Dare I indulge in the dark side of D2 playing?

terrymanning

Diabloii.Net Member
Silkweed said:
If you wanna get philosophical, I'd stand by Kant's Catagorical Imperative, which is just a fancy term for saying "Treat others the way you yourself would like to be treated."
And yet you're still going to try your hand at PK-ing? Hmmm.

TM
 

baalos

Diabloii.Net Member
I think any discussion on isms as it relates to a computer game is silly.

As for resists, you basically have the big ones covered with deaths gloves and sash. Although at lvl 24 most go with bloodfists for the added life.

You probably are right about the charms if you are just starting out. But serious duelers load up on life charms. My lvl 9 sins usually have about 360 life because of their charms. I also put max damage jewels in sockets but the 29 necro dueler I'm building will have at least 6 prubies in his armor/helm/head.
 

Silkweed

Diabloii.Net Member
TM:

Since you refuse to let me get away with anything, let me elaborate. Emmanuel Kant came up with these two terms, maxims and universal laws. Maxims are personal little laws which only apply to the individual, while universal laws are maxims that apply to everyone. Nevermind for a minute that a universal law is impossible.

The Catagorical Imperative stated that you should act only on those maxims which you would wish to be universal laws. If you act on maxims which you would not wish to be universal laws, then Kant said that you have no right to be upset or surprised when people do the same thing to you.

So yes I am still trying my hand at PKing because I already expect people to try to PK me, and if I knew that everyone trying to PK me were doing it in the same manner as I intend to do it to other people (without the use of hacks or using other sneaky means), well, let's just say I would probably start playing pubbies again.

I don't think that applying any philosophy or science to a game is silly at all. After all, we use math all the time in Diablo. Math started out as philosophy, and many great mathematicians and scientists were also philosophers (Pythagoras, Newton, Leibniz, Descartes). Personally, it's the isms that allow me to enjoy this game on such a deeper level. Diablo 2 has it's own politics, social structure, treatise on the nature of man, physics, mathematics and all sorts of other things. How is that silly?

Back on topic though, I agree about the bloodfists argument, so I'll find an extra pair or something. I'm still coming up empty on ideas for helm and armor though, outside of max stuff.
 

baalos

Diabloii.Net Member
*sigh* Math is the mechanics of the game. In this game, math is absolute. Isms apply to ideas, philosophy (which you seem well schooled), and opinions. The game dynamic allows for PKing. To argue the morals of PKing, therefore, becomes silly. By no means am I sugguesting how you should enjoy this game. If you want to apply philosophy 101 to your game play by all means have at it.

But if I were you, I'd find some life charms. :wave:
 

Silkweed

Diabloii.Net Member
Hahaha, to each their own. I remember for my philosophy class, I actually wrote a 20 page essay about the different philosophies which were inherent in this game. It was dumb though because my teacher had never played the game, so a lot of it was spent explaining what certain game terms were...

Oh well, I got like a 90% on it.

As luck would have it, my friend (who's rich) gave me an entire stash worth of low level charms off his LLD/PK paladin which he doesn't play anymore. A lot of them are 11-15 life charms, but they're all level 17 req., so I don't foresee using them. He even offered me a max armor and helm, but again, they were level 18 req, and I want to keep around level 12 for the time being.

On a side note, I hate Blizzard's temp IP ban. I was trying to get into the HC trading channel, and you know how it always sticks you in room #2, which is empty, and so you gotta hit channel, backspace the 2, and replace it with 1 to get into the other channel. Well, it was full, so I just kept repeating it, hoping someone would leave and I'd get, but instead I got IP banned!

At least I managed to get a Clegaw's sword before that happened.
 

terrymanning

Diabloii.Net Member
baalos said:
The game dynamic allows for PKing. To argue the morals of PKing, therefore, becomes silly.

But if I were you, I'd find some life charms. :wave:
The dymanics of almost all situations allow, if not demand, choices be made. Your morals determine how you choose. Just because the game allows it, doesn't mean you have to choose to do it. The game doesn't demand you do something. You have a choice.

TM

btw: Life charms rule.
 

baalos

Diabloii.Net Member
Speaking of trading, you could trade those lvl 18 max damage charms for just about anything you need for your build. They are quite valuable to duelers. The charms you want are lvl 9 11-15 large charms. I think you have to wait til lvl 13 for small charms of life.

BTW post your hunting adventures. It is always fun to read new hunters' experiences.
 

Baranor

Diabloii.Net Member
Silkweed said:
TM:

Since you refuse to let me get away with anything, let me elaborate. Emmanuel Kant came up with these two terms, maxims and universal laws. Maxims are personal little laws which only apply to the individual, while universal laws are maxims that apply to everyone. Nevermind for a minute that a universal law is impossible.

The Catagorical Imperative stated that you should act only on those maxims which you would wish to be universal laws. If you act on maxims which you would not wish to be universal laws, then Kant said that you have no right to be upset or surprised when people do the same thing to you.

So yes I am still trying my hand at PKing because I already expect people to try to PK me, and if I knew that everyone trying to PK me were doing it in the same manner as I intend to do it to other people (without the use of hacks or using other sneaky means), well, let's just say I would probably start playing pubbies again.

I don't think that applying any philosophy or science to a game is silly at all. After all, we use math all the time in Diablo. Math started out as philosophy, and many great mathematicians and scientists were also philosophers (Pythagoras, Newton, Leibniz, Descartes). Personally, it's the isms that allow me to enjoy this game on such a deeper level. Diablo 2 has it's own politics, social structure, treatise on the nature of man, physics, mathematics and all sorts of other things. How is that silly?

Back on topic though, I agree about the bloodfists argument, so I'll find an extra pair or something. I'm still coming up empty on ideas for helm and armor though, outside of max stuff.
In that Kant recognizes the very limits of his own laws, and his universal laws are only universal in that they apply to your personal universe. As long as everyone that I meet, hear or read about follows the laws that I consider to be universal they are in fact universal.

What Kant basically does is devise something difficult for "Do not do unto others..." "Treat your neighbour like yourself..."
The old Jews weren't exactly dumb either, they invented Kant long before Kant existed, but since its the bible its all crap according to some people. Read, apply brains, and then come back again.

I pk-ed, and never complained about legit pk's. I didnt cheat but complained about them. I realized that not-cheating is not a universal law.
 

Baranor

Diabloii.Net Member
terrymanning said:
The dymanics of almost all situations allow, if not demand, choices be made. Your morals determine how you choose. Just because the game allows it, doesn't mean you have to choose to do it. The game doesn't demand you do something. You have a choice.

TM

btw: Life charms rule.
True. You must accept the consequences of that choice. Since it is an online and simluated enviroment, real life consequences apply far less to it.
 

Silkweed

Diabloii.Net Member
Will do Baalos. I've just gotta get some a couple more things from trades, level my pally a bit, and then hunt people down as St. Anselm.

I'm thinking I'm gonna try to explain Anselm's ontological argument for the existence of God to people and then PK them when they get frustrated because they don't understand it. At least, that's how it plays out in my mind. It'll probably actually look at lot like this:

Click, click, click, ear. :)

OR

Click, click, click, deeds. :(

Either way, I'll keep you guys posted.
 

baalos

Diabloii.Net Member
TM, if I play dodgeball and I choose to throw my ball at one particular kid, does that speak to my morality? It does not as that is part of the game. Might that hurt that child's feelings? Possibly even probably, but that child knew that was part of dodgeball when he/she chose to play. Thats all I'm saying. Lets honor the thread starter and not debate PKing. Zappa doesnt like it either.

But yeah, life charms rule.
 

NightShade

Diabloii.Net Member
If you bag him, it's a moral question.

If you're aiming for his face, probably a moral question too.


If you're using a botd dodgeball to pick on grade9's....moral question too.
 

ConnerMacleod

Diabloii.Net Member
My opinion: The world needs more PKers. Congrats Silkweed! The game is more exciting when the target is a live opponent.

One sec: PK in PKing games? WHERE DO I SIGN UP!?!?! LMAO ok, that's out of the way.

First: Choose a build you want to master and go with it. Charging Pallys are decent for starting out PK. Gets you through your training period where you learn to ignore all the "NOOB" comments and vulgarity that usually ensues when you hit the Hostile button. I remember this was a distraction for me when I first started, now I don't even read their comments until after one person dies or they all quit the game.

You will probably lose a little face starting out. Your builds probably won't be above par, and the more experienced players will kill you relatively easy. The first characters I would make without twinking. Kind of like an athlete that trains by pulling a sled of weights behind them. Once you get your game play skills down, twinking will only make you better and more damaging. The idea is to hone your skills while not losing all the best gear you got before you go live. Just because you are adept at killing monsters won't help you one bit against a live-thinking opponent. Great PKers aren't born, they are made.

After the Charger, learn another class. There are MANY to choose from. And I mean go with either a Barb or Assassin, Druid or Necro, Zon or Sorc. Figure out the best mode of operation of each class. I've experimented with a bunch of different builds. Keep them all at about 15 or 16 just to get a handle on things and work your way up.

Stay in normal until you get too good, then go on to the next difficulty. Always build your character to handle characters twice your level. PKing levels equal to or below is just not sporting, and will kill the fun for everyone.

Study the game a little more than you have. Spend some time on Arreat Summit reviewing all the available gear. Go to other forum sites that offer up-to-date information on game mechanics (Dii.net hasn't updated yet, not a slam against them). Learn the FBR, FHR, IAS, and FCR breakpoints. Learn the stat allocations required to achieve these breakpoints. FRW has no breakpoint, just diminishing returns.

And always remember, ethereal gear used in PK is best. I try to use all ethereal armors and weapons whereever possible. Not only is it cheaper to obtain (except eth Bonesnaps) but you will have added damage and added defense. So what if it breaks one day. Odds are that you will break before it breaks. No looting in PKing, so bring out your best when you go live.

We've all seen the people PKing in Hell. These people are either really good or just starting training. People like CannedBeeef are the top echelon of Hell PKers. (aside from your shouts of "dupe user" and bug-exploiter [rubs fingers together, smallest violin in the world, playing for you!]) To get to a Hell PK level, you need to know your game better than the majority of people. 1) You are gonna spend an insane amount acquiring the gear 2) when you die it's gonna hurt 3) you will spend more time leveling to get there, so you better know what you are doing.

That's my experience and advice in my 9 months of East PKing in a nutshell. Good luck to you!

Now Terry, when are you gonna join us?
 

NightShade

Diabloii.Net Member
*shouts something about morals and baalo's penis size shortly before catching the sphere to the face*

*spams something about baalos' mother*

*Has exited gym*
 

Silkweed

Diabloii.Net Member
Thank you for the well written reply Conner. I'm going to try my best just to get familiar with the whole concept of killing other live players, and then if I decide I like it, I may twink further and further.

I do not foresee PKing past normal, since it can take a long time for people to get that far and I think I'd feel bad about it.

I may try a throw barb or a kickassin at some point later as well. Just as soon as I can think of appropriate names for them that is.

And above all, I want to keep this dirt cheap for the time being.
 

terrymanning

Diabloii.Net Member
ConnerMacleod said:
Now Terry, when are you gonna join us?
It's just not for me. Believe it or not, I did actually try back in 1.09 to see what all the fuss was about.

I built a level 17 throw barb and hit an Arcane run game. I joined and walked over to the waypoint and just stood there as people started jumping to the Arcane Sanctuary. I was really surprised that no one thought better of it. So I went hostile, hit the waypoint and got two or three ears before anyone knew what happened. I didn’t even stay to pick them up.

I left the game feeling more than just a little embarrassed for what I had done. I deleted the character immediately afterwards.

It’s just not for me.

TM
 

ConnerMacleod

Diabloii.Net Member
terrymanning said:
It's just not for me. Believe it or not, I did actually try back in 1.09 to see what all the fuss was about.

I built a level 17 throw barb and hit an Arcane run game. I joined and walked over to the waypoint and just stood there as people started jumping to the Arcane Sanctuary. I was really surprised that no one thought better of it. So I went hostile, hit the waypoint and got two or three ears before anyone knew what happened. I didn’t even stay to pick them up.

I left the game feeling more than just a little embarrassed for what I had done. I deleted the character immediately afterwards.

It’s just not for me.

TM

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 

terrymanning

Diabloii.Net Member
ConnerMacleod said:
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

What?!1??! I tried it. I didn't like it.

TM

btw: I love the signature. Wasn't that from the Kurgan? I thought he was the best character in Highlander. "Happy Halloween ladies. Nuns, no sense of humor". :lol:
 
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