d2 economics....

darkelf512

Diabloii.Net Member
d2 economics....

so..i was trading today and there was a lil argument. and i thought it would be interesting to make a off topic thread discussing d2 economics...

me: ::selling items 4 real cheap::

(sumone#1): It's people like you that **** up the economy on USEast

...I agree that helping out newer people is good, but when all the items that used to be godly and are still really nice (Oculus, Arkaine's Valor, Windforce) are worth practically nothing, while the new item's prices (CoA, Nigma, hoto) are getting higher and higher... I used to be able to get a WF for 40 Soj, and that was the norm. Now you need 6 P-WF's for 1 P hoto, Up to 9 P-WF's for an Archon Nigma, without any specific defense, and 10-14 P-WF's for a P-CoA... All the giving away and cheap selling of the items is really messing up trading...

(sumone#2): Prepare to be enlightened on simple economics.

At what rate do items in Diablo 2 enter the economy?
It's linear upwards. Every day the total number of each item goes up.

At what rate do items in Diablo 2 leave the game?
Unless it's a crafting material, they don't.

At what rate is the playerbase growing/declining?
It is stable right now - This game is getting old.

Do you see the problem with your logic yet?

The value of every single item drops every single day. Just because its slow enough that you don't notice it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Why do you think PGems have become standard currency? Because they leave the economy.

Next time you feel like lashing out, lash out at the lack of a ladder reset. (Which is only a temporary solution). Without a reset, eventually every item will be worth nothing.

me: (sumone#1)- i am sorry if u dun like me trading items 4 low prices but

1. if ur on a quest for righting wrongs, stop ppl from duping hrs, that is the biggest problem of the d2 economy
2. i'm not the only one 2 trade items cheaply, y pick on me =(
3. economies rely and supply and demand, since the supply of items is so high (ladder has gone on for a while) the demand has gone down
4. if ur annoyed, i understand. of course i would like my items to get their full trade value as well but i simply do not have the time. if u want..i willl trade u all these items all 4 say...2ists? then u can either sell them to akara to preserve the economy or sell them at normal price.

lol, note to neone who cares. this is strangly a good representation of the US economy. with the rise of outsourcing high tech to india/china, and manufacturing jobs to mexico/south america. things are getting cheaper and cheaper but at the same time it is causing US employment to take a hit. the globilzation of the world is generally viewed as a good thing throughout the world, but until the US finds sumthing a niche in the market economy...bleh


soooooo....ne thoughts, comments in general about d2 economics? and a comparison to the world?
 

ziggy7483

Diabloii.Net Member
I think it is a little overreaching to compare d2 economy to the world economy.

I agree with that someone #2 about d2. Even the value of pgems is threatening to fall if folks start trading forty of them for Puls instead of Ums. But that is the way it works. I remember in 1.09 on USEast it was easier to unload 40 Perfect Gems for a soj during the late night hours on the East Coast US. I don't know if that is what was really going on, or just an error in perception, but there seemed to be more "brg 40 pgems" and lvl 90's cruising the gem trade channel. The d2 economy is just doing what it wants to do natually, and that is stagnate.


-Off-Topic Contribution-
About the world, the US still employs a lot of grunt work manufacturing and labor jobs. Why else would we have such an illegal immigration crisis? While it is true that US businesses pack up and go overseas, there are a good amount of foreign businesses setting up shop and "insourcing" jobs. I think the world economy is much too complex for any individual to explain it. Even the US economy is too complex for our dude Alan Greenspan. He's been raising some rates, but doesn't know why it isn't making that much of a ripple. It's my opinion that unexplainable weird stuff in economics is dangerous.
 

Sh4dovv

Banned
prices are always going up and down

this always happens to me;

i see 10 ppl offering 10'x' for item 'y'

i then see someone in a pub game selling item y for 7'x'

(me) wow i can make profit here [buys for 7x]

next thing i try to sell, a heap of ppl are now selling them for 6x...after 1 week i sell for 6x


then next week they back up to 10x again! :mad:
 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
I don't think that the number of items increase linearly. It's more like this: Depending on supply and demand, the number of each item increases until there is a certain saturation and the number of freshly found (or duped :rolleyes: ) items is as high as the number of items which disappear (thrown away, accidents, mule expiration, poofing, crafting/cubing gems/runes etc.).

I didn't increase the number of my mules for a few months now, so for myself, there already is a kind of saturation regarding the total number of items I have.

The total number of kept items probably decreases at the moment because a lot of character expire these days.
 

derderderderderk

Diabloii.Net Member
number of new characters (not mules) increases each day (although the rate is most likely drecreasing) so i suppose there's still demand for items

but indeed...agree with what you say, unless there's a ladder reset...items are gradually gonna worth nothing sooner or later...in USwest...you can now get a pul for 2x pgems...wasn't it 40 before...now i've seen 40 pgems for um...then again i don't think people would want a ladder reset...at least i would quit haha
 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
After a certain time, the number of characters of each player will reach a maximum. Some people keep the number of characters to a certain value, stripping and deleting unused characters (wise decision !) while others forget to refresh them sooner or later, so they expire (not so wise). You can't keep an infinite number of characters because the more you have, the more time you need for administrating them or just for keeping them from expiring. This happens to mules and indirectly to muled stuff as well. That means that there is a maximum for everybody and long-time players probably have already reached that maximum.

For example, I already lost all my ex ladder character due to neglect (although they were stripped of any equipment) and only a handful of my non-ladder mules haven't expired yet (after I sold or gave away the valuable stuff as well).

You will agree that less people are playing the game than let's say 3 years ago. I guess that the percentage of long-time players has increased since then, but lets assume the distribution of all the different types of players (with respect to hoarding habits) has remained the same. In that case, the number of characters and accounts is proportional to the of players. as the number of items is also proportional to the number of characters, the number of items decreases atm.

I'm just talking about items which are kept, of course.
 
that guy was a few fries short of a happy meal. o.0 i remember that. =o

if someone really thinks you're messing up the economy, and your prices are so low, why don't they buy the items and sell for profit?

i'm sorry he chose you to accuse, there are quite a few people who make similar lists and can avoid scenarios like that.

the facts are, some prices have to fall - the economy isn't "perfect" where an item can have a given price and people stick to that. sometimes you need to lower prices to sell items which are becoming less popular.

^^
 

g00tch

Diabloii.Net Member
Also don't forget that it's a fake economy, thus having no effect on anything whatsoever.
 

HardyTarget

Diabloii.Net Member
I noticed this happened in USEast. Every realm has giveaways though, including those who sell items cheaper sometimes than the general value.
I haven't noticed this effecting in prices in any way on Europe Ladder.
HR's seem to have dropped about an ist but that's the only change I've seen recently.
SoJ is still ist + um , pgems are still 20-pul, 40-um, WF is still ~ mal, and it has been like this for several months.
If the prices are dropping, they're doing it slowly enough for my tastes.
 

Licwid

Diabloii.Net Member
darkelf512 said:
The value of every single item drops every single day.
If the value of every item drops at the same rate which is what your logic is pointing to, then they are still the same price relatively to each other. That would not change a thing. So if people still find the same items at the same rate while dupers dupe them at the same rate, then that's not the reason they are changing in price. The only reasons I can see why items change price are:

A) Dupers decide, "Oh, this item seems to be worth a whole crapload. Maybe I should only dupe this item." In that case, the item becomes rather common and starts to lower in price. They repeat the process with a new item. If people can actually just dupe like that, which I'm assuming, then in the end it will even out because everyone item gets its turn to suddenly become so common.

B) The average b.net idiot starts realizing how truly great or rare an item is and it starts becoming popular. For example, when I traded off the near perfect Griffon's that I found, perfect Griffon's were going for roughly 10 ists. I made games trying to trade it off and I even got responses from the ignorant like "omg dum n00b i thot u waz gona show u teh godlyz gim teh 1337 haxx0r runewords". Since then the price of perfect Griffon's have gone up like crazy, and I haven't seen anyone selling their's for less than 15 HRs.

Those are the only reasons I can think of, but there are probably some more possibilities.

Edit: Wow, that was a long post. I expected to write just a couple sentences when I clicked the reply button. :lol:
 
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