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Decisions, Decisions

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by pharaoh, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. pharaoh

    pharaoh IncGamers Member

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    Decisions, Decisions

    So, after a bunch of HF runs and ransacking of the rune stash, I'm sitting here with two Ber runes and a flawless sapphire. I can't make up my mind whether or not to cube them up to a Jah, so I thought I'd solicit some opinions here.

    Cubing them up: Gets me Jah, with which I could make Faith, Ice, or Dream. Faith is great by all accounts, and quite flexible. As a merc weapon, it powers up skellimancers, physical-based bowazons, and virtually any melee build except for Fanaticism paladins. As a non-merc weapon, it rivals- and likely tops- Windforce. Ice would be awesome for a FA zon, but I really think it's a bit overpriced, and I think I'll pass. Dream is likewise great, but it only really shines if you can get two of them; with just one, I doubt it would be worth it. Still, Ice or Dream could be fun on, say, a paladin, letting me run two elemental damage auras at once, or one plus Conviction.

    Not cubing them up: Let's face it, the biggest reason not to cube these up is Infinity. Sure, Chains of Honor and Beast are there, but I don't really have any builds that would benefit enough from CoH to really justify the expense, and Beast is really a niche weapon. Aside from the oskill Werebear, it's less flexible than Faith, since it can't sit on a merc. The upside is that it's half the cost of Faith (actually a little less, if you count the other runes). Now, while Infinity is great, using it precludes my most-used merc weapon, Insight. It would work wonders on a lightning sorcy, though, who could wield the Insight herself, or swap them around for better spell damage. It would also open up some niche builds, like a necromancer using mages or Vengeance (from Kingslayer).

    Anyways, anyone have any ideas? I'm kind of stuck on the choice here, and if I decide to cube them up, I can't back out later.
     
  2. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    If you can't decide, don't do anything. On the other hand, don't just sit on them forever. x).

    Faith: As you say, it's versatile.
    Ice: It would probably be our first here in the SPF. If I had a Jah (instead of 2 Bers), I'd make this. x).
    Dream: You would want two of them.

    Infinity: It's a little overrated. Still, it gets my vote.
    Chains of Honor: Fortitude is a better for damage, but CoH sits at or near the top of the list for almost every build imaginable.
    Beast: Ideal for a few builds. As with Faith and Ice, you can make some novelty builds as well.

    Unless you seriously want a Faith (or Ice/Dream I guess), you're probably better served having 2 Ber runes.
     
  3. nebux

    nebux IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    infinity or i'll ban you. but for me ice must be good.
     
  4. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    Here's my order of personal preference:

    Chains of Honor
    Infinity
    Beast
    Faith
    Ice

    I would scratch 'Dream' off immediately, because it's useless unless you have two. And if I had two Jahs, I would rather vouch for 'Enigma'. CoH is really a hit or miss thing. If you don't like it, don't make it.

    Congrats by the way. How many long hours of HF rushing did it take?
     
  5. maxgerin

    maxgerin IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    Nobody said it yet, so I'll be the first: GIEBS! :wink3:

    But I'll go with Infinity...or, Chains of Honor.
    I'm biased towards Infinity...cause I already have CoH. :grin:


    --maxgerin
     
  6. pharaoh

    pharaoh IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    Yeah, this is my current plan. I don't want to rush into anything, but they do feel like they're burning a hole in my pocket.. stash.. whatever. :/
    I'm definitely leaning towards either this or Infinity. Faith would be so awesome for my Kingslayer sorcy, but then, Infinity would push her damage through the roof too. Even Dream gets an honorable mention here, just because Lightning Mastery works so well with it. However, while Faith would be useful on my avenger, Infinity would be pretty much useless there.
    It does have style points, that's for sure. Still, the only build it really shines on is a Freezing Arrow amazon, and there are much cheaper choices available (Riphook and Melody, to name two).
    Yes, that's my reasoning too. One would be nice, but two means nearly triple the damage per hit/pulse. Coupled with the huge increase in radius, this is a good example about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.
    Mine too, I think.
    The problem with Fortitude is that most combat builds get plenty of off-weapon ED in the form of skills, and Fort's bonus is just additive in this case. Chains of Honor is great, but +2 skills isn't a game-breaker, and the resists can be made up elsewhere. It's just not worth it at this stage, at least not for me. There's also the fact that it's rather lacking in the defense department, and for casters, the lack of FCR often puts Skin of the Vipermagi on par with it (not to mention that SotV is a lot cheaper, and offers socketability).
    I've pretty much decided to pass on Beast. However, I'd forgotten one build it works well on: a skellimancer. No need to make a choice between Fanaticism on an Act I merc or Might on an Act II merc, when you can have both. Still, if there were a list of builds that don't need help from high-end runewords, a fishymancer would likely top the list.
    Hehe, you don't have the ban stick to back that up, nub. ;P
    Any reason Beast > Faith for you? I'd have thought Beast is more of a niche thing. Is it strictly a choice based on the fact that Faith is that much more expensive?
    Thanks.

    I couldn't give you an answer to the latter part. I did have a number of mid-high runes in my stash before I started. Besides, I don't count (minutes or runs) while doing runs; down that route lies madness. I just play until I get bored, tired, or RL rudely intrudes on my gaming time. ;)

    Thanks for the feedback, people. I'm leaning towards Infinity at this point, though I'm not planning on doing anything for a bit. I guess I'll have to start hunting for a good 4os polearm; most of mine in the past have been burned for Insight (though I can always unsocket).
     
  7. Darkoooo

    Darkoooo IncGamers Member

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    I don't see what's the deal about CoH. Vipermagi with Um has 50 all res, 30 FCR and 1 skill, while CoH has 65 all res (15 res difference), 2 all skills (1 skill difference), 8% DR. Rather costly armor is very similar to a simple Vipermagi. If CoH is an armor for melee chars, I'd use Fortitude which again is a cheaper option, anytime.

    That said, I'd go with Infinity.

    Edit: Beast is also a very good weapon for a Barb's off hand. I heard Fana aura doesn't help much the skeletons, I don't know though, cause I never tried:tongue:
     
  8. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    Nah, I'm mostly a Druid player, so right away you can see why I'm a bit more biased towards Beast. With Faith... I don't see myself using it much other than putting it on a Rogue. With a Bowzon, you still will get better damage by putting it on a Rogue and using Windforce for yourself.

    I personally like CoH because every bits help. Without Torches/Annis in SP, it's really hard to get perfect resistances (which I really like). The 15 resistance over SoVM saves you an Um socketed elsewhere, and lets you put in a Facet/MF/etc. instead. Most builds can make 100/105/125 FCR bps with some effort without the armor. As for the extra +1 Skill... every little bit helps. :p



     
  9. Naab

    Naab IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    +1

    10 chars.



     
  10. silospen

    silospen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    CoH kicks so much ***. You're just all jealous :)
     
  11. Flayed One

    Flayed One IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    My vote goes for Faith. Fanaticism can help sooo many builds become much more viable/better...

    Infinity would be a good choice too IMO.

    Chains of Honor would be somewhat of a waste though(IMO of course)... It's too overpriced, and won't help any build as much as the above two would.
     
  12. Skinhead On The MBTA

    Skinhead On The MBTA IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    Be unique and go for Wrath:

    Wrath
    4 Socket Missile Weapons
    Pul + Lum + Ber + Mal
    30% Chance To Cast Level 1 Decrepify On Striking
    5% Chance To Cast Level 10 Life Tap On Striking
    +375% Damage To Demons
    +100 To Attack Rating Against Demons
    +250-300% Damage To Undead (varies)
    Adds 85-120 Magic Damage
    Adds 41-240 Lightning Damage
    20% Chance of Crushing Blow
    Prevent Monster Heal
    +10 To Energy
    Cannot Be Frozen

    And since you mentioned Ice, I assume that you have a Lo as well. So you could get a Phoenix:

    Phoenix 4 Socket Weapons/Shields
    Vex + Vex + Lo + Jah
    Weapons
    100% Chance To Cast level 40 Blaze When You Level-up
    40% Chance To Cast Level 22 Firestorm On Striking
    Level 10-15 Redemption Aura When Equipped (varies)
    +350-400% Enhanced Damage (varies)
    Ignores Target's Defense
    14% Mana Stolen Per Hit
    -28% To Enemy Fire Resistance
    20% Deadly Strike
    +350-400 Defense Vs. Missile (varies)
    +15-21 Fire Absorb (varies)

    Shields
    100% Chance To Cast level 40 Blaze When You Level-up
    40% Chance To Cast Level 22 Firestorm On Striking
    Level 10-15 Redemption Aura When Equipped (varies)
    +350-400 Defense Vs. Missile (varies)
    +350-400% Enhanced Damage (varies)
    -28% To Enemy Fire Resistance
    +50 To Life
    +5% To Maximum Lightning Resist
    +10% To Maximum Fire Resist
    +15-21 Fire Absorb (varies)

    Seriously though, you can mark up another vote for Infinity.
     
  13. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    If you aren't sure. Wait. I kept my first Ber in a stash for a year, resisting the temptation to make Beast.

    Infinity ... yeah I love it and I'm working on a sept with it but it all comes down to your playstyle and preferences. Only you know what you prefer to play. So wait and see what builds you enjoy and how they could benefit from the different runewords.

    But make sure you back up your stashes so you don't lose it while you're waiting!
     
  14. Neksja

    Neksja IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    One opinion about Faith coming up:

    I have Faith, pretty nice roll (2/14) in a Ward Bow, so I can equip it on Act1 merc. I'll throw in a readout, so you can see the damage and stuff:
    Code:
    Faith
    Ward Bow
    'OhmJahLemEld'
    Two-Hand Damage: 86 to 227
    Required Dexterity: 146
    Required Strength: 72
    Required Level: 65
    Bow Class - Normal Attack Speed
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: **
    Fingerprint: 0x7a73f069
    +330% Enhanced Damage
    All Resistances +15
    +120 fire damage
    75% Extra Gold from Monsters
    Ignore Target Defense
    300% Bonus to Attack Rating
    75% Damage to Undead
    +50 to Attack Rating against Undead
    +2 to All Skill Levels
    Level 14 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped
    10% Reanimate As: Returned
    Socketed (4: 4 used)
    I've had that weapon from new year's eve IIRC. Two of my chars have used it, WF strafer and ranger sorc. Yep, haven't used it as much as I thought :undecided: But why I haven't used it?

    Lvl14 Fanaticism is not so much. It helps with IAS, AR and Damage. Damage increase is smallish, but IAS and AR can be very needed. Since there's no such thing as 9/2 (or whatever it was) strafe, you can settle for might merc. AR can be replaced with other equipment. Basically, it really shines, if you want to use some odd/unusual gear and need extra ias/ar/dmg from merc.

    I've been thinking of building a summoner druid which wears the bow himself, but I haven't got excited yet. Also, compared to Beast, requirements are not that bad that you couldn't use the bow for better fanaticism. For me, Beast is just an expensive oskill.

    It seems, that you enjoy playing casters? As you use a lot of Insight. If you see yourself playing more casters than melee, I vote for Infinity. If you play more melee, I don't know what to vote. I really recommend thinking very much before making Faith. I'm a bit turning to regret my Faith...
     
  15. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    I too agree, the CoH is too expensive and not need. I'd not cube them. Just wait a while, unless you truly want some uber RW that worth the price of the runes.
     
  16. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    I'd have to say that the difference between CoH to a SoVM is somewhat comparable to a perfect Griffon's and a low-end Griffon's, or a perfect Death's Fathom and a low-end Death's Fathom.

    Essentially the same thing, but one's better.

    FCR bps aren't that hard to hit, really. 20 (gloves) + 20 (belt) + 20 (circlet) + 30-50 (weapon) gives you a bunch already.
     
  17. Naab

    Naab IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    Debatable.:smiley:
    SotV fcr really helps to get those fcr bps alot easier.
    Also the +15 resists you get from CoH compared to skin isnt that big of a bonus, because for PvM you basicly need only 2 resists, lightning and fire, and you can get those with 3x small charm so you basicely lose only some life/mana you could get from those charms.For pvp in 1v1 you mostly only need 1 element maxed resist.
    The extra +skill you can get with an ring(soj or bkwb) because you probably will need to wear a fcr ring with coh



     
  18. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    An extra 15 res may not be that noticable, but it's still more (which is why I comapred it to Griffon's - the difference between a +12 and a +15 isn't much). "Some" mana is potentially 90 after BO. :p No matter how you look at it, it's an improvement unless you need the 30 FCR. And only a non-Spirit Pally/Necro would have to wear a FCR ring, ~110 is pretty manageable without rings. It might not be something efficient cost-wise, but compared to other runewords (with the exception of Infinity), it can be used on a whole lot more characters.

    [edit] It's only better for casters if you need the FCR. CoH > Sotv for Druid casters, Pally, and any 105 FCR Cold/Fire Sorc. The only time I can see Sotv > CoH is on Necro/Lit Sorc, and even then, I would personally take the CoH + 10 FCR ring set-up.

    [edit2] Okay, Cold Sorcs as well. Making SotV superior on any 200 FCR sorc build, Cold Sorcs, Lit Sorcs, non-Spirit Pallys, and Necros. With a crafted 2/15 FCR amulet, non-Spirit Pallys, Necros and Lit Sorcs are removed from the list. IMHO, which I know differs greatly from yours, I still see CoH as the overall winner.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008
  19. Naab

    Naab IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    Well for the same cost you can get a Beast which can be used on alot of chars too.And CoH can be used on a whole lot of characters, but usually SotV is better for casters and Fort is better for meleers.Only exeption i can think of are FC bear and LF zon.

    Also for example a cold sorc has difficultys getting 105 bp with CoH, because Dfathom has only 20% fcr and usually these sorcs use Nightwings which hasnt got fcr at all.Of cause you can say that cold sorc doesn't need to hit the 105 bp in PvM, but in PvP it's pretty useful.
     
  20. Sessily

    Sessily IncGamers Member

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    Re: Decisions, Decisions

    Why not wait to HF rush til another Ber. Then you can get Enigma.

    That armor is pretty much useful on every single character except a Sorceress (esp for Summon Necs/Druids) and invaluable for MF'ing.

    I may be a little blinded by my own desires though, to make a Hammerdin to run Hell Baal easily and endlessly. :D

    Although, I guess you could just use Naj's Puzzler on switch for a way more affordable substitue. But.... ENIGMA???:D How can you turn it down when you're so close :D
     

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