D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

[Akse]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

I've seen pictures of the skill tree, and IMO, it looks like the skill tree from WoW.

haha lol ok. Some of the skills and all of the icons are place holders. What will it look like in the release, we can't know.

The skills in there have a lot different meaning and effect to your character than what WoW talents are about.

 

[DarkChaos]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

the V:

I think you'll find that you are overdoing it. I played D2 classic and migrated to LoD, and always loved rares, and still do because they are truly unique. However, you missed some rather important points about LoD:

In the earlier releases of LoD (1.07 - which was not available on BNet but proves that at one point LoD was designed this way), rares were even better than they were in classic, when compared to the other available gear. There were also, and still are, crafted items which were often the best in-slot (cruel weapons with 3 sockets and the like).

Come 1.09, things shifted toward a more unique/set/runeword oriented item choice - however, the best in-slots were often magic items. Does anyone remember the cubed Cruel Colossus Blades with 3 sockets?

Even in 1.10+, still, there are quite a few slots where uniques/sets/runewords are not the be-all end-all. Rare and crafted gloves, boots, sometimes belts can be a lot better than unique/set versions.

There are quite a few more as well - you say Mara's Kaleidoscope, I say a crafted caster amulet. You say Harlequin Crest - I say a gambled rare circlet. You say runeword weapons - I say a self-repairing ethereal rare which is comparable to BotD. Rarer than BotD or the respective unique? Of course! But you said so yourself, we are considering the absolute best in-slots.

LoD has a lot more variety than you make it out to have, if you know where to look. I hope D3 will have variety as well and not turn into a diablo-version of WoW but I disagree with you here that many classic players will not like D3.

 

[Gonzo]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

There are quite a few more as well - you say Mara's Kaleidoscope, I say a crafted caster amulet. You say Harlequin Crest - I say a gambled rare circlet. You say runeword weapons - I say a self-repairing ethereal rare which is comparable to BotD. Rarer than BotD or the respective unique? Of course! But you said so yourself, we are considering the absolute best in-slots.

It's pointless to discuss item balance based on what is prohibitively rare since the vast majority of people will never see them.

Rares should be more straightforwardly powerful, uniques should present some trade-off to the player in exchange for "unique" powers.

 

[DarkChaos]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

It's pointless to discuss item balance based on what is prohibitively rare since the vast majority of people will never see them.

Rares should be more straightforwardly powerful, uniques should present some trade-off to the player in exchange for "unique" powers.

The OP himself said we are considering the best of the best, not for "casual" players. The truly hardcore players will not use only uniques/sets/runewoods.

 

[AniMe]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

The rare system of Classic is what made me play Classic to the very end; the release of the dreaded patch 1.10, which killed Classic.

There was always this little butterfly flapping it's wing in my stomach whenever a yellow Gothic Bow, Executioner Sword, Lance, Ornate Plate or whatever would drop.. Would this be crap or would this be awesomeness?? I would never know!

In LoD I just got bored... I got this and that and now my Sorceress looks just like everybody elses... "Hey nice item, I got the exact same one!".. Bleh, there's just no identity on characters anymore.. ;/

Come on people, be individuals!

LoD has been fun but there has never been any thrill in it...

The D2 Classic HC duels meant I would lose my char and items or win another persons items... That was intense!

In LoD I just brought up a char, tossed on the best uniques and perhaps scored a few kills, then died. In three days I was back with the same items and level 90.

;/ No thrill... At all..

 

[Gonzo]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

The OP himself said we are considering the best of the best, not for "casual" players. The truly hardcore players will not use only uniques/sets/runewoods.

Most of them won't see the items you described either. You can parse language all you want but it's obvious what the OP means.

 

[the V]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

the V:

I think you'll find that you are overdoing it. I played D2 classic and migrated to LoD, and always loved rares, and still do because they are truly unique. However, you missed some rather important points about LoD:

In the earlier releases of LoD (1.07 - which was not available on BNet but proves that at one point LoD was designed this way), rares were even better than they were in classic, when compared to the other available gear. There were also, and still are, crafted items which were often the best in-slot (cruel weapons with 3 sockets and the like).

Come 1.09, things shifted toward a more unique/set/runeword oriented item choice - however, the best in-slots were often magic items. Does anyone remember the cubed Cruel Colossus Blades with 3 sockets?

Even in 1.10+, still, there are quite a few slots where uniques/sets/runewords are not the be-all end-all. Rare and crafted gloves, boots, sometimes belts can be a lot better than unique/set versions.

There are quite a few more as well - you say Mara's Kaleidoscope, I say a crafted caster amulet. You say Harlequin Crest - I say a gambled rare circlet. You say runeword weapons - I say a self-repairing ethereal rare which is comparable to BotD. Rarer than BotD or the respective unique? Of course! But you said so yourself, we are considering the absolute best in-slots.

LoD has a lot more variety than you make it out to have, if you know where to look. I hope D3 will have variety as well and not turn into a diablo-version of WoW but I disagree with you here that many classic players will not like D3.

Some decent points, but weapons and armor are the main character defining slots, and in LOD, almost 100% of the time means rune word or unique. I wanna see rare weapons be on top more than anything, as they were in classic.

the V:

Rares should be more straightforwardly powerful, uniques should present some trade-off to the player in exchange for "unique" powers.

^ Exactly.

 

[Akse]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

The most disappointing thing what came after LOD was that the quality of rares were somewhat lowered, item levels was higher and the drop rates of quality rares where really really low.

In this season I've made a 72 sorc and ** barb and the best weapon mods I've found was 166% ED 180 ar and some 3rd mod.. on a freaking FALCHION in hell act4. Thats so frustrating. When the chances to find good rare mods are already low they beat us down again with the crappy items that now drop in hell. I remember before LOD when it was rare to see a normal item drop in Hell act4, now normal items seem to drop more than exceptional.

 

[Bryan]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

Yes, this would make sense, but Blizzard is the one who gave yellow items the name 'rare.' The truly unique items (yellow text) should have been properly called 'unique' and the gold texted items should've been the ones titled 'rare.'

As for my post title, I'm just assuming that Blizzard is going to pick up D3 where LOD left off. There isn't really enough information out there yet to be sure, but I think it's a safe assumption that the best items in the game will be uniques (gold text) and rune words - items that everyone can match identically with other players, limiting the exclusiveness of your character.

My guess is it will be like LOD and World of Warcraft, where if you know someone's class and level (time played), you'll be able to guess exactly what gear they have. Most people probably don't have a problem with that, but when I put a lot of time into a game, I like to stand out from the rest of the pack, not just be another clone with the same rune words and item setups.

As an example for those who don't understand the way it worked in classic, here's a collection of battle hammers I had:

http://yfrog.com/05vendalhammersp

It took an unbelievable amount of time and effort, but when I was done collecting, I had an array of items that nobody else could ever duplicate (without cheating of course), and they were some of the best items in the game. These are the kind of items that classic was built off of, and there weren't any 400% enhanced damage uniques or rune words to make these near-perfect modded, one of a kind rares obsolete.

This post has it.

Check out those BHammers! Now that was when Diablo 2 was fun.

When we all had a shot at finding something brand new and unbelievable.

 

[Krugar]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

Check out those BHammers! Now that was when Diablo 2 was fun.

When we all had a shot at finding something brand new and unbelievable.

The problem is that not everybody agrees with this. So the solution may lie somewhere in between.

 

[Death_of_Angels]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

My guess is it will be like LOD and World of Warcraft, where if you know someone's class and level (time played), you'll be able to guess exactly what gear they have. Most people probably don't have a problem with that, but when I put a lot of time into a game, I like to stand out from the rest of the pack, not just be another clone with the same rune words and item setups.

This statement is completely false. Jay Wilson specifically said in Blizzcast 8 that the exact opposite would happen. There won't be a be all end all set for each class in D3, and there never has been in any diablo game. D3 will bring much more variety than D2 ever could, primarily because the engines that the game is using are so much more advanced, as they should be considering that it's been over a decade since D2 was first released.

Also, on your point of uniques making your perfectly modded rares obsolete; they should, as by definition uniques are better than rares. I think the simple solution to fix what you disagree with so much is to add an item class that works like a rare, in that the mods roll randomly, but that will always role more mods with similar or better quality to the uniques of D2. Oh wait! that's what crafted items are! although they don't always roll more and better mods than uniques, the best, and rarest, item in the game are the crafted items with the better mods. Nobody can disagree with that.

 

[Gonzo]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

Also, on your point of uniques making your perfectly modded rares obsolete; they should, as by definition uniques are better than rares.

No, by definition they are uniquely different.

 

[Krugar]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

No, by definition they are uniquely different.

No. By Diablo definition Uniques are the best items in the game. Particularly elite uniques.

We can play the semantics game forever. I suggest we move on to better argumentation.

 

[Gonzo]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

No. By Diablo definition Uniques are the best items in the game.

How could you possibly support that? I could present a litany of unique items that are not the best from both Diablo 1 and Diablo 2, but instead only have different modifiers from what you can find from magic and rare items in the same slot. Uniques present "unique" power to the item/player, it's as simple as that.

 

[Krugar]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

How could you possibly support that? I could present a litany of unique items that are not the best from both Diablo 1 and Diablo 2

And I can present a litany of others which are and have no match whatsoever in possible rare drops. Particularly (but not exclusively) elite uniques. So what is your point?

 

[Gonzo]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

And I can present a litany of others which are and have no match whatsoever in possible rare drops. Particularly (but not exclusively) elite uniques. So what is your point?

All that's needed is one example to render your definition incorrect.

 

[Krugar]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

LOL!
My definition? You are the one trying to establish a semantics context to Uniques. I'm not even in that league, my friend. I'm more concerned with how these items will be balanced towards the endgame.

If the best of the best rares can't compete with the best of the best Uniques, there's only one conclusion to be drawn. For some reason you don't want to draw that conclusion. And that is pretty awkward because you are now saying rares are better than Uniques, which kinda is not what you want to say. Is it?

 

[Gonzo]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

If the best of the best rares can't compete with the best of the best Uniques, there's only one conclusion to be drawn. For some reason you don't want to draw that conclusion.

The conclusion isnt "Uniques are defined as being better than rares in Diablo," the conclusion is "Endgame uniques are better than rares in LoD."

And that is pretty awkward because you are now saying rares are better than Uniques, which kinda is not what you want to say. Is it?

Saying that "Uniques are not defined as being better than rares" is not the same as saying "Rares are better than uniques."

A conclusion isn't a definition. You have serious comprehension issues. Maybe you should learn what a definition is.

 

[Krugar]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

You have serious comprehension issues.

Yes. I agree. I cannot understand you at all.

/end

 

[Enigmers]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

The best items in the game should not be set/uniques/rune words (or at least not in every slot), but items that are truly one of a kind and randomly generated.

I agree wholeheartedly. I think this would be a great way to eliminate the duped-ness of high runes, and encourage people to use the items they find. In that sense, I like surprises.