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D3, an outsider's view

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Crazygeorge, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. Crazygeorge

    Crazygeorge IncGamers Member

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    D3, an outsider's view

    Blizzard's announcement of Diablo 3 has created a healthy dose of excitement, expectations and wild speculations. There are people that defend the company line with zealot's vigor, while others on the brink of being labeled trainspotters fanatically dismiss the game all together. Allow me to take an outsider's look at what we've seen so far.

    1. Art and visuals.

    Admittedly, this game has passed on to 3D environments from 2D isometric view. Can be a bliss and a curse in terms of gameplay. I'd rather not speculate with respect to atmosphere and color palette since we've only seen less than 20 minutes of actual gameplay so I find it rather pointless. However, the 'dark and gloomy' look of Diablo 2, can be partially due to system limitations when the game was released while this time around, the developers have a chance to re-create the game world as more vibrant. If they succeed it remains to be seen.

    2. Gameplay mechanics.

    A lot of gimmickry was shown such as being able to interact with the environment but the core gameplay has received a few changes, not all of the for the better. Take cooldowns for example, which might be detrimental to the overall game slowing down the pace quite substantially. Moreover, allow me to characterize cooldown mechanics as 'balance band aids' in other words, a few skills/abilities can get out of hand. Thus, in the designer's view there has to be a limit to keep things in check. In addition, it somewhat evens out the playing field in online, games, allowing for players latency to have a smaller impact in the overall experience.

    Moving on to the new health orb mechanic, I'm rather skeptic about the whole concept. In terms of melee characters it works like a charm but with ranged attackers it can be problematic since jumping right in the middle of an enemy pack for a health orb can very well mean disaster.

    3. Classes

    Time will tell if the final game features interesting, solid and most importantly fun to play character classes. As for Diablo 2 classes that might not be in the game, consider the fact that there might be a problem with the new engine, thus instead of revamping the engine, the dysfunctional classes simply had to go.

    Phew! That was a long one!

    Good hunting...
     
  2. Felix

    Felix IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    There were cooldowns in DII.
     
  3. sicilian

    sicilian IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    For the health orbs, the ranged classes really shouldn't need the orbs as much, for the same reason the Hunter in WoW doesn't need as many potions or bandages. If all goes well, they're not taking any damage. If all goes not so well... the consequences are greater.

    They'll still help the ranged classes though, by helping them keep their health full from battle to battle.
     
  4. stillman

    stillman IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    I think the health globes are a good idea. Also, the globe healing powers are shared with party members, though we don't know what the shared radius will be.

    Hey, I'm going to watch the video again right now! It's been a few days.
     
  5. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    Cooldowns help to restrict gameplay mechanics where you only spam one skill repeatedly as long as you need to..., basically leaving a character unable to do anything else...

    In d2, a blizzard sorc can move/teleport while blizzard is still taking effect...
     
  6. phool

    phool IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    I hated how in Titan Quest significent cooldowns were stuck on pretty much everything for no good reason. Well placed cooldowns are a useful balancing mechanic however if trying to include as varied skills as possible, mana cost alone is by far insufficient in d2's current system.
     
  7. Crazygeorge

    Crazygeorge IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    With respect to ranged classes not needing health regeneration all that much, consider this:

    You have a group of melees protecting another group of ranged attackers. Now, if you're playing a ranged attacker, you cannot jump right into the melee group to pick up an orb, provided that you've killed a couple of them. In the meantime, you're getting pounded by the ranged group. In other words, an ambush and probably a 'just die' situation since can't pick an orb due to melees and the ranged ones are eating away at your health bar.

    As for keeping health high in between engagements, you have to remember that in this genre -namely action RPG's- things can go very bad very fast. There has to be some alternative for ranged classes and I'm sure that the developers have and will put thought into it. It's just that the health orb mechanism at the present time is more melee-oriented than anything else.

    As for cooldowns, short cooldowns can be beneficial in overall gameplay but anything above a given amount of seconds -think single digits here- could slow down the pace. Granted, the no-cooldown approach can lead to button mashing but having 20 second or more recharge time for your main attack for example could be too much for an action game. I dare not to think about even longer ones within the minutes range...
     
  8. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    In between cooldowns you can use other skills...
     
  9. Millionflame

    Millionflame IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    I'm definitely in agreement with Crazygeorge here over ranged attackers having possible problems with this new regen system, especially for characters that don't have summons or other players to tank for them. Versus mixed groups or pure ranged packs, the range advantage is little consolation when you're desperately trying to dodge meteors, arrows, and melee monsters while trying to land hits. Knockback, chill/freeze, and slow can only mitigate these problems to a degree. Hit-and-run is painfully tedious, especially once monsters start getting fatter life pools.

    Personally, I hope the whole health orb idea gets scrapped in favor of good ol' leeching.
     
  10. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    Pots (10 chars).
     
  11. Kirah

    Kirah IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    If you have ranged enemies protected by a few melee monsters, you can back off, pick off the melee monsters chasing you, heal up and the sniper the ranged. Even if you're surrounded, you probably can hit one side of the trap and break away to safety. What's more likely to happen is that you're in a party and you send in your melee dudes / pets / whatever in while providing covering fire. Some of the best memories of D2 was when partying with my homies. Had a gang which consisted of barb, necro, druid, sorc. We had the best of it all with ranged firepower (sorc & AI messing spells from the Necro). The barb and I (vita fury wolf druid build) were in charge of being the hefty melee types. Add the amp damage to prevent physical immunes from ruining our day and the party was fairly unstoppable. We'll just wait and hope for the spectacle known as Diablo 3.

    good luck and good hunting!
    Kirah
     
  12. Crazygeorge

    Crazygeorge IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    First of all, forcing ranged characters to 'kite or die' does not appear as a sound design decision. Having kiting an enemy as an option is beneficial, but forcing a certain playstyle is detrimental.

    As for group dynamics, once the game's design and playstyle is structured around them, then it's more of an MMO and less of an action RPG. In other words, a non-multiplayer game should be able to be played solo while having an extra 'layer' of group play for multiplayer. Group dynamics can work with what we've seen so far in terms of health regenerating mechanics but by more or less forcing ranged attack characters to group is definately bad design.

    As for potions, keep in mind that there's a design decision to veer away from heavy potion usage as well as the fact that health orbs are free, while stockpiling on consumables can be a factor of resources, time and inventory space. Hardly an even approach, thus giving melees a relative advantage.
     
  13. godzilla99s

    godzilla99s IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    number 1 ,, the developers said the whoever gets the health orb it will affect ALL party members close by.
    number 2,, um hello the said there will be potions, just not as many as there were in D2, so the ranged guys will be fine, there are still pots, and if a tank barb grabs a health orb and your somewhat nearby you'll get it too,,, soo stop your yapping and watch the developers discussing the gameplay before you mention anything.
     
  14. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    Ranged classes kite, period. If you're not a big hulking dude in shiny metal armor, you're not going to stand in the middle of a horde by choice.

    Second, the character should be able to kill enough monsters and give the others the run around in order to retrieve the orb, given appropriate kill selection.
     
  15. Telzen

    Telzen IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    God are people just trying to find things to complain about?
     
  16. Crazygeorge

    Crazygeorge IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    Pardon me Your Excellencies for not crawling on all fours and praising a game that Your Highnesses seem to adore so much. Believe me, I haven't even skimmed the surface of issues judging by what the developers have already stated and following their train of thought. As a second thought, re-read my posts, you might figure out where I'm getting at.

    Someone mentioned 'tank barb' or 'the others'. Re-read my group mechanics post please.
     
  17. phool

    phool IncGamers Member

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    Re: D3, an outsider's view

    Personally I imagine the next ranged specialist having a large amount of crowd control along the lines of D2's assassin. A strafer with KB currently won't be doing much running however even without any other form of cc.
     

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