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D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Nimbostratus, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. Nimbostratus

    Nimbostratus Diabloii.Net Member

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    D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    What are some gripes you had with D2 that you'd like to see remedied in D3? Yes, some of these might be covered in other topics, but they might be linked to other things.

    1. HP vs damage balancing
    In Diablo 2, players have huge damage and small HP, while the reverse is true for monsters. However, this causes some problems-
    A. Reflected damage skills are near pointless against monsters and instant death against players
    B. Even with damage being reduced to one sixth, 1-hit kills are still quite possible in PVP/PK.


    2. "Best" vs normal equipment balancing
    I think some more care should be taken to ensure that the top of the line gear isn't drastically more powerful than what you can find while just questing. I'm not saying that they should be equal, but that the change from regular to "godly" gear shouldn't be like when a lightning sorceress gets "Infinity." Balancing these better would help cut down on the need to run bosses for 3 weeks before even thinking of a melee character, and would also level the playing field in PVP so it's not just a rich man's game.


    3. Immunities
    Concept-wise, immunities are great. However, the way they were implemented was poor. Tons of monsters jump from having no resistance whatsoever to being completely immune to an element in Hell, with no explanation as to why they would even resist it in the slightest. Even for monsters that do have resistance from the start, it gets ridiculous when a simple fallen takes no damage from a meteor. And then there are the problems with everyone being pretty much forced to use a secondary skill or 1-point wonder. Seems rather dumb when even concentrate barbs are forced to use berserk, its polar opposite. And if things are immune because it would make -res way overpowered, why are you able to get that much -res to begin with?


    4. Skills and synergies
    One-point wonders, useless low-level skills, and skills used only as synergies- Why do any of these exist? If a skill exists, it has to have an actual purpose, and it must have a reason for the player to invest more than a single point into it.


    5. Item costs (NPCs)
    Really, why on earth is Akara in Act 1 selling wands that cost more gold than you can even HAVE at that point in the game? And then of course are the crappy rare and magic armors that sell for a fortune, while the godliest uniques sell for pocket change. Not a major problem, but still makes you go "what the crap."
     
  2. phool

    phool Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    1. This isn't a problem. Instead adjust how reflected damage is dealt with vs players.
    2. agree
    3. I think resistances should be capped at 95, maybe 90% in monsters. That still leaves it unfeasible to kill them but if you absolutely HAVE to you don't have to reroll bosses until your char gets something you can actually scratch. -resistance would probably have to be adjusted accordingly.
    4. one point wonders are completely fine with me. Not fond of useless skills, obviously, though a lot less skills are useless than you might think.
    5. meh who cares

    6. being able to view games in difficulties other than your current.
    7. tppk, duping, breakpoints hack, etc
    8. charms
    9. a few other stuff that doesn't come to mind right now.
     
  3. JohnnyDeath

    JohnnyDeath Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    Nice rundown, I especially agree with 2 and 4.

    Shops. Why are all these shops selling crappy magical armors/weapons? Is there some group of crappy enchanters putting these on the street? Why can't a blacksmith sell a plain sword?

    Gold. At endgame, its only purpose is to revive your merc and restock on scrolls/potions. Why not give us something useful to spend it on? Maybe pgems, sockets, etc..
     
  4. yukisho

    yukisho Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    As you said Johnny, that's what gold is sueed for and for when/if you die you don't lose alot of xp so you keep a plethera of gold on you and in your stash to cover for the losses.
     
  5. moranor

    moranor Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    I like godly items being godly
    That's what makes you want them so much
     
  6. Majaii

    Majaii Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    I am probably the only one who thinks this way, but I don't like teleport. I do understand it's usefulness for a sorc, but if we still had teleport, don't pass it on like enigma.
     
  7. JohnnyDeath

    JohnnyDeath Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    And, in effect, creates botters, dupes, etc..


     
  8. Cast_Raider

    Cast_Raider Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    I've never been really thrilled by the whole attack rating/defense thing. If someone is standing in front of me, I promise you 100% I can hit them, even though I have never swung a sword with the intent to harm another human being. Give me 10 chances, and I will smack them 10 times.

    Now if you ask me if I hurt the person wearing the armor, well no, probably not very much. Especially if it's really good armor. I guess what I'm saying is, defense ought to boost physical resistance, not the % chance to hit. When something is right in your face, it ought to be nearly 100% chance every time.

    Now for archers I might keep AR. Ideally I'd like to see arrows flying somewhat crooked and missing their target (or not hitting dead center) if a person has low AR.

    But there is one thing I hate even more--having great gear, and a maxed attack skill, and high AR--but you still can't connect many hits because you haven't leveled enough, relative to the monster's level.
     
  9. Telzen

    Telzen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    Think of it like this:

    Your skill with a weapon vs. their ability to dodge the attack.

    also I very much hope they fix this one:

    6. being able to view games in difficulties other than your current.
     
  10. phool

    phool Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    I think I agree level difference has too great an impact on cth. Packing lots of ar should let you get away with being a significently lower level.
     
  11. JohnnyDeath

    JohnnyDeath Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    I hope they overhaul B.net somewhat. It sucks having to type /w soandso while you're in a game. Chat integration couldn't be that hard to implement, could it?
     
  12. Techboss

    Techboss Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    Here is my list:

    1. Different quests for Nightmare and Hell as to add some variety.
    2. Nerf rushing
    3. Fix dupes, hacks, etc.
    4. Add a way to respec
    5. Drops more in line with where they are in the game
    6. Either more skill points or lower caps so that you can be more rounded and less concentrated with skills. Skills need to also be fairly useful from beginning the game till end game.
    7. Use for gold
     
  13. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    Fix dupes and hacks, like you should have done in D2...
     
  14. Machina

    Machina Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    Nice post.

    I completely agree with you on 1,3 & 5 and could be persuaded either way on 4. I disagree with 2 though - the fact that high-end gear is so powerful and initialliy hard to achieve gives people something to work towards and adds to the longevity of the game.

    As others have said, hacking/duping is a major problem they need to tackle. Possibly the most important issue of all.



     
  15. sbn

    sbn Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    Surprised nobody has mention these:

    1. Temp bans. Sure I see the logic behind them...somewhat. But the application of them is just plain screwed up. You can run around in a game for an hour, leave and get immediately logged out of Bnet. Yet people can run in and out of games transferring (not to mention all the *#&@ Baal bots) and nothing happens. On a few occasions I have had the fortunate luck of entering a game, then leaving to enter a different game for it to crash because of someone's torch...oops now I am temp banned. What I would like to see is a more clearly stated and defined system. I am not proposing to do away with them, just merely to have them applied in a proper manner.

    2. No point harping on dupes and hacks etc.. But the method they patched to prevent lag duping has one real added bonus. Grab a zon, go enter a game and start using strafe or multi-shot with a torch and you will know what I mean. I was never more disappointed when I finally got for myself my own paladin torch, only to find that now I very easily will crash a game. Same for my Druid. Now we will not have this issue in D3. Probably won't be torches, and they certainly will code in better anti-hack methods.

    But my point is when a problem does arise, my desire is they actually correct the issue without degrading gameplay for everyone else. We cannot foresee what will occur in D3, but we know that some issues will arise. My hope is they can correct them without a significant cost to us.

    3. Do away with something as idiotic as Dclone/sell those duped SOJs. Again, we won't have Dclone or maybe even SOJs. But here again let's have some logic before implementing something. Is there ANY better incentive to dupe SOJs than to spawn Dclone? Did anyone at Blizzard even think this one through? Let's hope with D3 a little more logical thought process is applied to the game

    4. My biggest and most important desire: I want to see an in game filter and better policy towards offensive and racist behavior. There is nothing more than makes me sometimes just despise people who play this game than having to listen to some *#@& 15 year old sprout language that is just downright trash. I should be able to enter a game and not have to listen to some little racist or anti-semite.

    It is beyond sad and pathetic that the number one insult that people seem to use is to say the word that is most offensive to African-Americans. This should never be allowed, period. I am 110% Wasp (White-Anglo-Saxon-Protestant), yet I find it personally disgusting the ease at which people who play this game use such words. Nor should anyone ever be able to make a character name that is offensive to any race, sex, ethnic group, or religion. I have always enjoyed in other games I have played seeing little *#&@ get booted the instant they say something offensive. There is no reason why this can not be implemented in D3

    Talking about temp bans, well I want to see when some little SOB calls someone a (insert offensive insult) to be immediately kicked off the game for a period of time and not able to log back in.

    Maybe some of you 15 year olds find language like that "cool" or the "in-thing" to use. Sorry, you are grossly ignorant to think this way. Those of us mature adults should not have to put up with such immature and pathetic behavior EVER.
     
  16. Dimmu

    Dimmu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    I recall someone saying PvP is a "rich man's game" and think people misunderstand what actually goes on.
    It may be that I'm one of the "rich people" that everyone hates but nobody seems to realize the effect that duping has on the entire economy. Everything roots from duping, no question. You can mf all you want and maybe one day you'll find that CoA you've been looking for. However, the reality is that there are people out there that have a hundred 2/15/30/399 CoAs and you didn't have a chance to begin with.
    I love d2 PvP and in a sense, yea it is a rich man's game because there is a lot of rich guy stuff out there thanks to dupers. Duping should be the first and foremost problem to resolve on diablo 3. Maphackers, botters, etc, nothing even compares to the mass duping network in terms of having the upper hand.
    Just throwin it out there.
     
  17. stillman

    stillman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    I like this thread. Number 5 in particular reminds me of how thoughtless Blizzard can be. For instance, they increased Durance by some HUGE amount; the map is just ridiculously big. I'm guessing they did this to slow down Meph boss runs. So then what do they do? They invent Nigma so everyone can just skip all of durance in a few seconds and get right to Meph. This makes me wonder if Blizzard knows what they're doing.

    About the immune issue though, I believe some of the immunes ARE explained or at least chosen in a sensible manner. For instance, fallen are imune to fire perhaps because they are demons, maybe from hell where it is firey or becasue their shamen have firebolt. Deadly swarms are immune to physical because realisticly, you can't expect to kill a million bugs by swinging a scimitar at them. And many hell skellies are immune to poison maybe because they have no blood circulation, and so on. Other monsters however seem to have just random, unrelatable immunities tossed on to them. Why are spearwomen imune to lightning? Hmmm..I guess their spears must conduct a lot of electricity in natural lightning storms, lol.

    Here are a few things I'd like to add to the list:

    A lot of elite uniques have stamina bonuses attached to them. You'd think by the time those items got designed Blizzard would have figgured out that stamina is completely useless and stamina mods don't matter.

    Speaking of elite uniques, what is with all those crappy unique exceptional and elite weapons that keep dropping. Cranium basher, stonecrusher, lightning spire, headstriker, warlord's trust, gavel of pain...All worth virtually nothing in trade. Dozens of them, rigorously designed for nothing except for those lucky poor players who just happen to be playing a sword barb and just happen to get an elite unique sword when they are level 35. What I'm saying is, by the time these weapons drop, the fighter is too high level to want to use them.

    There was some very poor original skill design. Static used to be ridiculously overpowered, then it got nerfed so that in hell it seems almost useless given the number of times you need to cast it, the 50% life cut-off point point and the speed of monster regeneration. Imo, any spell that reduces monster's life by a percentage like CE is just going to be a problem balance wise.

    You loose a percentage of gold when you die; it disappears from your stash. To bypass this, you can just drop all your gold on the gorund by your stash while you fight a boss where you anticipate the chance of dying. Then, when you die, you don't lose any gold.

    Nm mode is often easier than normal, because by the time you get to nm you have some serious investment in your skills. This is especially true for casters. So for many of us, the game doesn't really even begin until hell mode.

    There are only 5 offensive spell choices on the sorc cold skill tree. We have no selection here and therefore have no choice but to become cookie cutters.

    Every single sorc out there must have infinity. Otherwise, they'd have to be hybrids which drastically reduces their damage. If they choose to be hybrids, it would still be an extreme benefit to have infinity. Thus, infinity is a central item for literally every sorc. There is no alternative item, and it would be foolish not to use it if you can afford it. No variation here at all.

    In the original version, you could have 20+ skellies, 20+ mages, and 20+ revives and a golem. Then, you could have 8 of these necros in the same game, same party....What the hell were they thinking?

    The act 2 merc has a natural aura. The other act merc's don't. Can anyone see a reason to use another act merc? The AI on the Act 1 merc is Ok though, making her survive better.

    Merc's are too retarded with the inability to notice fire, feel pain, navigate, run away, etc.

    The AI on bone spirit is very poor. Often you see 10 bone spirits going towards a wall when there is a screen full of monsters nearby.

    The golems look very bad, except the clay golem.

    We have wands that do more damage than a giant two handed axe.

    Armor was a complete disaster in d2. We have cloth that is more defensive than a full suit of metal armor. We have feathers and furs also somehow stronger than steel. The necro's armor looks like a cross between a children's Halloween skeleton constume and those ruber suits on that Batman and Robin movie. Barbarian's full plate looks like cruddy scraps of different things. Purple armor looks very silly and plastic (Tal's, rattlecage).

    Normal mode too easy. A lev 1 naked sorc can kill a fallen with one punch every time.

    Leeching experience was once highly frowned apon. Now, it is endorced.

    Blizzard does not support the xfer of items, yet they design their game so we all benefit tremendously by xfering items.

    What's a necromancer doing fighting with the forces of light?

    Why would a paladin support the necromancer's use of dead heros? Why does the paladin defile undefiled graves?

    To many others to mention...
     
  18. Tsumaru

    Tsumaru Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    Stillman - can I just point out that a small number of yours are a little irrelevant to D3. Not all of them, and those which aren't are often good points. But yeah, just as a note to anyone else posting in the thread - you probably don't need to complain about the crappy character model appearance of necromancers and golems, or the bad implementation of specific skills like Bone Spirit.

    As for myself, I have very few criticisms. I'm quite predominantly a Single Player gamer, and so don't encounter a lot of the problems that some of you do. I do agree with the criticism of NPCs selling items which cost more money not only than you could possibly have at that point in the game - but even twice as much gold as you could fit in your stash (yes I know you can hold on your character, but I'm just making a comparison). That was just weird.
    Also someone commented about the absurdity of a blacksmith not selling a normal sword. I agree on this point too. I remember being in Act 3 and still not having found a plain item worth getting Charsi to imbue. If they have any quest rewards which involve imbuing or socketing which can only be done on non-magical items; it would be nice to see some items which have, for example, high defense or attack but no other special magic stuff. Most of the times I don't even get Charsi to imbue because there's never anything worth imbuing, and the results are rarely very good. This kind of thing should be avoided in D3.

    I don't agree about the skills and synergies point though. The reason most skills don't get used and appear to be useless is just the personal playing style of most people. Nobody really wants to, for example, scare away monsters so they don't attack when they could put those skill points into some damage-dealing skill. And obviously the earlier skills in the tree have to be less effective compared to the later ones or there's no point getting the later ones. Synergies, however, are good because they make most skills useful if only for the sole purpose of boosting your main skill. Without synergies, half the skill tree becomes useless once you get your main skill.
    What I would rather see is being able to get *more* skills to be able to use. I have a feeling that they have already worked on this. Don't we see something like a skill rank in the gameplay trailer where it's only out of 5? I don't know if I approve of just 5 levels, but this will mean by level 40; instead of having two maxed (or nearly maxed) out skills - you will be able to have 5 or so. I would love to see more versatility in being able to play a character. I mean, most people who play Paladin just go Zeal, Holy Shield and Fanaticism and that's about it. Barbarian is Fury and Battle Orders. There are these skills which are significantly better than the others; and with only so many possible skills you can max out, everyone just goes for them. If we can have more skills able to be used per player, that would be a lot more versatile and fun.
     
  19. Sincubus

    Sincubus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    Humor like the stupid cow level only takes up precious space and design time... they should leave out the stupid warcraft humor and just make this game 100% serious and evil.

    Warcraft is for humor, Diablo is serious and evil.
     
  20. Tsumaru

    Tsumaru Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: D2 issues that need to be fixed for D3

    Umm... Warcraft humour? I gotta tell you, the Secret Cow Level in D2 comes from all the rumours in the first Diablo game that there was a secret cow level. I think Blizzard puts these little easter eggs in any game, and I don't see why any one should be more serious or less serious than the other. I personally appreciate the storyline of all games, and don't see why Warcraft is supposedly for humour where Diablo is not.
     

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