Latest Diablo 3 News
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

DH vault overpowered?

Discussion in 'Demon Hunter' started by DrZoidberg, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. DrZoidberg

    DrZoidberg Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    20
    DH vault overpowered?

    From what i have heard vault is a somewhat overpowered skill right now seeing as how you can pass through enemies. It seems too have a short delay if any at all? That would make it a lot like d2's teleport if that's the case because you can just run by all the monsters. I realize she needs this skill to keep the hit and run type tactic, otherwise it would take away from her character type. Do you guys think a cooldown or longer cooldown(if she has one) would solve this?
     
  2. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,381
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    121
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    Have you considered mana cost?

    Right now, she uses the WD's mana and can keep it up. In gameplay, I'd imagine it'd be like a abrb leaping or a wiz teleporting: you can, but you won't be able to spam it.



    If you can do it with little cost, then it's OP. Otherwise, it's an escape skill. She won't vault into a mob, and likely can't do it past doors and pits.
     
  3. DrZoidberg

    DrZoidberg Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    Actually never really considered mana cost or w.e it is the dh will use. My main concern was with rushing through mobs and rushing acts, I'm sure some people liked rushing but i did not. She could rush past mobs kill a couple things get mana and rush some more.(I'm sure mana will be changed though or i hope so anyway)
     
  4. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,381
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    121
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    That's part of the problem here. We don't know if she also has a "leech" style mana system.

    We also don't know how well she can keep vaulting through mobs. For all we know, it could suffer a defense penalty like Charge did. Block (if she has any) is cut to a third and then defense = 0.

    She'll get hit left and right, and she isn't the tank type.




    Speed and angles can avoid them for the most part, but it's only a matter of time she hits something that won't move (a big enemy perhaps?) or get hit too hard.
     
  5. Flux

    Flux Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,710
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    472
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    It was way OP in the blizzcon demo. Could do 4 or 5 of them in rapid succession, moving across 2 or 3 screens worth of monsters in like 1 second, for zero damage taken.

    Then again, Entangling Shot and Molten Arrow were way OP also. And so were most of the Monks' skills last year, when he was the new, "show off all the godly stuff" character. That's just how Bliz rolls them in the demos, it seems.

    For the final game, Vault would be "fixed" pretty easily, just by giving it a cooldown similar to teleport or spirit walk. That would probably be too harsh, since it's easy to vault and hit a corner or a barrel or something and stop cold, potentially right in the middle of a dozen monsters. If you couldn't vault a 2nd time to get out you'd die a lot on one mis-vault.

    So maybe they could allow you to use it twice in a row before the cooldown hit, or give it a very high resource cost, or add a high chance for monsters to do damage when you vault through them. Also consider that Vault had multiple skill points in it, increasing the range. It would travel much less distance with just 1 point, making it far less OP.
     
  6. Glass

    Glass Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    Best way to make people learn not to mis-vault :evil:


     
  7. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,381
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    121
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    It worked when not doing a long WW in Chaos Sanc.:whistling:
     
  8. DrZoidberg

    DrZoidberg Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    I like Sass and Flux idea of taking additional damage or having lower def while in the rolling stage of the skill, but would you really trust rolling a glass cannon(without def or taking more damage) through a mob? Did you get hit at all while rolling flux? The 2 vaults in a row sounds more promising to me.
     
  9. Flux

    Flux Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,710
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    472
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    I don't think they even swung while in the vault. it went very quickly and I think maybe the DH was not targetable while in it. Probably it works like teleport, in terms of how the monsters processed it. At least in the demo.

    That said, the monsters had low to/hit and slow reflexes, in most cases in the demo. It was made pretty easy. I had a few times with DH and Wiz, when going against bosses or Champions with Vortex, when I was sure I'd die, and would certainly have died with a comparable D2 char. But didn't, since I was able to shoot/cast at point blank range for a few seconds, even when surrounded.

    But the real game will have much more dangerous monsters, etc. So improbable survival in the demo isn't necessarily a useful guide for long term.
     
  10. AtomicJ

    AtomicJ Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    I was thinking the same thing about Vault. If they would just cut down on the distance, say by half or so, I think it would make a world of difference.

    Also, get rid of the "dark magic" effect. Just make it a normal acrobatic flip. :\
     
  11. Flux

    Flux Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,710
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    472
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    Vault was level 5 in the demo. More points add distance to it, as can be seen in the description, which is something like, "Tumble acrobatically X feet."

    How this might be modified or balanced is addressed, sort of, in the big movement skills thread in the main d3 forum.



     
  12. konfeta

    konfeta Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    5,336
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    256
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    Heh. Vault with 20 points in it must be funnay.
     
  13. The Rockman

    The Rockman Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    If 5 points = 1/2 a Screen per vault (going by Flux post) then 20 points = 2 screens per Vault *wooshing noise as a Demon hunter Tumbles by at supersonic speed* what was that?
     
  14. blackbisket

    blackbisket Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    57
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    Flux was their a rune slot under vault or do you know?
     
  15. The Rockman

    The Rockman Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    blackbisket all non passive skills will take a rune once released (this will include vault). But the monk and DH don't have any Rune Slots in the Blizzcon Build due to that part not being done yet.
     
  16. Flux

    Flux Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,710
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    472
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    That's something I mentioned on the movement skills thread. I'll quote me, because me.

    The way the skill was set for the Blizzcon demo doesn't tell us much about the final game, but I can't see 15 or 20 skill points just for more distance. That would be pretty big diminishing returns, when you're looking at a point for just another yard. But other effects, like +damage, lower cost, confuse/stun monsters, decreased cool down, etc... seem like rune bonuses.

    So what would more points in vault do to make them worth spending, without seeming like a cheesy rip off for just a tiny bit more distance? (I bet this is the sort of question the D3 team chokes on, too.)



     
  17. blackbisket

    blackbisket Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    57
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    Maybe they will cap it at 5 pts and let runes go to work after that.
     
  18. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,381
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    121
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    They still need an incentive to stat it past a one point wonder.



    From just using the vault effect, it is a one pointer. More points needs to have a secondary effect, or more, to give reason to put points in it. Past that, runes can spice it up, but if that happens even at 1 point, you run into the same problem.


    level req before a rune can be used? :O
     
  19. TheThirdMan

    TheThirdMan Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    I would think there would have to be lvl reqs on the runes. At least I hope there are.
     
  20. Flux

    Flux Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,710
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    472
    Re: DH vault overpowered?

    The way they showed runes in the panel at blizzcon, level 1-3 were normal, 4-5 were NM, and 6-7 were hell. In terms of when you'd potentially be finding them, and one assumes, using them. So I'm sure they'll have clvl reqs skewed along those lines.

    Something like 2, 5, 15, 25, 35, 40, 50, 55. You could use level 2 on the clvl 9 chars in the blizzcon demo, and they listed no clvl req, but that's just in the demo. who knows about the final game.
     

Share This Page