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daggerzon & damage reduction

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by bilgepump, Nov 1, 2006.

  1. bilgepump

    bilgepump IncGamers Member

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    daggerzon & damage reduction

    I am currently working on a daggerzon with the following gear:

    Fleshripper
    Guillames Face
    Gladiator's Bane
    Stormshield
    Goreriders
    Safety Amulet
    Safety Gloves
    String of Ears
    Safety Ring
    Safety Ring

    I was wondering if it would be a better idea to ditch the Stormshield and go for Gerke's Sanctuary...
    Would the extra twenty or so points of straight damage reduction be worth exchanging for the 35% offered by stormshield?

    The total sdr with Gerke's would be between 70 and 80, and between 40 and 50 with SS.

    Furthermore does anyone know the mechanics for damage reduction, straight or percentage? I have looked at the Tommi Gustafsson site, but I can't seem to make the equation work.

    Thanks for any help.
     
  2. Nimbostratus

    Nimbostratus IncGamers Member

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    Damage reduction is applied like this:
    -straight damage reduction
    -resistance (aka PDR%)

    So it is impossible to fully negate the damage (unless there's a very high amount of straight DR and/or a high level Energy Shield).
     
  3. bilgepump

    bilgepump IncGamers Member

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    After looking at the equation again I found my mistake (please excuse my dear aunt sally), but I was wondering what the average damage that monsters in hell do. If it is below 80, then the straight dr would be quite effective. If it is significantly higher, the percentage damage reduction might be better...

    Maybe there is an optimum amount of each given an average damage in hell...

    Lemme go get Excel...
     
  4. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    PDR and DR% don't interact as well together, so I'd prefer the PDR from Gerke's to the DR% from Stormshield.

    Also, you're missing out on a lot of potential PDR here. First thing's first- ditch that cruddy Safety Amulet and grab yourself an Amulet of Life Everlasting. Each bad boy carries up to 25 PDR. Unfortunately, it's a magic-only affix (so it won't spawn on yellows)... but come on. 25 PDR. It's ridiculous.

    Second, don't forget that Sols are really cheap and add 7 PDR in gear. Sol your Glad's, Sol your Guillame's, Sol your Gerke's, and that's 21 more PDR.

    Third, get Blood Gloves. The CB is way more important than an extra... what, 5 or 6 points of PDR?

    Fourth, consider skipping the Gerke's entirely. If you could get the fabled JMoD (Jeweller's Monarch of Deflecting), you could toss in 4 Sols for 28 PDR. Of course, JMoD's don't exactly grow on trees, but I figured I'd throw that out there.

    Even better yet (and of course, even rarer and harder to find)... you can get Jeweler's Monarch of Amicae, as well as Jeweler's Armor of Amicae. That's potentially 43 points of PDR from each gear slot. Ri. Dic. U. Lous.

    Fifth, I really like the Guillame's and think that it's probably the right choice here (especially if you keep a stack of fast javs on switch to jab bosses with), but just something to consider... circlets can spawn with the Life Everlasting suffix for up to 25 PDR, and can get up to 2 more sockets which you can double-sol to hit 39 PDR. Just something to consider if you're hurting for more PDR.

    Sixth, ditch those cruddy Safety Rings. Repeat after me: Nature's Peace. Monsters RIP, Prevent Monster Heal, and up to 11 PDR. It's okay to keep a nice high-resist Safety Ring in one slot, but at least one of your ring slots should be devoted to the best Nature's Peace you can find.

    Seventh, Decrep and Weaken. These skills are your best friend. Weaken will effectively increase your PDR by 50% (if you had 100 PDR, and Weaken triggers, it's like you have 150 PDR). Decrep will go one further and effectively DOUBLE your PDR (100 PDR + Decrep = 200 PDR without Decrep). I know, crazy, right? So where can you get Weaken or Decrep? Well, Soul Drainer Vambraces have an 8% Chance To Cast Level 3 Weaken On Striking, and both Lawbringer and Reaper's Toll will give your merc a chance to cast Decrep. I'd recommend going with one, or possibly even both of them- the Weaken covers a bigger area and lasts longer, the Decrep is more effective.

    You can also get Weaken from Ondal's Helm... but it's such a crappy helm that I wouldn't even bother. Soul Drainers are really nice gloves with dual-leech built in (4-7% life and mana leech), and there are no really great Daggerzon gloves (aside from maybe some crafted IAS + passive skills blood gloves), while there are plenty of great daggerzon helms. Long story short, don't even bother with Ondal's.

    Seventh, in case it wasn't painfully obvious by now, I do a *TON* of high-PDR builds, ranging from Meleemancers to invincible Paladins. If you have any other questions, or want any other advice, either post here or shoot me off a PM and I'll do my best to help you out. Best of luck!:smiley:

    It varies drastically by monster. A ton of Hell monsters in all acts will deal less than 80 average damage, but the big heavy hitters do significantly more. I think Ventar's Minions check in with the highest damage at something like 150-180 average per hit. And, of course, there are always ES monsters, or Might/Fanat-enchanted monsters, who will have higher average damages. Still, 80-100 points of PDR is ridiculously powerful in Hell, especially on a tankazon-type that gets hit so rarely in the first place.



     
  5. Fuzzier

    Fuzzier IncGamers Member

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    Daggerzon? Do you put ALL skill pts in passive? I'm interested.
     
  6. bilgepump

    bilgepump IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the awesome reply SSoG!

    I think I will go with the life everlasting Amulet, Gerke's and Nature's Peace.

    Is MDR as important as PDR? MDR only works for elemental damage correct?
    The final setup should have ~100 PDR and ~50 MDR...

    Fleshripper(Ber)
    Guillames Face(Sol)
    Gladiator's Bane(Sol)
    Gerke's Sanctuary(Sol)
    Goreriders
    Amulet of Life Everlasting
    Blood Gloves
    String of Ears
    Nature's Peace
    Safety Ring


    Yes, except if you want a switch weapon such as a bow or javelin (or spear:wink3: )



     
  7. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Daggerzon is a type of Tankazon that uses Daggers as her main weapon. The reason she uses Daggers is that Amazons have HORRIBLE blocking speeds with all 1-handed swinging weapons (swords, axes, maces). I'm talking absolutely BRUTAL. An Amazon wielding a one-handed sword and a shield has a 17-frame block speed (to compare, the superslow Werebear has a 12-frame block, which is still night and day faster than the Amazon). Amazons with 1-handed piercing weapons (daggers and javs) block in 5 frames. In other words, the choice for all Tankazons (i.e. Amazons who invest solely in passive skills to become massive tanks) is either wield a sword/axe/mace and have a 17-frame block, wield a dagger or javelin and have a 5-frame block, or wield a 2-handed weapon and eschew blocking entirely. That's why Daggerzons are so popular when Daggers are normally ignored as a melee weapon class.

    MDR is practically useless. I'm about to launch into a big discussion on the mechanics of PDR and MDR, so you can either take my word for it that MDR is practically useless, or you can read on. I have to warn you, though- this might get kind of long and confusing.

    First off, let's discuss the PDR/MDR overflow mechanic. The PDR/MDR overflow mechanic is a bug in the way that PDR/MDR are calculated that will cause any excess PDR or MDR to "spill over" and negate the other damage type, too. For instance, if you have 100 PDR, and you get hit by an attack that deals 80 physical and 20 fire damage... your PDR will negate the 80 physical, and then you'll have 20 PDR left over, which will "spill over" and negate the 20 fire damage. Because of the PDR/MDR overflow mechanic, if you have excess PDR or MDR, it lessens the need for the other type of damage reduction. In this case, you'll have a ton of PDR, which will act as MDR, anyway, on attacks that deal both physical and magical damage.

    Now, if you face an attack that deals 100% elemental damage (such as Gloam lightning), PDR won't help- the attack has to have a physical portion to begin with in order for the PDR to "spill over". BUT... 100% elemental attacks usually deal something like 2-4 times as much damage as 100% physical attacks. It's just Blizzard's way of acknowledging that, since it's so easy to max your resists in Hell, elemental attacks need to be correspondingly stronger to compensate. The result is that, in order to get the equivalent of 100 PDR, you're going to need something like *300 MDR*- which, since MDR doesn't come in big-ticket bunches (like the Amulet of Life Everlasting for PDR), and because Mal runes are more expensive than Sol runes, is impossible to achieve.

    Remember, too, that if you're facing an attack that deals 200 Lightning damage, then 50% Lightning Resist will do you as much good as 100 MDR- except that 50% Lightning resist is so, so, so very much easier to achieve. Also, MDR won't do you any good against per-frame elemental attacks, such as Inferno or the LBoD, because it gets nerfed into oblivion.

    In short- straight damage reduction (like MDR) works best against weaker attacks, while percentage-based damage reduction (like resistances) works best against stronger attacks. All of the elemental damage you face will either be a small amount of added damage tacked onto physical attacks (in which case, PDR will roll over and take care of it), or else it will be a huge amount of purely-elemental damage (in which case resistances will serve you better), or else it will be a per-frame elemental attack (in which case MDR is so severely nerfed that it won't do you any good anyway). Basically, there isn't a single situation in the entire game where MDR outshines resists.

    Now, if you happen to get some MDR from gear that you were already getting some PDR from anyway (such as Glad's or Gerke's), then that's fine. MDR will never HURT you... it will just very rarely help you. I *never* actively seek out MDR, though. It just isn't worth it. If I found a Glad's bane with perfect PDR and the worst possible MDR, I'd rather wear that than another Glad's bane with PDR 1 point shy of perfect, as well as perfect MDR.

    You will, however, want to max your resists- or at least come as close as you possibly can. Consider stuffing a Diamond in that Gerke's instead of a Sol, if your resists aren't up to par.



     

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