DH: Vault vs. Smoke Screen... a cautionary tale.

Flux

Administrator
I much prefer Vault, 99% of the time. I love the movement, I love the speed. It costs lots less Discipline so you can use it more often. It's great for tactics, to reposition yourself during combat, to move far enough to shoot around a corner, etc. And I doubt people playing softcore every use Smoke Screen.

In D3v1 I always used SS on my HC DHs, since the game was a lot harder and the DH was squishier. In d3v2 the DH seems stout enough to do with Vault all the time. Plus it breaks Jailer now (it did not, long ago), so really the only thing Vault is an issue for is Frozen or Arcane or Desecrator type stuff, if you get trapped and can't Vault away. But that pretty much requires Waller to trap you in a corner.

So...



I was cruising along in T1, hadn't drunk a potion in multiple games, hadn't been below 50% hps, etc. No worries. And then I got to this corner and walls appeared wedging me into that corner, with a Frozen bomb right beside them, before I even saw any of the champions.

Half a second later Desecrator is under my feet, half a dozen more frozen balls appear, and I'm blue and helpless. Half a second later the Champs were around the corner and winding up their hammers. And I'm still frozen and walled in. And half a second later, that was that.

Vault was of no use. Even if I'd been immune to freezing, I'd still have been killed by the desecrator and hammer time. Even if I'd been able to break the waller, I couldn't since I was frozen and would have died. But if I'd had SS... no problem. Click it before the frozen goes off, click it again to avoid the hammer time, then retreat to buy some space. I'd have killed them quickly then; the only danger was being trapped and unable to avoid their huge hits. (The irony is I could have carried SS on the 6th slot. I was doing Sentry there just for the fun of a bit extra damage. Didn't need it and really I'm just waiting on RoS to bring in Vengeance for that slot in my build.)

Bear this in mind as you're Vaulting around, carefree and sure you'll be fine without SS. You probably will, 99.99% of the time. But there's that once in a very long while when unlucky lands on you with both feet, and SS will save you while Vault will not. (The legendary property with "auto-cast SS if you drop below 15% hps" would have saved me also, but I've never seen that one yet in D3v2, after I had it on a Torment-only item set and a leg cloak in RoS.)
 

Grishok

Diabloii.Net Member
RIP!

I really echo your sentiments, I very rarely use SS but I've always kept it on my bar sure it will save my life a few times. I worry the most about a vortex into molten explosions JUST as they go boom...

The best rune I find hard to pick. Since 14 disc is alot when I have 30, I've selected the no disc rune so SS is alwals available even if I don't have disc. I'll probably need 2 SS the next time, you'll see :D
 

HardRock

Diabloii.Net Member
Rest in peace Immortina the 6th!

Honestly, I think it's high time the devs fixed Waller, for real this time. Even in wide open spaces the Elites place it exactly on my character, so it essentially serves as a more spammable Jailer that you can't Vault out of.

As for the choice between Vault and Smoke Screen, like you Flux I usually roll with Vault. I could easily replace my Bat Companion with SS if I wanted to, but I would never replace Vault, it's just too good to pass up in so many ways. At least that's what I thought until recently, before I started experimenting with the Displace rune of Evasive Fire. With smart positioning it can easily replace Vault in combat scenarios, but of course you still lose your mobility between enemy groups.
 

Young

Diabloii.Net Member
waller is especially bad now because the champ packs now have 5 members... RIP Flux.

the problem with waller is that it blocks your attacks, so even had you not been frozen you wouldn't be able to sustain back against the damage. If you play with out smoke screen, it's good to stack some serious life per second (brooding, items, aid station) to help against CC situations.
 

Aahzmadius

Diabloii.Net Member
Good tip, especially for someone like me who still doesn't have much experience with the DH. Just last night I removed SS since I was never using it. Not sure I'll add it back at this time, though, since I tend to group with high-damage Witch Doctors and a barb. Safety in Numbers is a powerful passive. :)
 

AlexanderBarin

Clan Officer - US East Hardcore
Ouch. Thanks for the warning, I was definitely going to go full dps/speed build with my DH.

What difficulty was this?
 

HardRock

Diabloii.Net Member
Torment 1, it's at the top-right of his screenshot. Up until Hard or Expert you can go full DPS and still have enough Toughness, but above that defense should become a priority as well.
 

TopHatCat64

Diabloii.Net Member
Sucks that grenades are blocked by walls, hell I should be able to throw them over :p
Grenades should definitely go over walls. If the WD can throw a jar of spiders over a wall, why can't a DH throw a grenade over it? It's the same exact motion.
 

tougeznut

Diabloii.Net Member
They can go over walls, and that's one of the only reasons I'll use them :)

sent from my GalaxySIII
 

tougeznut

Diabloii.Net Member
The one I used most often was cluster. I can test them all again this afternoon and let you know.

sent from my GalaxySIII
 

Malevolant

Diabloii.Net Member
(The legendary property with "auto-cast SS if you drop below 15% hps" would have saved me also, but I've never seen that one yet in D3v2, after I had it on a Torment-only item set and a leg cloak in RoS.)
Just FYI, I found a cloak with this today.
 

Leblue

Diabloii.Net Member
Certainly some helpful advice for newer DHs. After losing 11 before 2.0, this feels much better but I've had numerous situations where SS has saved me and I'm glad I run both at the moment. Hoping to get a Danetta's Spite to go with my revenge so that Vault no longer shares disc with SS.
 

tougeznut

Diabloii.Net Member
Regarding grenades: never mind, they don't go over walls. I swear they did before 2.0 and I assumed they still would.

Tested out each rune, and they'd just blow up at the wall.

sent from my GalaxySIII
 

Steven Hazani

Diabloii.Net Member
I think there's more to it than just Vault vs SS. It really depends on how tanky you are, the more tanky the less you need invincibility (and vice versa). Having stun and super high speed on call helps as well.

Nothing says fun like going Soviet Russia "....Demon Hunter charge Savage Beast!"

That being said wall is the worst, first thing I'm doing in RoS is hotbarring some Kulle Aid.
 

TheChosenOne NL

Diabloii.Net Member
Even SS won't just save you from wallers. costs/cooldown etc. You might stay alive longer but prob still could die. Best bet is when you see wallers to vault away to a better location, get them (elites seperate or just the elites away from more monsters) alone or tp out.

Plus vault can save you from frozen and SS can't? Or does it break the freeze?
 
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