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Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by reyoo, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. reyoo

    reyoo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    I just read this amazing article detailing what happened with Duke Nukem Forever.

    Quite a few things stood out to me.

    But these words in particular...

    “When it’s doneâ€

    It was the response given by the developers of DNF, 3drelms whenever they were asked when the game will be done.

    Here is the article for those of you who are interested.

    http://digg.com/d31DUlr

    (its the digg link so you can help spread the story if you so chose)
     
  2. GoldenBird

    GoldenBird Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    Dang, I sure hope D3 doesn't end up like that xD
     
  3. mysticc

    mysticc Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    You can't compare the results of 3d realms with blizzard. Blizzard has a very good track record about releasing games "when its done". There have been games they did not release... like ghost and that warcraft adventure game... but their names were not "diablo 3" and were more side projects that they knew didn't live up to the standards of their brands. I honestly think this comparison has little basis in fact or is even similar by any stretch of the imagination.
     
  4. reyoo

    reyoo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    Its very similar don't use your "imagination". Just look at the facts and their motto.

    There are differences.(many of them)

    But there are marked similarities. (Your lying to yourself to say otherwise)


    Also, even though I posted this on the D3 forums the connection extends to any Blizzard property in development.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2009
  5. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    This thread is a good example of why context is important and why three words that apply to one gaming company may not necessarily apply to another.
     
  6. captain

    captain Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    I hope it doesn't happen like that either. I can definately see the similarities. The fact that I feel, due to their success, blizzard can take as long as they want and thew resources will be there. This is nothing to scare them into taking the leap and letting go. But at some point the bosses will say "Ok you spent X amount of money and Y amount of time. What do you have?" If they putts around too long they will be forced to scub the game because it won't recover the cost to make it as fast as the business wants. They will be forced to work on other projects. Its not fair to the fans. We put them in business and we'll continue to do so. I feel the developers expectations are too high for reality.
     
  7. reyoo

    reyoo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    I'm not saying that this is going to happen to D3.

    But it does give interesting insight into how a similar company functions you could just as easily compare other companies like valve.
     
  8. Qveasd

    Qveasd Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    "When it's done" reply origins to John Carmack I think. Worked for him quite well, I must say. :)
     
  9. Elly

    Elly Administrator

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    Thanks for sharing that reyoo. It was a very interesting read just from the point of a Duke Nukem player who was very much looking forward to DNF. All that cash and pedigree unbelievably didn't lead to continued success so I can see where you draw the similarities.



     
  10. razen

    razen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    I don't know the inside story of these gaming companies, maybe Elly or Flux can share some insights on the working of a Blizzard studio as you guys were granted access before?

    The article is certainly very interesting into the insights of people in this field. There is one doubt I must raise, these are all collected from observations of the workers. As my dad also ran a business, so I tend to look at things from a management perspective as well... are employees not at all at fault in this? Honestly, something just don't feel right. It doesn't matter if the boss just told you to add this and that... they added so much (Assuming), so where did it all go? Do they not have a story structure? I find this very confusing that they are pretty vague about "no end in sight."
     
  11. Qveasd

    Qveasd Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    Into the wastebin. What good are models and levels and 3D engine made 3 years ago, when the processor power and memory size had at least quadrupled in that time? They look outdated and crappy.


     
  12. Enigmers

    Enigmers Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    From what Blizzard is showing us of Diablo III, we can tell they're very far along, whereas with DNF they continually scrapped the entire project to start over, and from what I hear, numerous screenshots, gameplay videos, etc. were not actually in-game, but pre-rendered (I think that was the word). From the fact that Blizzard is showing D3 at Blizzcon and other game shows, we can tell that they most certainly are not faking it.
     
  13. raithe

    raithe Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    You mean like they did with Ghost? How about all the scrapped content in Diablo I? That game should have twice as big as it was. Oh yeah then there's this latest "content patch". When it's done...... right.


     
  14. Kallieon

    Kallieon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    Fortunately the official Blizz response is actually "When it's ready." which according to Ghostcrawler is very different. He explained some time ago that no matter what project they are working on, whether it be a patch an expansion pack or even a full game, that the developers never feel that it is ever truly complete. The most difficult part for them is often deciding when something is good enough to release.

    Edit: Found the quote.
    [BLUE="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16019952791&postId=163643340783&sid=1#124"]You have to understand that from our point of view there are always a thousand more things we'd like to do than we can actually get done. That doesn't contradict with "When it's ready." In fact, knowing when something is ready is a graceful art of deciding when you've done enough, because left to their own devices, Blizzard developers would keep honing and perfecting a product for years and never actually realease it. :) [/BLUE]
     
  15. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    Well obviously SC Ghost wasn't "done." And never will be, apparently. I saw/played it at Blizzcon in 2005, and it was fairly fun, from my limited console/FPS perspective. Blizzard, however, felt it wasn't as good as they wanted it to be, and they're rather eat the dev costs than put out a game they dn't feel measures up.

    Also consider that Ghost was being produced almost entirely outside of the company, by a hired dev firm, albeit one that Bliz was working closely with. Same with Warcraft Adventures, way back when. The only other bliz title so produced that I can think of: Hellfire, which they've since disowned entirely. I don't think they're going to be outsourcing production of smaller games and expansion packs in the future, with that track record.
     
  16. sectoid

    sectoid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    I don't think Blizzard won't fall from the same mistakes (although it may commit them) mainly because they don't care for graphics. And graphics is the area that more rapidly evolves for games.
     
  17. 0blique

    0blique Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    I don't think this will happen to Blizzard. DNF and ghost (I think) experienced at least a couple of engine changes, and hence pretty much had to be rewritten from the ground up. This is pretty disheartening to the developers (see the Wired article) and sets bad precedent; after all, if you've already restarted once, you're more likely to continuing restarting every time graphics and computing technology improves (ie. always).

    D3 doesn't look like this, it seems they've gotten the core engine locked down, and they're only adjusting the content and gameplay mechanics. At least, as far as we know anyway.
     
  18. Leugi

    Leugi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    It's the risk on everything... You start something, no one can assure you you'll finish that something (sadly enough this always happened to my homework)...

    But Blizzard finishes what they think is right when they think is the right time, the whole "when is done" doesn't mean they don't have a real release date set, but helps them if by any chance something has to change the release date...
     
  19. Qwink

    Qwink Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    You do seem to forget that the D3 was already pretty far in development by blizzard north but for some reason blizzard wasn't happy with the results and restarted from scratch. Also this game has been in development for 10 years now I think and it will not come out next year so that will give it at least 12 years of development time.
    The only difference I see is that blizzard will never run out of money with their massive earnings from WOW. Also I'm pretty convinced that D3 will eventually come out. The only question is when.. Lets hope D3 will not become a virtual reality game..
     
  20. Kiroptus

    Kiroptus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Development Time: DNF puts things into perspective.

    Quite a good read.


    DNF's situation is a very heartbreaking one. I played DN3D a lot in my childhood and it was a blast, no game was close to that for a long time and even nowdays I know I would still have a lot of fun playing it, despite being a 3d shooter with 2D sprites. The "Build engine" games were great, Shadow Warrior was very good and Blood is my favourite (NOTE: Blood had Jay Wilson as the game designer, who is now on Diablo 3).

    But still, I dont think it relates to Diablo 3's situation. In DNF the problem was an arms-race for the best technology avaliable when in Diablo 3 its about perfecting the game design: the gameplay, the itemzitation, the classes, etc... its a process that blizzard can afford to make and that the franchise really needs after the bad game design issues that plagued the sequel.

    Again, its very heartbreaking to see George Broussard lose so much, I dont like the guy I think he mismanaged way too much and got cocky with his resources but still, its a shame that your life's work gets screwed like this, I hope that he somehow manage to recover his franchise. Its quite easy to point fingers at him but in the end, its a life's work gone down the drain and that had a lot of potential.

    Still has little to do with Diablo 3's situation.
     

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