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Damage reducing and magic reducing

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by WM Quaker, Jun 6, 2005.

  1. WM Quaker

    WM Quaker IncGamers Member

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    Damage reducing and magic reducing

    Hi, i have been searching for some information about how damage- and magic reducing works. I know that the damage reduction is capped at 50 %. But sometime items spawns with numbers instead of percents.
    fx.
    "damage reduced by 3"
    where it on string of ears says
    "damage reduced by 11%"
    What is the difference?

    And also, i would like to know how magic reducing works

    Is anyone able to help me?
     
  2. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    "damage reduced by x% is the same as physical resist. So it does exactly that, resist physical damage. Amplify damage and Decrepify will reduce that resitance, when your character (or anyone) is affected by it.

    Damage/magic damage reduced by xx also does exactly what it says, only that it will take effect before resistances are calculated. So if you have 50% damage reduce, and "damage reduced by 50" from gear, and was hit for 100 physical damage (and no other damage with the same hit, something which is common) that damage would first be reduced by the 50 points of damage reduce. Then the remaining damage (50) would be cut by 50%, resulting in 25 total damage.

    Now if you were cursed by amp, you'd get that 50 points taken off, and then your physical resist would now be -50% (amp reduces it by 100%) so you'd now take 75 total damage.

    Magic damage reduced by xx works the same way, just with fire/cold/lightning/magic damage. (not poison or normal physical damage). It too, is counted before resistances (but after energy shield, which makes it quite popular for certain sorceress builds).

    Physical resist is capped at 50% (down from 75% in 1.09), but you can still "stack up" on it to reduce the effects of curses, just as you can with normal resistances. There are no items which moves the physical resistance cap (but there are plenty to move the fire/cold/lightning/poison resists). I have no idea if the 50% is a hard-cap, or if it too can be moved to a higher value with theoretical items.

    That's about all I know about the matter. Magic Damage Reduction applies per frame, and thus is very effective against firewalls, meteor fire, and diablos lightning hose. The same is most likely true for Damage Reduction, but I don't know of any physical attacks that last several frames.
     
  3. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    Isn't that fire hose attack half physical?
     
  4. Necrochild313

    Necrochild313 IncGamers Member

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    Yessir it is, same with diablo clone's lightning hose.
     
  5. WM Quaker

    WM Quaker IncGamers Member

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    Thx for the answears :clap:

    Now i can begin to calculate some more dmg stuff :uhhuh:

    So the process of monsters hitting me is like this?

    1. Chance to hit through my defense
    http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=551#Chance to hit

    2. Chance to block
    http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=551#Chance to Block

    3. Damage reductions (both magical and physical) and damage taken goes to mana

    A shield like Spike Thorn, has "Damage Reduced by (15-20)%" , is that all kind of damage, like magical (incl. elements),physical and posion?

    Do you know if there is any tables of how much damage monsters do and their attack rating? Like how much pindle do on normal, nightmare and hell, or how much a fallen do on hell and stuff like that?
     
  6. ilkori

    ilkori IncGamers Member

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    Note: There are some severe penalties on mdr for frame-based attacks. Tommi explains all
     
  7. thegiantturtle

    thegiantturtle IncGamers Member

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    "damage reduced by" is like physical resist. if you have 20% damage resist from spike thorn, it's like having 20% resistance to physical damage.

    d2data.net and the arreat summit both have information on monster's damage, but i'm not very optimistic that it's up to date. I know the d2data.net is not the place to go for monster levels in hell (they didn't know about monster levels increasing based on area level), but i don't know if the rest of their monster data is right.
     
  8. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    If they have the Mlvl wrong (which is the case for almost all monster entries at AS and d2data.net), then the life/dmg/ar/def/exp are also wrong.
     
  9. zeskelnec

    zeskelnec IncGamers Member

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  10. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    maybe this might save you a little trouble:

    make a char with:
    harle (10% dam reduction)
    stormshield (35% dam reduction, + the harle, just under the effective max)
    rising sun (pretty much invulnerable to fire damage)
    ravenfrost (cold absorb)
    tgods (lightning absorb)
    wiz spike (puts you at positive resists in hell + 3 quests)
    any good armor with @50% all res, such as smoke, chains, or even vipermagi
    socket as needed with all res jewels to max you out.

    then, run around the worldstone in hell or nm and see how well you can take the elemental damage.

    what you will find is:
    1. as almost all missile or casting monsters cheat and add phys damage to their attacks, you can still get seriously hurt from a boss pack of gloams, skeleton archers, or witches.
    2. however, you can still survive.
    3. tgods is incredibly effective as almost all lightning damage except lightning enchanted bosses are per frame.
    4. ravenfrost is less so, as almost all cold damage occurs in a single frame.

    so, what I have found is that a dr/absorb/block build is a far less effective than it used to be. imho, it will allow you to survive against the enhanced monsters in .10, but you will still die if you play stupid.
     
  11. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    funny story, just happened the other day:

    i used to host baalruns and tp down the worldstone. however, since i restarted, i'm still not at the eq level i'd like to be. so, when i wanted to get a few more crafting-friendly levels for my blizz sorc, i suited up as best i could in case i would have to be the tp'er. (side note: yes, 65% fcr still doesn't cut it.) the eq i had was pretty much as listed above, using the rising sun, ravenf, a soj, smoke armor and war travs.

    so, i joined a party and we were killing the minions. another player says to me, "why do you use wiz spike? eschuta's or hoto is way better." then, the 2nd group of minions arrived, which included the unravelers. in case somebody is reading this and doesn't know, unravelers can raise undead monsters. it just so happened that there were undead doll corpses in the room, and one was raised right between us. it was immediately killed in the crossfire, taking my hoto-using friend with him. i was taken down to about 1/2 to 1/3 life.

    me: "see? wiz spike rocks."
     
  12. zeskelnec

    zeskelnec IncGamers Member

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    HELP !!DMG and MAGIC reduced by XX

    Sorry Guys,

    I have still some difficulties to understand some points.
    Damage reduced by X% is easy, no pb.

    Damage and magic reduced by XX is different and gives me headache.
    Does it work per frame, per hit, per second ?
    Example on BANE, which is only available at lvl 85, one could say , Wow! what an armor! High def and one of the highest reduction of damage by XX.

    a) Attacker takes damage of 20,
    If my character in melee gives 1500 damage per hit( which is peanuts), what is worth 20 damage extra. If it is per frame then at 10fpa it is 200 damage, not negligeable.

    b) Damage reduced by 15-20 : Uniques and Boss generally have 2 melee attacks with a max of 266 dmg for baal in hell or is it basic value with no modifiers?. Then BANE would reduce by 5.5 to 7.5 % ? Oups, I put Shaft on.

    c)magic damage reduced by 15-20 : I have no data on what monsters deliver.

    What we can be sure is that some of them can kill you in one hit when you have 1000 life , so giving a high amount of dmg . So what calculation can I trust ? Is shaft better than bane ? do I need to keep in early games all of this rings "magic reduce by 1", armor with "dmg reduced by 2"

    PLease , help me
    -
     
  13. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    When a melee monster/player succesfully attacks you it gets that amount of dmg. So it's once per attack.

    Plain PDR works best against lots of normal monsters, which don't do more than ~125 max dmg. With 2 or more sources of PDR you can reduce physical attacks further than PDR% can, since PDR% is capped at 50%. Against really damaging physical attacks, PDR% is simply better.

    It varies a lot, so there's no simple answer to this one. Remember that MDR is reduced (to 1/25 - 6/25) against continous attacks.

    Such attacks are really not that common in D2, but when they happen you'll want to have max PDR%, and against lots of small physical attacks you'll want straight PDR.
     

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