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Diablo 3 Needs Higher Torment Difficulty Levels?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Flux, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Flux Submitted a news story

    Diablo 3 Needs Higher Torment Difficulty Levels?

    [caption id="attachment_382131" align="alignright" width="208"][​IMG] Not this kind of Torment...[/caption]I've spent my play time over the past month+ on the PTR, playing softcore characters (Season Two testing), most of which very quickly got into super gear thanks to the +2000% drop rate community buff. With my Monk and DH comfortably about to handle GR40+, I've become very aware of an issue I didn't really notice playing my hardcore characters on live... WTF is with Torment 6 as the highest difficulty level?

    My best hardcore chars on live can do Greater Rift 30+, and the limiting factor there is not fear of death, but killing speed. Those hardcore chars are geared with a ton of toughness and thus don't have the killing power to lawnmower over the enemies rapidly enough to exceed GR32 or so. Playing softcore characters on the PTR is a very different story, and especially playing my DH, Torment6 just seems ridiculous.

    Each Torment level the monster hit points and damage scale up about the equivalent of 3 GR levels, so T4 = GR19, T5 = GR22, and T6 = GR25. Continuing that progression, T7 would be around GR 28, T8 = GR31, T9 = GR34, T10 = GR37, T11 = GR40, T12 = GR43, T13 = GR46, T14 = GR47, etc.

    If you're not geared that well (yet) imagine thusly: consider that a character who can clear GR40 is basically doing Torment 11, which is roughly as easy as a GR25 character doing T1. Or a Torment 1 character playing on Normal difficulty level. It's not exactly the same since monsters deal much higher damage on the higher levels; my PTR DH can one-shot trash mobs and kills most elites in under 5s with a couple of Sentries adding their MS to hers, but she's not immortal (as a T6 char would feel playing on T1) and can die in a couple of seconds of Arcane Beams or by standing in a Molten pack.

    That said, T6 is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy. Absurdly so. The whole game, outside of GR40 runs, feels pretty much like normal split farming in the old days, where I mostly just worry about movement speed, since everything dies as fast as I can shoot it. If I even bother to slow down long enough to do so. It's not super-rewarding, but that's sort of the point, since I think it's weird that the highest difficulty level in the game (other than Grifts) is basically a run-through for any char with top end gear.

    Do you guys agree? Do you think higher levels of Torment are needed? Desired? Personally, I want them. I can find challenge in GRifts, but those feel sort of pointless to me once I've got my LGems upgraded, and I enjoy doing normal Rifts and even Bounties, where gold drops, Treasure Goblins exist and chests exist, etc, and the whole game isn't just a 15m rush against the clock. I think there's fun to be had in grinding content above your character's power level, where you have to struggle to survive and endure long battles against tough opponents, and once you've got good gear that's not possible in Reaper of Souls. Either you god mode your way through T6, or you play Grifts that aren't hard enough to be challenging, since a high toughness grinding type character can't get keys high enough to get into a Grift that's challenging.

    Diablo 3 Needs Higher Torment Difficulty Levels?

    [poll id="188"]​


    BTW, this isn't an article to brainstorm the Torment changes, but when/if the devs add more Torment levels I think they should scale up more dramatically. Instead of just 3 GRs per Torment, they should jump 5 or 6 or 8. You don't need such precision per increase, and players are so far above T6 now that the numbers would get silly-high. Projecting with the current progression, the hypothetical T12 would be lower than the Grifts some players are currently clearing solo, and I think there should be a non-GR difficulty level that's higher than anyone can fly through in 15 minutes. Ideally the devs would call T7+ by some other name, to make clear the difficulty jump was increasing. Mega-Torment! Or something...
    Continue reading the Original Story
     
  2. Erevos

    Erevos IncGamers Member

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    Diablo 3 needs rebalancing, needs harder champ packs, needs separation of skill dmg and weapon dmg, needs more affixes, needs maps variety, needs skills progression.

    what is the need of T1 to T6? make one Torment a truly hard Torment.

    Characters are so flat and similar, the only differences between Barbs & Crusaders are the shield bonus, both have a jump skill, both have summon skill, both have a cleave type skill, both have a charge skill. DH has pets, WD has pets, Crusader has aura's Monks too.

    In D2 every char is realy unique its so simple.
     
  3. BaronScarpia

    BaronScarpia IncGamers Member

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    I would like more "torments", with better rewards. Imo, rewards on T6 solo rifts are kinda terrible. Higher torment with solo rewards closer to T6 groups are the way to go.

    I tested with my DH and, imo, T6 on PTR is so boring...
     
  4. Charons

    Charons Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    no. i do not want more torment levels.

    I'd much prefer them add something else. A difficulty that scales to the groups damage/toughness levels. That would do the trick.
     
  5. mortuus

    mortuus Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    yeah i do want more torment levels, i play mostly that and rifts and its way too easy.. and greater rifts would be fun but the getting the damn keys and finding a group in public is just a pain and hardly worth the time...
     
  6. Carlyle

    Carlyle IncGamers Member

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    Not sure what the gain from another set of additional torment levels is supposed to be when ten (10!) different existing difficulties are already considered insufficient. A 'system' which just starts serially numbering its components half way through could easily be viewed as enough of a heaped mess as it is.

    While I'd agree that Torment VI gets standard –relatively– quickly, that's just how it is, there simply isn't more to this game. Steamrolling the game at the highest difficulty? Well, good for you, well done, you've finished D3 unless you want to re-run it another 20 hijillion times with a different character class or, even more mindless: try the totally random endless-mode.

    Much to its own distadvantage, D3 has been a game which purely relied on numerical tuning of its reward system, its randomization and its difficulty scaling all along. Early on, during pre-release, they got me pretty excited about an ambiguous statement which made it seem like D3's enemy AI would become more potent and unlock new monster abilities over the course of increasing difficulty modes, which sadly turned out to be nothing more than "elites gain 1 affix per level". Simply adding Torment VII to MLXXVIII... and beyond through interpolation of existing health and damage values would just represent another loveless makeshift approach (hello, ancient legendary items!). So no, thanks to that.

    If more elaborate and playful mechanics aren't in the cards in order to make difficulty an interesting aspect of the game, I personally consider the old Magic Find system – where you sacrifice as much of your gear/character power for the sake of a greed-driven tertiary stat as your current idividual character/skill setup/playstyle allows you while still being barely able to survive – a far more elegant and vastly superior concept to whatever meaningless granularity of numerically scaled challenge D3 came up with so far.
     
    el shendee likes this.
  7. Catastrophe

    Catastrophe IncGamers Member

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    This is going to sound crazy, but I blame the lack of trading and loot 2.0 for making the game this easy.

    Premise: with the strongest gear in the game you're geared to fight the strongest monsters in the game.

    There are only 4 gear tiers in D3: random yellow junk, mismatched legs, crafted sets, and your cookie cutter BiS gear. For most classes the 4th tier is a six piece set but for Crusaders it is a specific combination of legs. Whatever.

    Most item slots in D3 are fixed. You rings will be SOJ, Unity, or RRoG. Your amulet is CHD, socket, and +2 primaries. Your belt might not be a Witching Hour but you surely wish it was. The rest of your slots have one choice, really.

    With the cranked up leg rate and the high gambling odds assembling your 6 piece set has never been easier. And when you get there you're T6 by definition. There is no "T3 gear" or "Master gear" since the build-enabling powers on your legs are so enabling. (Powerful.) And with loot 2.0 I've never spent less time gearing up with BiS. It's easier now than it ever was.

    For difficulty to return they'd have to rebalance the game to make my premise false. The original D3 had level 63 monsters while we were capped at 60. And that was hard! I liked that but the majority didn't.
     
  8. PrvtPiLe

    PrvtPiLe IncGamers Member

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    I wouldn't mind either way if they added more torments or didn't. I doubt they will, due to the reason Travis (?) gave in one of your (I think) interviews, Flux. IIRC he said something about how they like the 'relaxed' atmosphere farming T6 gives (when you're fully geared) compared to pushing higher level GRifts. And personally I don't mind that either. Blitzing through T6 rifts has its own kind of charm, and allows for a greater variety of builds - remember, if there was a T11 then we'd be forced even more than we are now into those cookie-cutter builds. At least now I can kind of use a non-standard build and still farm the highest content.

    as an aside, I think this is another reason they won't add more Torments - it gives the appearance that there's more balance than there actually is.
     
  9. Erevos

    Erevos IncGamers Member

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    never thought i would but im missing the Infermo days to be honest, Inferno with the today loot system would have been better from all this torment thing.
     
  10. el shendee

    el shendee IncGamers Member

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    Exactly. And back then, people complained about how hard it was to build a character strong enough to survive it (without AH, at least). Blizzard just gave us exactly what we asked for, and now we complain again because we don't like it either.

    What will we do if Blizzard gives us more Torment levels? Either complain about how hard they're, or get ancient legendaries until we're able to efforlessly kill anything there, and then complain again that they're too easy.

    And meanwhile, anyone who doesn't have the time to grind for those super items will stick at one of the lower Torment levels and keep wondering what's the need for all those difficulty levels.

    Carlyle already explained it far better that I could do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2014
  11. grandmaster

    grandmaster IncGamers Member

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    How about Diablo IV instead ?
     
  12. Grishok

    Grishok IncGamers Member

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    You will always be limited by toughness as well in high GR. When you fail a GR because damage is too low, you shift toughness to damage and voila, it will become dangerous ;-)

    PS T7-T10 would be nice.
     
  13. dezzo

    dezzo IncGamers Member

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    I fail to see the point of "higher torment levels" when the game already has failed game design in the form of unavoidable damage, (still) buggy integrated damage system and a bunch of pointless skills and legendaries.

    greater rift level 50 is your "higher torment level". go play that k?
     
  14. Grishok

    Grishok IncGamers Member

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    Out of all the possible user names you come up with dicksausage? />.<\
     
  15. Grishok

    Grishok IncGamers Member

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    Is that you Steven? :)
     
  16. ADest

    ADest IncGamers Member

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    No, Blizzard most certainly DID NOT "give us what we asked for." There were dozens & dozens of threads the first year on the D3 Forums with all sorts of ideas and suggestions for fixing D3. Blizz largely ignored the finer points in favor of pulling the AH (and replacing it with nothing) & gave us THEIR version of what we asked for... Read: a watered down, bug ridden, kindergarden version of what was asked for.
     
  17. HFDOH

    HFDOH IncGamers Member

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    højere than T6 I do not know about a really good idea, I'm para lvl 573-575 and might not it the world's best gearmed my DH but looks quite often other players and at the same lvl are nailed down at T6, before we had AH and had a chance to get better gear now plays in we days without good drops, there are many more drops now but usually bad and worthless, do not quite understand all of them saying how easy it is to cruise through T6, people become opinionated slaughtered . Before the AH there was a chance to acquire something super gear and you'll forget it's not all have time for farms 7-24, the exemplary mention that I still use Innas pants on my DH when I advanced until not found something or could crafting something that gives me more dmg, Vitaly or toughnes for that matter. if you want noisier T-lvls reintroduce AH or another form of trade forum. think it's getting really want higher lvls than T6 and it is probably the same who wanted AH abolished. I thought the old D2 was more balanced in gear and difficulty level terms
     
  18. el shendee

    el shendee IncGamers Member

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    Blizzard may have made many mistakes when implementing features, but that doesn't mean they weren't asked for...

    You mention the Auction House, and how Blizzard ignored suggestions to improve it... Most people (or, at least, the most vocal fanbase) were more than happy when it was completely scrapped:

    http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/diablo-3-auction-house-closing

    In the poll here about the auction house closing, there was an overwhelming victory of the "Strongly agree. Good riddance to the AH." option, and lots of the comments are in that style. That was BEFORE we saw Blizzard's alternative. So yes, the hatred towards the AH was that high. Blizzard could have tried to repair it (that's what I personally would have liked), but people just wouldn't have stopped complaining until it was removed.
     
  19. Steven Hazani

    Steven Hazani IncGamers Member

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    I would never advocate GRs in their current failed form.
     
  20. Steven Hazani

    Steven Hazani IncGamers Member

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    I'm pure solo and I think the same thing. It actually required a lot of time before he did, before that he was a hyper casual sub T6.
     

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