Damn that global warming

Damn that global warming

Newscientist .com said:
Dinosaurs suffered climate change too
03 October 2006

Dinosaurs had to cope with dramatic swings in the climate around 120 million years ago, with ocean surface temperatures changing by as much as 6 °C. The finding suggests that natural climate variations are much more complex than previously thought.

Simon Brassell from Indiana University, Bloomington, and colleagues examined telltale carbon compounds in fossilised bacteria. The proportion of these compounds varies with water temperature, and bacteria from different rock layers revealed that the ocean surface temperature went from around 30 °C to 36 °C in the space of 10,000 years (Geology, vol 34, p 833). "The changes appear step-like, as if the climate is switching from one mode to another," Brassell says.
Source
WHAT? SAY IT AIN'T SO! It's happened before? Before man existed? That's it! I officially blame the sun for global warming. Damn that sun...
 

Merick

Diabloii.Net Member
No one has ever denied that there's natural cyclic climate changes. The question is to what extent is our current warming is due to pumping out huge amounts of gasses that don't occur naturally in such numbers. The fact that the climate changed during the dinosaur's time has nothing to do with the current global warming debate.

And as Jack pointed out, it seems to be going at a faster rate then has been measured before.
 
How do we know that? We have specific data for the past 100 years. 10,000 years ago we have only what we can get out of sample cores. It's good but not as good as daily measurements. Who knows if 8006 B.C. was 1 degree warmer or colder than 7956 B.C.? We just don't have the data to back that up.

What we do have is scientists that get big grants if they find data that says WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! Take government grants out of the picture and we'll get better science
 

bladesyz

Diabloii.Net Member
Evil Conservative Inc said:
What we do have is scientists that get big grants if they find data that says WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! Take government grants out of the picture and we'll get better science
No, what we do have is human activity outputing tons of greenhouse gases, and the global temperature getting warmer and warmer.

Put your head in the sand if you want, but if there's a smoking gun and a bullet hole, chances are the bullet came from that gun.
 

S Z

Diabloii.Net Member
I wonder where in that article it states, or even argues suggestively with a hint of sexy calf and a pout, that we aren't causing the Earth to warm up.

Come now Smeg, your heart just doesn't seem to be in it these days. There was a time you'd make up a better justification for your position in your sleep, but the more time goes on the less convinced all you climate-change naysayers sound.
 

Stoutwood

Diabloii.Net Member
Evil Conservative Inc said:
How do we know that? We have specific data for the past 100 years. 10,000 years ago we have only what we can get out of sample cores. It's good but not as good as daily measurements. Who knows if 8006 B.C. was 1 degree warmer or colder than 7956 B.C.? We just don't have the data to back that up.
We don't even have sample cores for the dinosaurs. There wasn't an ice cap.

It isn't an "oh noes we're all going to die" issue, at least, provided the people arguing it aren't morons. I'm not even quite sure what the issue is, since even if we stop producing greenhouse gases the positive feedback of global warming will keep it going. That is assuming we have something to do with it, which I personally don't dispute.
 
bladesyz said:
No, what we do have is human activity outputing tons of greenhouse gases, and the global temperature getting warmer and warmer.
So how does that explain why Mars is getting warmer also? Did you forget the sun is outputting more energy lately? Oops

Put your head in the sand if you want, but if there's a smoking gun and a bullet hole, chances are the bullet came from that gun.
Hotter sun...

S Z said:
Come now Smeg, your heart just doesn't seem to be in it these days. There was a time you'd make up a better justification for your position in your sleep, but the more time goes on the less convinced all you climate-change naysayers sound.
Why bother. Nobody wants to accept that the sun is hotter now than it's been for a long time. All the libs ever want to do is blame people. Specifically Americans. Nevermind that our pollution is a fraction of what China puts out, they never get the heat. It's hard to give a **** anymore when the doom-and-gloomers are so off the wall kooky that they're proud of being kooks.
 

KillerAim

Diabloii.Net Member
jackthelad:
6 degrees C in 10,000 years compared to 1 degree in 45. Hardly 'happened before.'
I’ll match your 1 degree in 45 years to the Earth’s 2.7 degree drop in 24 years according to Time Magazine.

Care to explain how the Earth's temperature dropped for a quarter of the century when carbon emissions were on the increase?

-

bladesyz:
No, what we do have is human activity outputing tons of greenhouse gases, and the global temperature getting warmer and warmer.

Put your head in the sand if you want, but if there's a smoking gun and a bullet hole, chances are the bullet came from that gun.
Correlation does not equate to causation.

Noting that the Earth's temperature has been rising since you've been born, I can use your logic to conclude that YOU are the cause of Global Warming.

-

Stoutwood:
I'm not even quite sure what the issue is, since even if we stop producing greenhouse gases the positive feedback of global warming will keep it going.
Scientists can't even agree if the feedback is positive or negative. Water vapor, by far, has the largest greenhouse effect, especially when it's concentrated in clouds. That should be obvious to anyone going out outside in the summer on a cloudy day compared to a sunny one. Most scientists assume that increasing temperatures will increase the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere.

The science needed to accurately project cloud cover is not even in its infancy; that's why most climate models either ignore it or use very broad estimates for it. That is also a major factor in explaining why the best climate model cannot even predict historical temperatures accurately let alone project these temperature estimates out for hundreds of years with any level of confidence.
 

maccool

Diabloii.Net Member
Smeg said:
So how does that explain why Mars is getting warmer also? Did you forget the sun is outputting more energy lately?
You're just not really that good at science, Smeg. This monthly 'global warming' idiocy of yours serves no purpose...wait...

Smeg said:
All the libs ever want to do is blame people. Specifically Americans.
Ah, there it is. Carry on.



KillerAim said:
I’ll match your 1 degree in 45 years to the Earth’s 2.7 degree drop in 24 years according to Time Magazine.

Care to explain how the Earth's temperature dropped for a quarter of the century when carbon emissions were on the increase?
Care to explain how a non-scientific, non-peer reviewed article from 1974 and with the term "junk science" in the URL is proof? Hint: it's the same article that people have been trotting out as 'evidence' for 30 years.
 

Stoutwood

Diabloii.Net Member
KillerAim said:
Scientists can't even agree if the feedback is positive or negative. Water vapor, by far, has the largest greenhouse effect, especially when it's concentrated in clouds. That should be obvious to anyone going out outside in the summer on a cloudy day compared to a sunny one. Most scientists assume that increasing temperatures will increase the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere.

The science needed to accurately project cloud cover is not even in its infancy; that's why most climate models either ignore it or use very broad estimates for it. That is also a major factor in explaining why the best climate model cannot even predict historical temperatures accurately let alone project these temperature estimates out for hundreds of years with any level of confidence.
It has nothing to do with that nonsense. It involves increasing global temperature and the fact that the solubility of a gas decreases with increasing temperature.
 
maccool said:
You're just not really that good at science, Smeg. This monthly 'global warming' idiocy of yours serves no purpose...wait...
Sure it does. It pokes another hole in the ZOMG MAN IS KILLING US ALL!!! paranoia.

I fail to see how SUVs caused global warming 120 million years ago. If we listen to the "experts" and assorted perpetual C-grade scientists, it's man causing global wamring and no other factor is possible. It's our evil SUVs and factories that are KILLING MOTHER GAIA! Oh the huge manatee!

But don't let the opposing voice have a say. Nope. Can't let that happen. Fascism anybody?
 

maccool

Diabloii.Net Member
Evil Conservative Inc said:
Sure it does. It pokes another hole in the ZOMG MAN IS KILLING US ALL!!! paranoia.
It would. If you had the ability to discuss your claims scientifically. So, you've stated:

So how does that explain why Mars is getting warmer also?
Is it? Proof please. Keep in mind that I will hold you to the same standard you hold Earth climate data. That is, last 100 years, peer reviewed articles.

Did you forget the sun is outputting more energy lately?
Is it? Proof please. Keep in mind that I will hold you to the same standard you hold Earth climate data. That is, last 100 years, peer reviewed articles.

Nobody wants to accept that the sun is hotter now than it's been for a long time
Is it? Proof please. Keep in mind that I will hold you to the same standard you hold Earth climate data. That is, last 100 years, peer reviewed articles.

**** or get off the pot.

Best of luck to you. I'd suggest starting with Eos: Transactions of the American Geophysical Union. They have 1-2 page articles that might be a little long for you, but I think you can do it. If you need some other journals, I'd be happy to suggest some for you. Let me know.



I fail to see how SUVs caused global warming 120 million years ago. If we listen to the "experts" and assorted perpetual C-grade scientists, it's man causing global wamring and no other factor is possible. It's our evil SUVs and factories that are KILLING MOTHER GAIA! Oh the huge manatee!

But don't let the opposing voice have a say. Nope. Can't let that happen. Fascism anybody?
Mindless twaddle. Again, you can have a say when you a) understand the subject (a 6th grade understanding of the Earth is sufficient), b) are willing to discuss the subject intelligently, and c) recognize that a fringe group of non-scientists (like yourself) doesn't speak for the scientific community as a whole.

Oh, you'd rather do sound bites and make loud noises than provide any substance. I see. Good luck with that.
 
Like you said, I'm not a scientist. I don't even know where to look for those articles. I'm merely design buildings. I leave the minutea of the issue to the eggheads.

But I must ask of you, where have you ever posted a peer-reviewed article with 100 years of information? You haven't and I wouldn't expect you too. Not enough of us are eggheads. But go ahead, be an elitist. We all know you're better than everybody else. You've told us so.
 

bladesyz

Diabloii.Net Member
KillerAim said:
Correlation does not equate to causation.

Noting that the Earth's temperature has been rising since you've been born, I can use your logic to conclude that YOU are the cause of Global Warming.
So now the Greenhouse Effect is correlation?

Do you even know what that term means, or do you just trot it out to make yourself sound smart?

So how does that explain why Mars is getting warmer also? Did you forget the sun is outputting more energy lately? Oops
You sure love to sing that same old refrain, don't you? Do you even read other people's replies?
 

maccool

Diabloii.Net Member
Evil Conservative Inc said:
But I must ask of you, where have you ever posted a peer-reviewed article with 100 years of information?
Lithos and Journal of Metamorphic Petrology to name two. Lucky for me Eskola did his stuff in 1905, huh?

Not enough of us are eggheads. But go ahead, be an elitist. We all know you're better than everybody else. You've told us so.
Just asking you to back up your claims is all. If you have to resort to ad hom attacks, super. If you can't or are unwiling to defend your position, admit it and we can move on - until the next time you post the exact same topic.
 
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