Diablo III Gold & RMAH Shutting Down

Eryendil

Diabloii.Net Member
Just checking in here, I also thought it was a joke when I first read about it. Not bad, Blizzard. I might buy the expansion after all!
 

snurrfint

Diabloii.Net Member
Well let's see. If I wanted to play self found (which I enjoy) what's stopping me from doing it? If I want to trade with another player, the gold auction house was there to allow me to bypass sitting in a chat channel (something I actually enjoyed in D2, but the AH is faster and is less scamable) and last of all, if the real money AH didn't exist in Diablo 3's main game, it would be available outside of the game and would be an unregulated crap shoot of people stealing my real life money where I make a deal and cross my fingers that they are legits.

So what are you talking about?
Eh, if you even played this game past nightmare and well into the endgame you would perhaps understand how the AH effects the game in a negative way.

If you just reached level 60 with a character, it is literally impossible to find a legendary item. You could probably run for several weeks without finding anything worth even a penny on the ah. Then you could go on to the AH with 3 million gold(which takes about 1-2 days to farm at that point in the game) and buy yourself a complete set of upgrades, probably more than dubbeling your defense and dps, and you think for yourself; "How can things be so cheep on the AH?"

The answer is that there are 10k paragon lvl 100 WW barbs and 50k botters running around 24h/day flooding the ah with items and pushing down prizes so hard that there is no point in even trying to find a good item on your own.

With my 5 lvl 60 characters i have only 1 item that i have found myself. That should never be the case in a game where finding items is one if the main attractions and should drive you to push forward.

Sure, you can play self found, but you will never have the chance to be even 10% as powerful as any character using the AH, and you can only dream of playing in a multi-player game or compete in PvP and duels, and you are stuck with a ridiculously low legendary drop rate that makes self found extremely boring and predictable.
 

BRKO

Diabloii.Net Member
Does this mean the revival of forum trading?
Would love to see d3 Europe Trading Forum as crowded as d2 ETF once was...
 

betazoid

Diabloii.Net Member
Great news! This pretty much had to be done, cause increasing item drops while AH in use would have never worked as good as intended. But still it is a big supprise. I guess they didn't profit that much from RMAH that they anticipiated.
 

Smash

Diabloii.Net Member
They want to remove AH to sell Expansion and Good Luck to them as they will need it a lot.
Because for me AH wasn't the biggest problem, terrible story that they force upon you hold me from playing game much better than AH.
 

HardRock

Diabloii.Net Member
So you're saying that any sort of trading is a bad thing.
Not at all. Completely unhindered trade is though, when the alternative is rolling the dice a million times. People will always prefer the former, unless the dice is loaded (drop chances becoming absurdly good) and they get exactly what they want, when they want it. Barriers must be placed on trading to better balance this situation.

If trading is too easy, that's a problem. Let's make trading difficult? As I said earlier, trading has always been integral to Diablo. Why are you wanting to eliminate trading? I do not understand the logic behind that sentiment.
I don't either, so it's good I'm not saying that. :)

If that's the impression you've got from my posts I wasn't very clear, I'm sorry. I only want trading to require more effort. More on this below.

The first thing to realize is that when the AHs are closed, the prices of all desirable items will increase due to slightly less available storage, and significantly less opportunities to sell or buy the items in question (the seller and buyer both have to be willing to trade at a particular time). The drop rates would have to be commensurate with that increase, or tradespam will be all over the place. Do not forgot to make a private game, either.
That's exactly what I want, to make trading more time consuming. This way the visible supply would suddenly plummet (only the most dedicated would bother with trading), prices would go up and drop chances could be increased safely, without worrying too much about flooding the market. You could still trade and even though it would require more effort your items would actually worth something, because there would be less competition, while at the same time finding your gear on your own would be easier as well. That should be the goal at least and since you can't limit the competition with the AH it must go. My conclusion is the same as yours if I understood you right, but in my opinion this would be actually good for the game. :)

Trade spam is an unwanted side effect of this, but I think the pros far outweigh the cons in this case. We may get specific trading rooms for weapons, helms, boots, basically for every AH item category we have now to lessen the spam. I can also just leave the trade chat when I don't want to trade, but if Blizzard is smart we'll get tabs for our chat, just like in WoW, so we could just switch back to ingame chat whenever we don't want to see a huge list of items up for trade.

Um...no one twisted your arm to use the AH.
That's not true. Just because the AH is an optional feature doesn't mean that you aren't affected by it if you don't use it yourself. Your drop chances are affected by it anyway. Another issue is group play. I was actually okay without the AH for a long while, but then I started playing with some friends who did use it. You already know what happened. I got left behind. What is this if not twisting my arm when my only choices are using the AH or finding strangers to play with? That's not really a choice. It's like saying use the AH or go to Hell (but definitely don't go to Inferno MP10).

People wanted a scape goat for D3 to be a failure and the AH was it when no one who hated it had to use it and people refuse to play, buy or learn the game because of it.
You're wrong, many haters had to use it, because guess what, people don't like to play more than a 100 hours without finding upgrades. D2 had much more reasonable drop chances, which is the reason why people enjoyed it without resorting to trading. The truth is though that at this point raising the drop chances wouldn't help at all, people would still rely on the AH for its ease of use.

The hate for the AH is unfair, and ridiculous because what it accomplished will 100% live outside of the game now that Blizzard is shutting it down.
It probably will, but you seem to assume that the same amount of people will use these services. In my opinion only a really small fraction of D3 players will be willing to trade through 3rd party sites as it still won't be as effortless as an ingame AH, but it will have added risks, especially in the case of real money trades.
 
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Kiroptus

Diabloii.Net Member
People have to understand that this move isnt a move that blizzard made because of the "whinners", Blizzard is very resistant to whinning and very stubborn to listen to feedback as well, the removal of the AH just meant that from game design standpoint, they just couldnt balance the drop rates and this ease of access trading, it just didnt work on a loot-hunting ARPG and they just choose to get rid of it. Its not that there was a team for blizzard to side to, as game designers they just finally realised that there was no way to balance the game with the AH on it.

Also, the returns from the AH were probably not very high as well, the maintance of the AHs and the Legal mumbo jumbo involved in it seem to be too much of a hassle for them for so little profit.
 

Rashiminos

Diabloii.Net Member
That's exactly what I want, to make trading more time consuming. This way the visible supply would suddenly plummet (only the most dedicated would bother with trading), prices would go up and drop chances could be increased safely, without worrying too much about flooding the market. You could still trade and even though it would require more effort your items would actually worth something, because there would be less competition, while at the same time finding your gear on your own would be easier as well. That should be the goal at least and since you can't limit the competition with the AH it must go. My conclusion is the same as yours if I understood you right, but in my opinion this would be actually good for the game. :)
Monopolist thinks he would be a good trader, hmm...


Trade spam is an unwanted side effect of this, but I think the pros far outweigh the cons in this case. We may get specific trading rooms for weapons, helms, boots, basically for every AH item category we have now to lessen the spam. I can also just leave the trade chat when I don't want to trade, but if Blizzard is smart we'll get tabs for our chat, just like in WoW, so we could just switch back to ingame chat whenever we don't want to see a huge list of items up for trade.
I'd suggest starting some public games in D2 sometime soon if you can, just to get an idea of what d3 will be like for those who want to play with new people occasionally. I know I found it convenient to buy things from other players on my time, and let them buy from me on theirs.
 

ShadoutMapes

Diabloii.Net Member
So you're saying that any sort of trading is a bad thing. If trading is too easy, that's a problem. Let's make trading difficult? As I said earlier, trading has always been integral to Diablo. Why are you wanting to eliminate trading? I do not understand the logic behind that sentiment.
Personally I would want Blizzard to remove all trading (except maybe within parties, on items that dropped within said parties). But they arent doing that. You can still trade without AH, its just more annoying to do so.
One issue with AH certainly is how effortless trading becomes, so removing AH does help on the problems (if you see them as problems of course) HardRock described. Even if it does NOT totally fix the economy.

In any way, no trading at all would be preferably imo.
I dont think trading works very well in games. Simply because the economic foundation is so terrible. The system is never sustainable.

I've only ever played one game with something that could even be considered a decent economy. That was Starwars Galaxies.
It did a few basic things right (more than just the examples below).
Items broke down over time. No more ever increasing item supply. There would always be new demand for items.
Materials (since it was an MMO it obviously had crafting) were only semi-unlimited. Simply because all materials has a quality rating. So low quality materials were an endless ressource, but high quality materials could be fairly limitied.
Limited resources, nearly endless demand (due to items breaking down) = two basic principles for a "healthy" market (or at least as healthy as one can consider a market to be anyway).
Obviously one reason why HC economies are generally a bit better - although they too have endless resources piling up over time.
The only resource limit in D3 (and most other games) is time. Which is hardly a limit anyway for bots.

Now you could implement these things for D3, but it doesnt really belong here. Items breaking down would suck in a game like this imo.
Blizzard could implement other ways to get rid of gear - destroying items for materials is obviously a really useless example of this - but really, I cant imagine it would ever be enough.

Don't try to implement trading if you arent going to make the choices that can support it. It is bound to break down over time.


Not to forget that no trading would mean no trade spamming and no gold sellers. Which would make it worth it for that reason alone.
 
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Rashiminos

Diabloii.Net Member
it was the scale to which it was implemented and the lack of effort required to sell that created problems.
The "lack of effort" provided for a multitude of sellers.

The system I described makes it a buyer's market.
No it doesn't. It would be a seller's market for those willing to put in the increased effort.
Sellers could not list ridiculous prices because the trade engine would simply not show their listing to anyone.
Sellers would just refuse to sell to cheapskates. Not many would be able to buy at those ridiculously low prices because the profit (if it is profit) would not be worth the increased downtime and hassle of finding someone to sell to, which leads to two things: stocking items that sell well (if it's not rare enough, it won't), and stocking items that sell for a tidy sum relative to the time spent selling. What is worth selling will be higher in price because a seller will be confident that s/he could do so under threat of forcing you to spend your time finding someone else rather than playing. Oh wait, you'd automate that part like some system we know about. So much for human interaction.
Sellers could also not flood the market because you're not given an invisible bucket to drop your unwanted items into. And if someone tries to screw you over or bait and switch, just block 'em and you'll never see their trades again. It ain't perfect, but it's just an idea and it's a hell of a lot better than "WTS!!! WUG??"
Sellers have no need to flood the market. It's a waste of their time without a supply of buyers. As for blocking the switch, sellbot01 has been blocked..., sellbot02 has been blocked,.. sellbot03 has been blocked... ...

  • You'd only get notifications if you have items marked available for trade anyway.
  • Make the notification simply a little icon indicating there's a request waiting. You respond when you want to.
  • Only allow one active request per item you have available.
  • Could implement a DND status if you really don't want to be bothered at the moment.
1) Either you're trading or you're not. If you are, sellbot69 wants to trade with you. It doesn't have the item you're looking for, but maybe you could see what it got.
2) Either you're trading or you're not. If you are, there's a little note from sellbot123 requesting that you buy all of his junk. If you close it, sellbot124 will come and make the same request.
3) Either you're trading or you're not. If you are, LeetSlayer wants to trade with you, but sellbotElite01 can click much faster, and so can his friends.
4) You're just not trading at this point.
 

HardRock

Diabloii.Net Member
Monopolist thinks he would be a good trader, hmm... :scratchchin:
I don't plan on trading at all after the AH closes, unless the devs mess up the drop chances once again. If that happens though I'm much more likely to just give up on D3 altogether.

I only took advantage of the AH because for me otherwise there was barely any reward in playing the game itself, so I felt forced into trading.

I'd suggest starting some public games in D2 sometime soon if you can, just to get an idea of what d3 will be like for those who want to play with new people occasionally.
I may do that eventually, since right now I don't see any reason to play D3 until the expansion. I may throw myself into self-found Hardcore just for the challenge, but other than that I don't see the point in playing.

I know I found it convenient to buy things from other players on my time, and let them buy from me on theirs.
Oh, I've found it convenient as well, as did many others. That's why the AH killed the item hunt for some people. Drop chances were horrible, but we had enough botters and people with a lot of time on their hands actually playing the game to supply the economy and provide an easy way for others to get what they want.
 
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JimOfTheJungle

Diabloii.Net Member
Okay, I get it that everyone is delighted that they are ditching the AH.

Me too. The AH had its pro's and con's and overall there were more negative things than positive.

But I am concerned that the alternative, if Blizzard dont do it properly, might be nearly as bad.

D2 trading left a lot to be desired. And the involvement of the 3rd party sites made the game as a whole seem a lot more broken.

Much much more is needed than simply saying you can still trade with players via the trade window.

Personally I wouldnt have totally got rid of the AH, I would have just uber-nerfed it.

Why not say players can only buy/sell one item for every x hours gameplay? But make the figure pretty high so that players can be mainly self-found but still buy or sell the occasional item through blizzard, rather than the d2 way of third party sites, and spamming trade channels.

Or even build it in as a more loot-based game mechanic. Perhaps add another merchant that you can list items with in town, but you only get access to buy or sell one item at a time if you find a scroll of sale / scroll of purchase.... There's no reason you cant make these scrolls really rare so that its a nice bonus to be able to auction the odd item here or there but you certainly cant rely on it to buy everything and for every upgrade. These scrolls would just need making rare enough so that a player gets maybe just three or four goes at the AH between levels 0-60....perhaps make them drop a little more frequently at the higest difficulties, because for the end game, trading is more essential to min/max characters.

Why wouldnt that work?!

The old adage is if its not broke, dont fix it. So if its broke, fix it. Dont entirely scrap it and go back to something that might be worse!
 

Rashiminos

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm not sure what happened there, but I'm not Zappa fan.:thankyou:

Oh, I've found it convenient as well, as did many others. That's why the AH killed the item hunt for some people. Drop chances were horrible, but we had enough botters and people with a lot of time on their hands actually playing the game to supply the economy and provide an easy way for others to get what they want.
A similar thing happened on d2's cattle net.
 

Nodders

Diabloii.Net Member
Oh Yeah :)

I have'nt played since around January , despite my max mf and paragon levels , nothing ever dropped for me . I used to say my char was bugged . So , AH was my port of call now and then . But now with the new loot system and no AH , I think I may just come out of hiding and dust a few characters off :)
 

Ev_

Diabloii.Net Member
The "lack of effort" provided for a multitude of sellers.
Exactly, which was part of the problem. Being able to effortlessly unload everything you find causes a flood in the market. Creating a system that requires effort will reduce the number of items on the market, encouraging people to play to find their own items.

No it doesn't. It would be a seller's market for those willing to put in the increased effort.
How so? I suppose here we're only talking about item for gold transactions (not item for item). Again, in my imagined system only buyers are shown possible trade matches, which would be based off the price they stated they'd be willing to pay.

Sellers would just refuse to sell to cheapskates. Not many would be able to buy at those ridiculously low prices because the profit (if it is profit) would not be worth the increased downtime and hassle of finding someone to sell to, which leads to two things: stocking items that sell well (if it's not rare enough, it won't), and stocking items that sell for a tidy sum relative to the time spent selling. What is worth selling will be higher in price because a seller will be confident that s/he could do so under threat of forcing you to spend your time finding someone else rather than playing.
And buyers would refuse to buy from extortionists. Realize that I'm intentionally trying to design a system that lowers the volume of transactions that occur. If you can't sell an item to another player, you can hang onto it and try again later, or vendor it. That's how trading works.

Oh wait, you'd automate that part like some system we know about. So much for human interaction.
This system is all about human interaction. The automation part is used to find potential smart matches of people to put in a room together.

Sellers have no need to flood the market. It's a waste of their time without a supply of buyers.
Great!

All the stuff you wrote about sell bots is unlikely. Bots exist to be profitable. Farming and unloading onto the AH is super profitable because no one knows the item came from a bot. I'd be amazed to see someone write a bot that could negotiate a barter against a human being and come out on the better end of the deal. Bots using the AH can also fly under the radar because they don't directly interact with a human. A bot requesting a trade would be waving a giant red flag screaming "ban me!" So all they could really do is spam you, which already happens so there's no change there.

4) You're just not trading at this point.
Yah, that's the point. I put that one in because you referred to moments in time where you don't want to be alerted with trade requests. Problem solved.

I get the feeling that you just want the AH to stay and you refuse to believe that any other system could work, right?
 

TheNix

Diabloii.Net Member
I only trust a handful of people and the probability that they will have the item I want, are willing to part with it and do so at a price that I am willing to give is so small that without the AH I simply would stop trading altogether. Without a dramatic increase in storage space I cannot put items in storage for a character to use later and combined with the fact that I can no long fence any non-required item there is simple no point in picking up any item that I cannot immediately use. So much for the better item drops!
 

In the name of Zod

Diabloii.Net Member
Oh Yeah :)

I have'nt played since around January , despite my max mf and paragon levels , nothing ever dropped for me . I used to say my char was bugged . So , AH was my port of call now and then . But now with the new loot system and no AH , I think I may just come out of hiding and dust a few characters off :)
This is the exact reason blizzard are terminating the AH, too many of us left cause the drops sucked and that's that. I think I can safely assume that they don't believe the money they are currently making off the RMAH would equal the money they could make of xpak if they closed the RMAH at some point to bring back players. Note also how thrifty they're being by not closing the RMAH until the very last minute that they have to. $$$

Unless they allow us to play offline on the PC I'd say there's a chance the RMAH would return at some point toward the end of the products life cycle just to milk that last bit of cash out of the community.
 
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