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Diablo II meets Nethack Tournament

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Flamearrows, Feb 24, 2004.

  1. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    Diablo II meets Nethack Tournament

    This tournament is a little different to what you may be used to, if only because it's one which involves more than one game. I'll answer some basic questions and then get into the actual tournament rules. Anyone who has any questions should ask in thread, or PM me

    The Basics

    What is Nethack?

    Nethack is a very old computer game, and is available at www.nethack.org. Unlike what the name would suggest, Nethack is called as it is because it was "hacked up by people on the net". It is a very old school RPG, where you guide your character to the bottom of the dungeon, kill the wizard, and retrieve the amulet. It is extremely difficult - in my years of playing, I have not yet succeeded in the ultimate aim. Nethack doesn't actually have any graphics, per se, but there is a "3D" version available right here. However, I don't recommend you use it if only because it's much harder to actually get anywhere with it.

    What does Nethack have to do with Diablo II?

    This is the basis for my idea. When you start playing in Nethack, you chose a character class. Each class has it's merits, although some are significantly easier to start off with. My idea was that you would select a class to play in Nethack, out of the 14 or so available. This class would limit what character you would be able to play in Diablo II

    So how would you score it, wise guy?

    When you die in Nethack, you are awarded a score based on the amount of gold you have collected, in addition to how many experience points you have accumulated by killing monsters. Nethack character die compulsively. You will die many, many times, and often from something as innocous as leaving a corpse a little bit too long before eating it. Anyway, my idea was that you could play as many Nethack characters as you wanted, getting your score as high as you could as long as your Diablo 2 character was still alive. When everyone's Diablo 2 character is dead or guardian, I would rank the participants. So, if you came first in Diablo 2 (Guardian at the lowest level, furthest along in game otherwise) and 3rd in Nethack (3rd highest score) your aggregate rank would be 2. The highest-ranking player wins.

    What do I get if I win?

    Well, I've got some nice stuff kicking around. I'd also like the participants to put aside anything that their character doesn't use and contribute it to the tournament pool. Winner takes all the stash, second and third would have prizes from myself.

    Why should I be interested?

    Well, it's something a bit different to the norm. Also, you can win cool prizes. I plan on this tournament going on for a significant proportion of time, so it'll give you a huge sense of achievement if you do well. Besides, we're all not as good at Diablo II, as, say, Nightfish. You might be able to kick his candy *** at Nethack though

    The Details

    So, exactly what are the class to class details?

    OK, this should be the section that should warrant a lot of your consideration. I've placed an asterisk next to the nethack classes which are easiest to start with, so you can get a basic idea. Essentially, the nethack classes which are the hardest have the easiest D2 characters with them and vis versa.

    Archaelogist - Necromancer. Summoning and Curses only, but only one curse can be used, although points can be assigned to pre-requisites
    *Barbarian - Barbarian. Combat skills and Masteries only. Must Dual-Wield whenever possible.
    Cave/wo/man - Necromancer. Only one minion can be used, all curses and all poison and bone tree
    Healer - Paladin. Cannot use Offensive Auras.
    Knight - Paladin. Cannot use Defensive Auras.
    Monk - Sorceress. Cannot use a weapon or shield - well, you can, but if you do, you cannot use spells to attack
    Priest - Druid. Elemental tree only
    Rogue - Assassin. Martial Arts and Shadow trees only, may only assign one point to BoS and Fade
    *Ranger - Amazon. Bow and Passives tree only. Only one point may be assigned in each of the evasion skills, only 2 points of vitality may be assigned per level up
    *Samurai - Assassin. No claws may be used
    Tourist - Any class may be used
    *Valkyrie - Amazon. Passive tree only
    Wizard - Sorceress. Only two points of vitality may be assigned per level.

    IMPORTANT: You may NOT back-up nethack save files to continue your game. Once you die, that character is finished. Gone. End of story. Make another.

    Well, that's all very nice. What are the Diablo II rules?

    Standard tournament rules apply. No twinking. One ATMA stash is allowed per character, and you may mule items off. You cannot save and exit to escape death. Areas can be repeated. Quests can be skipped, it's all up to your discretion. No cheating is permitted (trainers, etc.).

    Anything else I should be aware of?

    Sure. There's one other rule I've created to make your life interesting, and it's continuance uncertain. The maximum level your diablo II character can attain is 2.5x the dungeon level that your best nethack character to date has descended. In plain english, if the best nethack character you have gets down to level 20, then your diablo II character may level up to 50. There are a couple of exceptions to this. If you solve Sokoban, or reach Gehennom in Nethack, level restrictions for your diablo II character are lifted.

    Gehennom? Sokoban? *durrr*

    I blame durf for your lack of knowledge, and you can remedy the lack with these few sites which should tell you everything you ever wanted to know about nethack. Once again, nethack is ungodly difficult and you'll want all the help you can get. From the top

    The Official Nethack page
    The Second last word in Nethack spoilerage
    The LAST word in nethack spoilers

    For the Purists

    Those that have played nethack before are welcome to join. You may use any version after 3.3.1. Please pick a challenging nethack character to even out the tournament

    Anything else?

    I don't think so, but I'm frequently wrong. I'll be playing in this tournament myself, albeit with a Tourist (*shudder*) and I'll score. In your updating posts, please post your nethack depth decension and the score, as well as the trials and tribulations of your Diablo II character. Sabrecat is my offsider for fielding nethack-related questions. I'll close the tournament when everyone is dead, or everyone gets bored. Please, everyone give it a go and may the Light (or the Dark) speed you forth to victory!

    If anyone still needs clarification, please just ask.

    flamearrows
     
  2. Vildecor

    Vildecor IncGamers Member

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    Yay! It's finally started. (Yes, my name's changed, but it's the same old me...see re-introduction thread)

    I decided against Barbarian and am gonna go with the Ranger instead. It should still be easy enough, and hard enough on the Diablo side for me.

    So, my Nethack character will be:
    Artemis, Ranger, Female, Chaotic--each death will be succeeded by a new Artemis (Artemis II, III, IV, etc.)

    And my Diablo II character will be:
    Sarina, the Glass-Cannon Mageazon!
     
  3. Vildecor

    Vildecor IncGamers Member

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    Whew...rangers are a little tougher than I thought...that or I'm just having a streak of bad luck. Four incarnations of Artemis and the lowest I've reached is level 6. My favorite death was with Artemis IV. She was still in the 1st level, picked up a wand, zapped it to figure out what it was. Problem: do not zap unknown wands at walls. Attack spells bounce back. It was a death wand! :lol:

    Nethack total score: 11092
    Lowest level acheived: 6

    So I can get as far as level 15 with my Mageazon. But I'm gonna at least try to get a bit further in Nethack to see if I can live any longer!
     
  4. lemon

    lemon Banned

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    I will be playing a monk Bomzas - weaponless shieldless sorc Valkata.

    Good luck everyone !! :)
     
  5. nemar

    nemar IncGamers Member

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    you're game is like moria, it seems to me.
     
  6. SabreCat

    SabreCat IncGamers Member

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    So it's off the ground--w00t! Though I was interested in the Samurai, I've decided to go with Caveman and a poisonmancer. I expect a premature end to my progress with a DII death, so I'll probably be playing more Nethack than DII... and even that not much until after this week, as I have lots of essays to write by Friday. Ah, real life.

    And so it begins:
    Mugh the Caveman, 0 points, dungeon level 1
    Totus the Poisonmancer, Level 1, Act I Normal (Rogue Encampment)


    Haven't actually played any yet, as you see. Got to give some thought to the Necro build--do I want to take advantage of the one minion, or dedicate more points to curses? Prolly going with the latter.

    I take this to mean "...but not back on," since our mule-off stash becomes a prize stash. Am I correct? I'm also assuming /players setting is at our discretion.

    If there's no objection, I'll have this character on the SPF Hardcore Ladder as well. It won't alter the rules any, but my DII progress will be logged on the ladder, and whoever wins his stash can use the items on the ladder.

    EDIT: I'm playing vanilla Nethack 3.4.3 (the latest version). I was pretty sure you wouldn't want variant/patched games in a tournament. ;)
     
  7. lemon

    lemon Banned

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    Today i managed to reach lvl 9 in gnomish mines . 13000points. So i can lvl up my d2 char to lvl 22.5 .
     
  8. SabreCat

    SabreCat IncGamers Member

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    Very first idle attempt at my Nethack character. Not a very good one.

    Mugh-Cav-Hum-Mal-Law:

    DIED Dlvl 7. Weakened by a battle with two ants (giant ant and soldier ant) that hatched from eggs in my pack, then was finished off by a fire ant.
    SHOULD HAVE: used the ID'ed wand of lightning I had.
    FINAL GEAR: Plate mail and cloak of displacement; was still using the starting club, though I had to ditch the sling and ammo to be able to wear the plate mail without being Burdened.
    INTERESTING: Had an uncursed unID'ed luckstone, dropped by a rock mole.
    SCORE: 2676. What counts for placement in the tourney: total score from all games, or highest score attained? I would prefer the latter, I think.

    Mugh the Caveman, 2676 points, dungeon level 7
    Totus the Poisonmancer, Level 1 (max 10), Act I Normal (Rogue Encampment)
     
  9. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    Highest score is counted

    You're correct, Sabrecat. Only vanilla nethack can be used, and I made the oldest version able to be used as 3.3.1 because I at least know how difficult that one is - i.e, damn hard. For each character class, you may use any combination of race, gender and alignment - it doesn't bother me at all.

    Nemar - Yes, nethack is a bit like Moria. Please join! *begs*

    So, we've got Lemon, Sabrecat, Vildecor and myself in at the moment. I've got an hour or so to play, so I'll inform you of how far I get along with my tourist.

    flamearrows
     
  10. Vildecor

    Vildecor IncGamers Member

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    Bleh...I'm getting better.

    So far my best attempt was with Artemis 19th:
    Score: 26073, Dlvl 9 (Gnomish Mines)

    Was finally doing alright, went back to the town in lvl 8 to sell some stuff when two unicorn-like creatures came out of a shop and went after me, no space to maneuver between the shops. Fired many arrows, but them horsies are just way too quick. Shoulda been smart and used that scroll of teleportation I'd kept for just such an emergency.

    Quick question. I know rangers can gain expertise in Divination, Escape, and Healing spells. If you're wearing even one piece of metal armor is your fail rate always going to be 100% unless you're totally metal-less? Had a nice spellbook of invisibility, but could never succeed in casting it.

    So I can now advance my D2 character (still untouched) to lvl 22.5. I'll probably go play her for a bit now.
     
  11. SabreCat

    SabreCat IncGamers Member

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    It shouldn't be quite that harsh. Your fail rate is based on your level, your skill in that spell class, your armor (worse for metal, a bonus for a robe), and the level of the spell. So if you can't cast a given spell, try leveling up, or training the spell class by casting lower-level spells of the class and/or removing metal armor to practice. When you've hit a new skill plateau, you'll see "you feel more confident in your spell-casting skills" or something to that effect, and you can then use the #enhance command to raise your skill level. Once you're more skilled, you should be able to absorb the penalties from some metal armor.
     
  12. Vildecor

    Vildecor IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, that makes sense. I was just kind of perturbed that a level one divination spell (a branch a ranger can enhance) had a 100% fail rate...don't remember my level...was probably only down to DLvl 5 or 6, so perhaps my level wasn't high enough.
     
  13. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo IncGamers Member

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    I'm definitely in on this tourney. :thumbsup:

    In the last thread I mentioned that I'd play a Ranger, and I did last night. I got the sixth attempt going very well - she's at dlvl14 and has completed the quest, picking up the quest reward bow (sweet). But now I see that this is an "easy" character, so I'll start over with a tough one.

    I'm going with the Tourist, as it seems to be rated as the toughest - based on being able to go with any D2 build. I'll restart my HCL/Sept hammerdin again in parallel.

    A couple questions on the rules:

    1) You may want to reconsider basing D2 levels as 2.5x hethack dungeon level. It's a fairly simple matter to go very deep into the nethack dungeon very quickly (pickaxe would do) - especially mid game, once you get a character going well. Maybe you should use experience level - and then maybe 3x would be a better multiple. Just a thought.

    2) Completing Sokoban is rewarded too well - if you are referring to the optional quest that you get somewhere around dungeon level 8-10. I easily complete this every game where I reach that level. Once you figure out the patterns, it's not hard at all.

    Anyway, I'm off to don my Hawaiian Shirt :teeth:
     
  14. SabreCat

    SabreCat IncGamers Member

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    Oof. Either I'm terribly rusty, or the Caveman is a more difficult class than I'd thought. Both, most likely; the Caveman is built like a tank but doesn't have the equipment to act like one. Best game thus far (#7) has only been Dlvl 8, where a duo of nymphs in Minetown kept stealing my gear until I was weaponless before waves of stone giants (all that leveling up trying to chase down the bloody 'n'...).

    Finding lots of magic lamps--all cursed. And I die before I get the means to uncurse them. Sigh. Maybe I should play a little of the DII side of my game... but for now, back to essays.

    Mugh the Caveman, 22926 points, dungeon level 8
    Totus the Poisonmancer, Level 1 (max 20), Act I Normal (Rogue Encampment)
     
  15. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    AE,

    The dungeon level times 2.5 was instiuted to be newbie friendly. Sure, if you decide to go purely for descent depth it wouldn't be hard to get down to level 30 or so with a pick-axe, and that'd tide your diablo II character over well for a long while. But for the honest player, it's a fair restriction. I want this tournament to remain newbie friendly, otherwise we won't have enough players :)

    As for Sokoban... I find it quite difficult. But fair enough, I'll change it to... instead of completing Sokoban, completing the quest. For some classes, the quest is insanely hard (monk, for one) so that should be fair enough.

    As for my Tourist exploits... the actual score is on my laptop, but it was somewhere in the region of 16500. I had mjollnier (sp? probably) and died when a orc shamam zapped a wand of create monster and filled up the room. I had no way to escape.

    I probably won't play diablo II for this tournament, I'll be content with seeing how my nethack scores measure up with everyone else's. Good luck everyone!

    flamearrows
     
  16. loveratbaby

    loveratbaby IncGamers Member

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    OMG freaky! I just started playing this for the first time like 3 days ago. I am finding it VERY difficult - well not the gameplay but remembering what everything does yada yada its actually really frustrating =P Hmmm to enter or not to enter this is the question life is a tad ******** atm I will follow up later. really nice idea for a tourney tho =)
     
  17. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    First Score Update​

    Alterego -
    Tourist - Highest score: 0 Depth of Descent: 1
    Hammerdin - lvl 1, Rogue Encampment

    Flamearrows -
    Tourist (Elbereth) - Highest Score: ~16500 Depth of Descent: 7
    Azrael the Hammerdin - lvl 11, Stony Field (max lvl 17.5)

    Sabrecat -
    Caveman (Mugh) - Highest score: 22926 Depth of Descent: 8
    Totus the Poisonmancer - lvl 1, Rogue Encampment (max lvl 20)

    Vildecor -
    Ranger (Artemis) - Highest score: 26073 Depth of Descent: 9
    Sarina the Glass Cannon Magazon: lvl 1, Rogue Encampment (max lvl 22.5)

    Since I started my diablo 2 character, I'm clearly ranked number one in that category :) Vildecor leads the way in the nethack catagory.

    AE - I didn't remember reading that you were starting a hammerdin as well... too late now I guess

    We need more players for this to be a real tournament! loverat, consider joining ;)

    flamearrows
     
  18. SabreCat

    SabreCat IncGamers Member

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    Gah. Yet Another Stupid Death, here.

    35644 Mugh 11-Cav-Hum-Fem-Law died in The Gnomish Mines on level 7 [max 10]. Killed by a priestess of Ishtar, while helpless.

    Was doing pretty dang well, slaying beasties of considerable might using an enchanted trident. I'd just killed a gray dragon--I think something must have transformed into it from a poly trap, no way it should have shown up this early otherwise--that dropped scales, so I'd headed back to Minetown to shuffle around my armor a bit. I went into the temple, which though not co-aligned I thought would have been fairly safe... but a dwarf tunnelled through the wall and let in a soldier ant while I was changing suits of armor. I was within a quarter of my HPs by the time I was finished disrobing. Desperate, I fired a wand of sleep. It got the soldier ant, great, but also ricocheted far enough to hit the priestess of the temple, who got angry. In the next round I was blinded and paralyzed, then kicked to death.

    Ah well, at least I'm starting to remember my skills overall, I think. I managed to solve Sokoban this time, albeit clumsily (had to break a couple boulders). Perhaps next game will be as fruitful... this character did leave bones... ^_^

    (Also got my DII character started, but nothing interesting there yet. Just cleared Den of Evil, 's all.)

    Mugh the Caveman, 35644 points, dungeon level 10
    Totus the Poisonmancer, Level 6 (max 25), Act I Normal (headed to Cold Plains)


    EDIT: For your enjoyment, an amusing message sequence from an earlier game.

    "You suddenly fall asleep! You feel slightly confused. You can't seem to think straight. You feel incredibly sick. You suddenly vomit! You feel a bit steadier now. You feel less confused now. You wake up."
     
  19. Vildecor

    Vildecor IncGamers Member

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    Haven't gotten a character to descend futher than before in Nethack, but I have been working on my D2 character:

    Sarina, Lvl 10 Mageazon, Act I N, rescued Cain

    Decided to change my Nethack race to human, perhaps better suited to taking hits from baddies. Plus they start with a cape of displacement. :thumbsup:

    Also, Flamearrows, forgot to put lemon up on the standings. Thought I'd point that out.
     
  20. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    Nethack, holy crap!

    I think I played this once when I was 9. Ouch, does that mean I'm old?

    Having no idea what any of the controls are, I wandered a bit and killed every letter of the alphabet.

    Frustrated with simply killing things, as I had no real idea of the benefits of slaying "lichen" and toting their corpses, I promptly discovered the command that lets me EAT THINGS.

    OH BOY!!!

    I promptly ate every item in my inventory, and choked to death on a short sword, or a hyena, or something equally inedible.

    Not the honorable death of a samurai, mind you.

    If I can decipher the pages of Nethack's so-called "help", I'll join the tourney in the interests of old school gaming. Until then, good luck everyone, and don't eat your weapons.

    GG
     

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