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Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Thyiad, May 8, 2008.

  1. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    Cyclone hits Myanmar

    The cyclone that hit Myanmar last Saturday resulted in lot of destruction, people killed, homes destroyed, infrastructure heavily damaged. Relief is only just being allowed to be delivered ... in spurts ... almost one week after the disaster.

    Can someone explain to me why if your country suffers a disaster like that, you aren't screaming for help rather than pratting around with visas.

    What am I missing here?

    If I was sat in the remains of my home, surrounded by dead bodies without food/water/shelter I wouldn't give a flying fig about the political leanings of the aid, I'd just want help.

    What is wrong with these people.
     
  2. Mcwhopper

    Mcwhopper IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    It's the same scenario as with the famines in Northern Korea.

    A dictatorship can never show it's weaknesses to it's populace.

    Admitting that they need help means adminitting that are neither omniscent nor omnipotent and that might convince the populace that a revolt might actually be succesfull.

    You could also argue that allowing foreign aid means allowing foreigners and foreign ideas to influence your populace which would give them even more reason for a revolt.
     
  3. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    You might feel differently if your country wasn't on the top of the food chain though.
     
  4. Bortaz

    Bortaz Banned

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    You trying to justify them letting their people suffer and die (while aid is sitting there waiting) by blaming it on their place on the "food chain", Donny?
     
  5. IntellectSucks

    IntellectSucks IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    What does this mean?


     
  6. Ikeren

    Ikeren IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    Essentially, the military dictators care less about their people than their appearance. Is it right? No. But that's the way it is.

    Frankly, it's cases like these that I approve of illegal, unapproved foreign aid.
     
  7. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    I hate to stereotype, but I also see the East Asian concept of "loss of face" very prevalent here. Sure, dictators are all about the show, but I have a creepy feeling it is more probable in this case, and somehow perhaps to some degree understood by the people (the acts on aversion of loss of face in general; perhaps not in this case, perhaps not in the case of the Myanmar Junta either).

    Do you also approve with the probable consequences of such an endeavour?



     
  8. Bortaz

    Bortaz Banned

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    If they were just worried about losing face, they'd not have announced that up to 100.000 of their citizens had perished. Would they?
     
  9. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    Perhaps that is why their estimate is much smaller? Maybe? Yes?

    Even if they'd go with international numbers, it's still about loss of face. I thought "I don't need your alms" was an American thing (at least as you in your quote in the other thread viewed American), I thought you'd understand. The corpses are cold already, it's not like accepting the international help brings them back. Sure, it might make the tally end up a lot smaller, but if you never let the help come through, your subjects will never know, and some will even thank you for doing what you did for them.



     
  10. Mcwhopper

    Mcwhopper IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    They can announce that 100000 people died. They can't announce that they can't deal with it.

    The first is an act of nature. The second is a sign of weakness.
     
  11. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    That announcement was made by an American. And notice how much larger it is in comparison to the first estimates we heard.



     
  12. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    Don't you think it would be seen as an act of weakness (as the people is looking for one, having tried to topple them for quite a while; yes, I am aware of the fact that there is an import factor in the attempted saffron revolution, even so, the distaste for the regime seems genuine enough) to acknowledge their inability to deal with the disaster?

    Yes, I agree with both Thyiad and, if I read you correctly, you, in that it expounds the suffering of the innocent people. However, a regime like that of Shwen will have one aim before all else: to hold on to power. Everything else comes after it.



     
  13. Bortaz

    Bortaz Banned

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    Ah, I see. How many did the junta announce?



     
  14. Mcwhopper

    Mcwhopper IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    You did read what I wrote correctly. I can go even further and say I despise all junta esque regimes no matter in what country they are located, but that might just be hopping on the band wagon.

    What I wrote though was exactly what you say : It's seen as a sign of weakness, when the government says they can't deal with the disaster. Information is censored in Myanmar, only if the government allows it will information about their failure reach the masses. (That might not be entirely true ofcourse, information always tends to find their way to people what ever the circumstances).
     
  15. Sokar Rostau

    Sokar Rostau IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    In the wake of the 2004 tsunami the government of Burma refused all foreign aid, in this case they actually called for it. It isn't a matter of them refusing aid it is a matter of them not relaxing other laws to make the arrival of said aid easier and in a timely fashion. The Burmese government is basically saying "We want your help, but we have rules for allowing foreigners into the country and we are not going to relax them."

    I saw somewhere today that the UN is considering invoking special powers that will allow them to get aid in there without having to go through the Burmese government at all.
     
  16. Mcwhopper

    Mcwhopper IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    If they do that : They might have next war on their hands. I dont think Birmanese Government will roll over without a fight.

    There aint enouhg oil there to risk that for the UN.
     
  17. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    Valid points about face-saving - similarities to the Kursk I think - but I have to question the rest of the world who can stand by and let people die because of the idiocy of the government.

    Larger/more advanced/richer/pick your term countries must have enough recent personal experience of disaster (Katrina, fires, WTC) to realize how much difference fast effective assistance can make.

    It is interesting watching reporters pushing the "aid isn't getting anywhere" story, while the aid agencies are obviously trying to balance that message to put pressure on the government but without making it seem that it is useless to make any donations because they will just sit in a hanger across the region.

    It's times like these that make me want to shout "You are a :censored: bunch of :censored:" at politicians.
     
  18. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    Some article I read this morning had roughly 20k dead and 60k gone missing at the moment. They weren't at first tallying the "missing" number at all as far as I know. I might've read that on Wiki, which cites 22k dead and 60k missing from the junta.



     
  19. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    I mean that it's easy to say you're not worried about losing face when you have buckets of it.

    Patriotism makes people stupid.
     
  20. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Re: Delay in aid delivery. Please explain.

    There is some natural gas though, for what it's worth.



     

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