! even if theyre just crappy quests, like collect 20 Stygian Doll Heads and return them to Akara in Rogue Encampment. your reward could be a random item up to a certain item lvl (including any type of magic, rare, unique, set), to a rune, or a gem. pretty much anything, but with a well developed engine for it so its impossible to exploit.

    More diversity in characters too, more hirleings, better control of hirelings. Maybe in hardcore instead of selecting whether someone can loot your corpse, it automatically "pops" when you die. Then some unsuspecting char can stumble accross your corpse and be all like "Woo! War Travs!!"
     
  13. chubz

    chubz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    the mini quests thing is a pretty cool idea and i wouldn't mind something like that to, but the hardcore thing just gives people even more of a reason to use third party programs



     
  14. Ilikestuff

    Ilikestuff Banned

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    hmmm, good point, though i'd hope that blizzard will seriously tackle third party programs. theyve spoiled D2 for the majority. even if its just baal bots, its still pretty lame.

    hardcore only items would be nice too


     
  15. raishi

    raishi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    military styleish...sounds like the walk up to shenk...
     
  16. Mythic

    Mythic IncGamers Member

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    Re: Diablo III has to be more than Diablo 2

    That's not "more" than Diablo 2 in the "something new" sense. That's just Diablo 2 but bigger.
     

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