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D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Chaboi, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. Chaboi

    Chaboi IncGamers Member

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    D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    Did you know that with this game structure you get gear in 1/4 the time it would take in d2? Possibly less than that. While based on an assumption, it is logical to assume that it doesn't matter whether 1 person or 4 people are in a game and kill a boss, the number of items dropped for each player will be the same. Ex: kill this boss he drops 2 items for you, if two players are in the game both would receive 2 items due to the scaling of difficulty. Reducing the number of items dropped for each player when multiple individuals kill a boss is counter intuitive to the developer's "play with your friends" design strategy as well as it's a kind of punishment for killing in a party.

    Where I am going with this is that with a balanced group (4 different classes) presumably all with different item needs (for most slots) you can achieve gearing yourself 4x faster than you would solo. Using the math from above, let's say you are going for a legendary staff that drops off an end boss in bastion's keep. With a .5% drop rate on the item and 2 items dropped per kill, it would take you 100 kills to get the item (on average). Whereas, with 4 people in the game, that's 8 item rolls per kill, and a need to complete only 25 runs to get that item (on average). Therefore, running any dungeon without 4 people with you gimps your ability to get the items you want/need.

    Better start finding 3 other people you Trust/enjoy playing with!
     
  2. slingblade

    slingblade Banned

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    Boss drops are on a per player basis. You don't get more personal drops for having more people in your party. Those other people in your party - their drops are going to be things that only they can see, usable by them. Also, complete assumptions about loot drop percentages which we know nothing about.

    Thread over.
     
  3. Chaboi

    Chaboi IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    Actually you are incorrect. More total items will drop. Assuming you are with friends, you will have access to additional drops.

    Thanks for playing.
     
  4. slingblade

    slingblade Banned

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    More total items. But not ones you'll have access to, unless other members of your party are playing the same class.

    Regardless, still based entirely on assumptions about drop rates.

    /thread
     
  5. Chaboi

    Chaboi IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    My math scales regardless of drop %.
     
  6. Spens

    Spens IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    I had fast fingers, so I could gear up much quicker in D2 (I'd grab all the drops).

    I'll buy your assumption that in D3, gearing up with 4 players in a game will be faster than gearing up playing solo. But I don't see how you can compare it to D2.
     
  7. niesent

    niesent IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    Only way you would gear up faster is if all 4 of those players are different classes, and are willing to exchange the gears to each other without trading for stuff THEY need, thus they would need to know each other very well or irl. If you are playing by yourself, without friends but with 3 other random people, you WILL NOT gear up any faster than you would in Diablo 2. The thread starters hypothetical situation is going to be very rare. The average D3 player will gear up just as fast as D2, probably a bit faster with better crafting mechanics now.
     
  8. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    In D2 more players in a game also resulted in more drops per enemy, so your assumption fails based on this alone.

    Why? If you play with more players, you get more drops overall. Also, it's possible that the quality of dropped items will increase likewise. How is this a punishment for group play?

    Granted, you can't see everything that drops, because loot is per player, but the others can drop stuff for you if they don't need it.

    It's never a bad idea to do this. :)

    I don't get exactly what you mean by usable, but everyone can drop an item they pick up and after this it becomes free loot for others in the game, meaning that they can pick it up and use it.

    Again, I'm not sure I understand you, but class-specific items doesn't only drop for those characters that can use it as well. So a barbarian may get a wizard orb.

    If I misunderstood you slingblade, then disregard what I said.


     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  9. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    This is based that the net amount that drops is the same as the net that drops while single. The difference is that single gets all, multiplayer is split. So if a run gives a SP 20 items, you get 5 from MP.

    This topic assumes each player gets that net, so a 4 player run drops 80 items split to 4 players.



    What we don't know is if each is generated separately (which means a potential for more variety such as one guy getting a Shako, the other crap), or, if the drops are 4x of the same.

    No access, in that you don't see them. You see your share, but the rest remains a mystery until they drop it for you. While possible, it isn't always guaranteed in MP.
     
  10. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    Somehow I misread "multiple individuals". Going through what he wrote again I agree with him, except with the assumption that gearing up will take one quarter of the time it took in D2.

    It's most likely the former.

    That's what I thought at first, but the part about other party members being the same class didn't make sense to me. I think you have a better chance of getting items from other players when they're aren't the same class as you, since then it's less likely they'll need items "intended" for your class.


     
  11. EvoV

    EvoV IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    It's difficult to tell if this is a subtle troll thread, or if Chaboi is 12...


    Headline! If you play with 3 other people that give you all their drops you gear up in 1/4 the time.

    You're completely ignoring the effect that trading has on the situation. Even if you were playing with a tight nit group of friends that were all willing to pass drops freely between each other, AND assuming there's no overlap in the gear they're chasing ( which is highly doubtful ) you STILL won't gear up notably quicker. What about when a legendary weapon drops for you that you don't need? Or when anything drops for you that you don't need for that matter. Under your assumptions, you'd be simply passing that loot on to whoever does need it. Whereas the players who've reached puberty recognize they can trade those items they don't need for similar quality items they DO need.

    Granted, running with people you know that are willing to freely pass loot around may save a little bit of time you'd spend trading later on, but that time saving would be minor compared to the time loss associated with playing in a fixed group.

    A short educational film relevant to this discussion..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQpc0QfBaMc
     
  12. snurrfint

    snurrfint IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    You are missing the huge fact that it will take more than 4 times longer to kill a boss in d3.

    Also, since there are induvidual drops, I cant see why the drop should increase in multiplayer. In d2, with no induvidual drops, it was increased in MP to match the number of players.

    MF wasnt even done in groups in d2, so I dont really see the point.

    If MF motevates people to play in groups, thats a good thing right? Assuming the difference between soloing and grouping isn't huge.

    Thank you for playing!
     
  13. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    By my reasoning in a coop game when you kill something it's group effort, so the loot doesn't belong to any single member of the party, regardless if you only see your share. At any rate as a barb I wouldn't hesitate to give a unique sword with caster stats to a wizard for free, if he wasn't slacking during the fight. He worked just as hard for it as me. Although maybe puberty hasn't kicked in for me yet...

    Because when there are 4 people in a game, individually every one of them gets at least as much loot (presumably) as when playing alone, so there's at least 4 times as much loot dropping in 4 player games.


     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  14. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    i dont think we know enough about how drops work to assume anything like this. sass covered pretty much all of it. does the boss drop 4x the loot? is it the same? is it all unique/rare for all or 1 unique per boss rest magic and its random?

    now i will go a head and agree that you will gear up faster in d3 compared to d2 but several different reasons come into play for me. easier trading and possibly outright buying with an AH. crafting. lower max level. and yes i am sure there will be more item drops in a 4 player game. i dont see how this is bad though, who would play in groups in the item drop rate actually decreased?

    even if bosses drop 4x the loot and even if you play with 3 friends and you all give each other loot without trading if you char needs it you will not gear up in 1/4th the time. there are 5 classes, 3 of the 4 drops could be wizard items and here you are without a wizard in your little group.
     
  15. theeliminator

    theeliminator Well-Known Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Panopticon

    Panopticon IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    LOLOL, good luck with that...


     
  17. Chaboi

    Chaboi IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    Sorry gents this thread was also posted on the diablofans site where a much better and realistic conversation happened. The problem with opinion is that it's just that. Read the thread the math backs it up.. Chill simpletons.
     
  18. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    It's still good in theory, but won't work in practice. The 1/4th the time assumes one person gets all the drops from everyone. Nobody will let you do that unless it's a rush / singled boss run (discouraged by Blizz).

    The assertion that it's 1/4th in regards to D2 is even more so false because D2 did 4x the drop chance with a full game. This matches D3's drop, but with one exception. In D2, the FFA meant you could gather 4x the amount. D3's split loot ensures you don't. You will gear up in 4x the time.








    *Note: these are based purely on using what drops and doesn't factor trading / free-bees.
     
  19. Titikaka

    Titikaka IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    Just because you can't use an item doesn't mean it's worthless, if it's tradeable. If there's an auction house or a way to trade in DIII then you would acquire items of the same value as each player in the 4-man group while playing solo, on average. Unless the 4-man group clears the content faster than the solo player or gets more drops/player.

    So by using the auction house the solo player would be able to get his item as quickly as each individual of the 4-man group, on average and disregarding the time it takes to trade for the item.

    We can't say anything until we know how droprates and killspeed varies in groups though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  20. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3 = geared up in 1/4 the time

    If you want a realistic answer...

    1. The time it takes to gear up is a function of killing speed and drop rates. You know nothing about either when it comes to Diablo 3, so you cannot make predictive comparisons to Diablo 2 (and that's ignoring dupes, bots, item sellers, scammers, jsp, etc.)

    2. Even if you knew the above unknowns, you would need information on how partying affects overall killing speed and drop rates. Again, you know neither.

    The reason you are being mocked is because you are making hard mathematical predictions on unsubstantiated assumptions. And the ones I listed are just the cores ones - you don't account for crafting, you don't account for trading, you don't account for potential quest rewards, you don't account for treasure chests. And, as a cherry on top, you are assuming that the average player will have access to three buddies who will gladly give away any item he/she might need for the chance the said average player will conveniently get an equivalent in cost item to give back at some future time.

    Your proposed strategy for maximizing item gains might end up being correct - but you can't claim any evidence or reason for it until Blizzard graces us with substantially more information.
     

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