D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

[the V]

D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

There's a good chance that the majority of people who played D2 Classic will not enjoy D3 as much as those who played LOD. Hopefully I don't go on for too long so people will actually read this.

There's a reason we played classic over LOD, and since the game is going from D2 Classic -> D2 LOD -> D3, we can assume that most of the things about LOD will be included in the first version of D3.

What made D2 Classic special were the rare quality items (yellow name). These were the items that were truly unlike anything anyone else had, because of their random mods. A few set items and uniques are okay, but LOD took it to the next level. Rune words and certain "uniques" were so godly that you couldn't really use anything else. Everyone ended up wearing the same stuff, generally.

D2 Classic was a beautiful thing because you could literally go out and not know whether you were going to find an item of extreme quality that nobody else has, or ever could have - and the item would be more than viable because there wouldn't be any obscene uniques or rune words.

I just pray that D3 will be more like good old Diablo II (when it first came out, classic), and less like LOD or World of Warcraft. The best items in the game should not be set/uniques/rune words (or at least not in every slot), but items that are truly one of a kind and randomly generated.

If the item of your dreams is something that you can find on the Blizzard website, it's not much of a dream. It's there, you just have to grind for it.

 

[rCt Arbitur]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

There's a good chance that the majority of people who played D2 Classic will not enjoy D3 as much as those who played LOD. Hopefully I don't go on for too long so people will actually read this.

There's a reason we played classic over LOD, and since the game is going from D2 Classic -> D2 LOD -> D3, we can assume that most of the things about LOD will be included in the first version of D3.

What made D2 Classic special were the rare quality items (yellow name). These were the items that were truly unlike anything anyone else had, because of their random mods. A few set items and uniques are okay, but LOD took it to the next level. Rune words and certain "uniques" were so godly that you couldn't really use anything else. Everyone ended up wearing the same stuff, generally.

D2 Classic was a beautiful thing because you could literally go out and not know whether you were going to find an item of extreme quality that nobody else has, or ever could have - and the item would be more than viable because there wouldn't be any obscene uniques or rune words.

I just pray that D3 will be more like good old Diablo II (when it first came out, classic), and less like LOD or World of Warcraft. The best items in the game should not be set/uniques/rune words (or at least not in every slot), but items that are truly one of a kind and randomly generated.

If the item of your dreams is something that you can find on the Blizzard website, it's not much of a dream. It's there, you just have to grind for it.

I personally don't play D2 classic, i tried to play it once but it was to boring to start over again when i've just built up my wealth on D2X :thumbup:

But i do get your point and i kind of agree, finding a good item is always a rush but cause of all the dupes and warez sites items lose value as you can easily buy them cheap on a website. I guess that the fact that there won't be any dupes in D3 (atleast what i think) D2 classic chars should like it.

 

[Popeye]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

I understand what you say, but I don't agree with the supossed variety of the players through their items. Maybe in normal difficulty (or even nightmare) rare items where useful, but in higher difficulties you were always looking for some unique or set items.

 

[the V]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

I understand what you say, but I don't agree with the supossed variety of the players through their items. Maybe in normal difficulty (or even nightmare) rare items where useful, but in higher difficulties you were always looking for some unique or set items.

I hope you're not talking about classic. Uniques and sets were NOT the main target at higher difficulties, it was finding that 'rare' item with unbelievable mods. Did you even play classic? You probably don't realize how different classic and LOD are, if not.

I realize classic had probably 1/10th the population of LOD even at its best, so I understand I'm the minority here and most of you probably won't understand. Those who played classic certainly will, though. It was a different game.

 

[CBK]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

It's really rare for me to post... last time I did was a long time ago on the classic forum. I've been a classic player since I bought the game. In fact, like many other classic players, the expansion was only a resolution patch for me.

However, I disagree with you. In my opinion D2 classic players will love Diablo 3. For what I've seen so far they are not going in the same direction as they did with LOD(that is item wise). Could you elaborate more as to why you think it is the other way around?

 

[CaptainDingo]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

I'm pretty sure 90% of us played classic at some point in time. We all (well, I guess not all) moved on because LoD had more to do, more to find, more to experience.

I really don't know what you mean by rares being the shiznit. I played D2 from the day it came out up until I bought LoD, and I never remember being particularly happy about rares dropping.

"Oh look, vendor fodder" was my usual response. Or "Oh god, not another voulge!" but that's just a personal nightmare of mine. I mean, I never got very high-level, but.

In classic I sought the same things I seek in LoD; nice sets, nice uniques. The only difference is in LoD I have the option of building rune words once my sets and uniques aren't pulling their weight anymore.

In my mind, having to go seeking yellows in the high-end game of classic was a flaw, a flaw that was fixed with rune words. It makes no sense given that the hierarchy of items goes white > blue > yellow > unique > set (well, I guess set and unique is interchangeable depending on what set and what unique we're talking about, but regardless they should always be better than yellows given their relative rarity).

So the natural progression makes more sense to add something to the END of that, rather than going white > blue > yellow > unique > set > ...trashing your uniques/sets and wearing yellow again once you get high level? That doesn't make any sense. That's a distinct end-game gameplay issue when there's nothing bigger left to get a hold of so you have to actually downgrade your equipment to a lesser rarity level because it's sadly the best there is anymore. That's all end-game yellows were in classic, a "making the most out of what little we have" because Blizzard failed to give us more options before remedying it in LoD.

If I want a unique item that nobody else can have, I go to Anya and put my name on it. *Shrug*

 

[Deckard Cain]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

I would have to disagree that D2 classic players won't like D3, however i have to agree with your view of items. This discussion was brought up with one of the first topics by Flux (i can't really remember what those topics are called).

I will be very disappointed if rares are not the best item in the game, but i will play regardless.

Dingo, i understand the point you make but i would have to disagree because the items aren't necessarily better due to their position on the chain. Although there are many runewords that are better than uniques/rares etc, there are also uniques/sets/rares that are better than runewords. This can be said about any of items on the chain (a rare dual leech ring is better than a cathan's etc).

In classic rares might be more common than uniques, but it was all about finding that ELITE rare item (Lances were one of my favorites ) that didn't even compare to anything else in the game.

 

[AxlStrife]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

*passes out tissues*

EDIT: Because I'm nice, I'll throw my hat in the ring even though I HATE it when people cry over what is essentially spilled milk.

I agree that a super-high-rolled rare should be more powerful than the best rolled unique, just as it is in D2. I don't agree with the notion that D3 should have more focus on rares than uniques. I'd love to see more uniques with rolls similar to Ormus' Robes skill roll or Rainbow Facet roll.

 

[CBK]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

I'm pretty sure 90% of us played classic at some point in time. We all (well, I guess not all) moved on because LoD had more to do, more to find, more to experience.

I really don't know what you mean by rares being the shiznit. I played D2 from the day it came out up until I bought LoD, and I never remember being particularly happy about rares dropping.

"Oh look, vendor fodder" was my usual response. Or "Oh god, not another voulge!" but that's just a personal nightmare of mine. I mean, I never got very high-level, but.

In classic I sought the same things I seek in LoD; nice sets, nice uniques. The only difference is in LoD I have the option of building rune words once my sets and uniques aren't pulling their weight anymore.

In my mind, having to go seeking yellows in the high-end game of classic was a flaw, a flaw that was fixed with rune words. It makes no sense given that the hierarchy of items goes white > blue > yellow > unique > set (well, I guess set and unique is interchangeable depending on what set and what unique we're talking about, but regardless they should always be better than yellows given their relative rarity).

So the natural progression makes more sense to add something to the END of that, rather than going white > blue > yellow > unique > set > ...trashing your uniques/sets and wearing yellow again once you get high level? That doesn't make any sense. That's a distinct end-game gameplay issue when there's nothing bigger left to get a hold of so you have to actually downgrade your equipment to a lesser rarity level because it's sadly the best there is anymore. That's all end-game yellows were in classic, a "making the most out of what little we have" because Blizzard failed to give us more options before remedying it in LoD.

If I want a unique item that nobody else can have, I go to Anya and put my name on it. *Shrug*

That's the main difference. In classic sets and uniques cut it...until you are high level. Also, it's not about following the chain but more about that replayability and thrill rares give you. As long as it was something like a red breast plate dropping(and not those ugly voulges you have nightmares about) you were thrilled to know if it was a high fhr 40+ life triple resist armor that had just dropped, which looked sexy on any char and was a great item for pvp.

One main difference rares bring into the game is that uniques have set stats, while rares don't. If you recognized the animation of an unique item you may know what it is. Rares with awesome stats come in all shapes and colours. So you have that really big diversity of character looks plus when mf'ing it is easier to find rares rather than uniques, which means you can get the thrill of getting something good more often when you mf.

PS: What if someone inspect's you(am not going to say how)/see's your unique in trade and names it the same way? =P I don't think I ever saw a couple of rares with the same name in Diablo 2...nope never.

That's just my personal experience, as I've played both Classic and LOD very far in end game.

 

[blankblank]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

It's all in the name dude.

From Merriam-Webster

Rare - seldom occuring or found
Unique - being without a like or equal

Thus, Uniques should be more powerful than Rares.

Maybe they can change the name "Unique", since the items are not really uniques after all. If they want to stick to the name unique, maybe they can make "Uniques" really uniques, like only one Eye of the Oculus can exist within a realm.

 

[the V]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

It's all in the name dude.

From Merriam-Webster

Rare - seldom occuring or found
Unique - being without a like or equal

Thus, Uniques should be more powerful than Rares.

Maybe they can change the name "Unique", since the items are not really uniques after all. If they want to stick to the name unique, maybe they can make "Uniques" really uniques, like only one Eye of the Oculus can exist within a realm.

Yes, this would make sense, but Blizzard is the one who gave yellow items the name 'rare.' The truly unique items (yellow text) should have been properly called 'unique' and the gold texted items should've been the ones titled 'rare.'

As for my post title, I'm just assuming that Blizzard is going to pick up D3 where LOD left off. There isn't really enough information out there yet to be sure, but I think it's a safe assumption that the best items in the game will be uniques (gold text) and rune words - items that everyone can match identically with other players, limiting the exclusiveness of your character.

My guess is it will be like LOD and World of Warcraft, where if you know someone's class and level (time played), you'll be able to guess exactly what gear they have. Most people probably don't have a problem with that, but when I put a lot of time into a game, I like to stand out from the rest of the pack, not just be another clone with the same rune words and item setups.

As an example for those who don't understand the way it worked in classic, here's a collection of battle hammers I had:

http://yfrog.com/05vendalhammersp

It took an unbelievable amount of time and effort, but when I was done collecting, I had an array of items that nobody else could ever duplicate (without cheating of course), and they were some of the best items in the game. These are the kind of items that classic was built off of, and there weren't any 400% enhanced damage uniques or rune words to make these near-perfect modded, one of a kind rares obsolete.

 

[zaxxon]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

I have to admit that I'm pretty impressed by D2 at the moment. For example, for my sorceress there's a finite amount of unique gear I can use. For example, I will need to get some rare gloves, rings, and boots. Also, the runewords I want for some other pieces have heavy variety in possible mods, so it's entirely possible that I may have to collect a top notch runeword multiple times to get an acceptable (near perfect) item.

It's the newer (well, for me) 1.10 runewords that I'm impressed with. You can make one of those runewords and you could get a good item that's not worth much because the random mods didn't turn out well. In many ways, this is the same as a rare item roll, with the exception that even the crap runeword is still spectacular. I think it adds a lot of replayability.

 

[the V]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

I have to admit that I'm pretty impressed by D2 at the moment. For example, for my sorceress there's a finite amount of unique gear I can use. For example, I will need to get some rare gloves, rings, and boots. Also, the runewords I want for some other pieces have heavy variety in possible mods, so it's entirely possible that I may have to collect a top notch runeword multiple times to get an acceptable (near perfect) item.

It's the newer (well, for me) 1.10 runewords that I'm impressed with. You can make one of those runewords and you could get a good item that's not worth much because the random mods didn't turn out well. In many ways, this is the same as a rare item roll, with the exception that even the crap runeword is still spectacular. I think it adds a lot of replayability.

Be careful when you use the word replayability around Blizzard. We don't want a World of Warcraft grind game (hopefully they aren't planning on basing leveling on ridiculous questing, the Diablo series should remain a simple hack-and-slash). Rune words having random mods isn't the worst idea, but it would get old really fast if on your third or fourth attempt, the mod was still nowhere near perfect and you wasted more runes.

That's more of a grind. Whereas if you find a rare, you've given up nothing for it (other than time and the physical exertion of clicking your mouse), and you get a rush knowing that once you identify it, you could have a godly item on your hands. Even if it's bad, you haven't lost anything except for a scroll of identify, and you're not discouraged in any way.

 

[the V]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

Also, it's not about following the chain but more about that replayability and thrill rares give you. As long as it was something like a red breast plate dropping(and not those ugly voulges you have nightmares about) you were thrilled to know if it was a high fhr 40+ life triple resist armor that had just dropped, which looked sexy on any char and was a great item for pvp.
One main difference rares bring into the game is that uniques have set stats, while rares don't. If you recognized the animation of an unique item you may know what it is. Rares with awesome stats come in all shapes and colours. So you have that really big diversity of character looks plus when mf'ing it is easier to find rares rather than uniques, which means you can get the thrill of getting something good more often when you mf.

That's just my personal experience, as I've played both Classic and LOD very far in end game.

Excellent points, my man! Thank you.

 

[pimpsanater]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

Ok I don't know if this was brought up in this forum at all, I was to lazy to read it, however, maybe you don't know that much about LOD as you think you do. I say this because the truly godly players are not always looking for uniques, and runewords actually most the time they are not. Sets are nice for mediocre play, uniques can get you to a pretty high level of play, but honestly, godly players are looking for rare or crafted items, because they can be the best in the game. Rare belts=better than unique belts. Crafted belts=Definitely better than unique belts. Rare and crafted ammys are the same, and rings... and almost everything else. You might think uniques and runewords are all people look in for LOD but you have it wrong when it comes to being the best of the best. As a matter of fact, the best shield for a light sorc is a magical tower shield with 3 open sockets (faceted) and increase chance of blocking. Talk about a rare find, I've been playing for, well since the game came out and I have yet to find one. Helms are another thing that people look for non-uniques. Almost all of the best helms in the game for almost every class is a circlet. This is not to say that uniques and runewords cannot go on a godly build, because they can. However by blizzard creating LOD as an expansion I don't think that they created more cookie cutter builds, and concrete things to strive for, I believe that they created more variety at what can be done. A godly player will mix all of these things in their builds; rares, uniques, crafted, runewords, even magical. LOD truly did add more ways to personalize a character and if you think that uniques and runewords are the be all end all in LOD, you are wrong.

 

[Krugar]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

@pimpsnater:
Only a handful of slots can be interesting targets for Rares. And even so, most builds will make use of Uniques and Runewords. Rares are certainly not the option on the vast majority of cases. And the problem isn't really the mods that can spawn. There's plenty and lots of potential. It's instead their caps that totally ruin this item type.

@the V:
If you play Diablo classic maybe you aren't just remembering anymore about something. But I'll refresh your memory

Back in the day, most of us, players, complained about the almost complete uselessness of Uniques. Their were essentially weak items, with little value and were leading to a terribly frustrating feeling of "Oh look, a Unique. Junk." Blizzard obliged. And LoD made Uniques more interesting. Subsequent patches made it even more prevalent. Now we are hearing that rares should be better... see the problem?

So, the problem is not really that Classic was better and LoD wasn't, or the other way around. The problem is that the item class system is wrong and in my opinion needs to be revised. It's no use if you think Rares is the way to go. For every person who thinks like you, I can name another who thinks Uniques are the way to go.

I do have one idea that I think could work. Not that Blizzard needs my ideas. But I do enjoy thinking about these type of things and expose the results for discussion. I'll post about it on a different thread sometime later, to leave the discussion here on topic.

 

[The Lord of Darkness]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

In my opinion it all comes down to personal preference. What exactly do you want to do? mf? gf? just questing? You pretty much get what you want with D2's item system. There isn't a written rule that people have to copy each other builds. How this relates to D3 is that people are going to copy builds regardless. If folks want to be creative and play using certain items good for them. I think that D3's rune system will pretty much satisfy everyone in this regard.

 

[CBK]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

Back in the day, most of us, players, complained about the almost complete uselessness of Uniques. Their were essentially weak items, with little value and were leading to a terribly frustrating feeling of "Oh look, a Unique. Junk." Blizzard obliged. And LoD made Uniques more interesting. Subsequent patches made it even more prevalent. Now we are hearing that rares should be better... see the problem?

So, the problem is not really that Classic was better and LoD wasn't, or the other way around. The problem is that the item class system is wrong and in my opinion needs to be revised. It's no use if you think Rares is the way to go. For every person who thinks like you, I can name another who thinks Uniques are the way to go.

I do have one idea that I think could work. Not that Blizzard needs my ideas. But I do enjoy thinking about these type of things and expose the results for discussion. I'll post about it on a different thread sometime later, to leave the discussion here on topic.

I agree with you, since I complained back in the day and still do. However, one of the points that I favor with rares is the ability of them coming in different kinds and colors, which added more customization to the game (sorry for my rough english BTW).

You said blizzard doesn't need your ideas, however I think it wouldn't be bad to grab this thread and twist it into finding a solution. My .002 would be that back in classic when making the typical BvB you would most likely end up using the twitch+swordback combo. This is my POV. Make uniques serve as items the are for a specific usage such as this combo. You got form it 75% block and open wounds, something that with rares that you get. This would truly make them unique; however not unique as Enigma goes as being something that completely changes the style of PvP/PvM. While you leave rares to be the max expression of customization as they are on Diablo 2.

Any other ideas?

 

[Popeye]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

I hope you're not talking about classic. Uniques and sets were NOT the main target at higher difficulties, it was finding that 'rare' item with unbelievable mods. Did you even play classic? You probably don't realize how different classic and LOD are, if not.

I realize classic had probably 1/10th the population of LOD even at its best, so I understand I'm the minority here and most of you probably won't understand. Those who played classic certainly will, though. It was a different game.

I've played D2 classic even more than I've played LOD, mainly because I wasn't interested in playing it (my favourite game was Alpha Centauri at that moment), and I played Hell dificulty with a spear amazon, and though I don't think that any example should break the rule, in my case the only rare item that I needed was the spear, which talks about the relatively of your statement.
Also, saying that the Diablo 2 classic players won't be pleased with D3 because of the lack of that variety (of the characters based on their items) its quite pessimist, as you'll probably will find much more ways of creating an unique class that you were on D2.

 

[CBK]

Re: D2 Classic Players Won't Like D3

I've played D2 classic even more than I've played LOD, mainly because I wasn't interested in playing it (my favourite game was Alpha Centauri at that moment), and I played Hell dificulty with a spear amazon, and though I don't think that any example should break the rule, in my case the only rare item that I needed was the spear, which talks about the relatively of your statement.
Also, saying that the Diablo 2 classic players won't be pleased with D3 because of the lack of that variety (of the characters based on their items) its quite pessimist, as you'll probably will find much more ways of creating an unique class that you were on D2.

Of course their can be exceptions, but even then, you could devate how sets/uniques could still be replaced by really good rares.

I do agree in your general idea that Diablo 3 will give more ways of getting unique items. We don't even have to go very far. We can look back at the progress we had from Diablo to Diablo 2. However I do substain my opinion that probably uniques should be more unique than they currently are.