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D Talon Sin

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by STINGER, Mar 4, 2004.

  1. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    D Talon Sin

    Havin fun wiht this wench but am just confused as to where I want to go wiht the rest of my points. She is maxed out on the base attack, go DS 1 point and IMO its enuff after adding +skills later (much like a lvl 1 CE which I tend to use).

    I have seen were maxing Venom was the way some have gone, but it seems semi wastefull as poison rarely kills squat and the big crushing is going to take care of things pretty handily.

    I have tossed around getting a charge up for some big one hit damage.

    So for you guys that have done this build what are some of your "regrets" or "Wish I had dones"?
     
  2. BaNiSeR

    BaNiSeR IncGamers Member

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    i took max shadow master. eventually max fade for 20% PDR and nice resists to free up equip/sockets. then make sure you have one in cloak of shadows which you will if you take a shadow lol

    then if you want 80+ more resists take duel jade talons and sink points into claw block. duel claw block is infinately better than shield block as it blocks MANY things shields can not block. things like OK spells etc ^_^ check the assasin forum for complete list of what is/isnt blockable if you like.

    then for times when you have that lovable curse IM on sind one point into blade fury and watch your crushing blow kill from afar. note here that you might want an ITD claw as primary claw for times when you use fury as it gets no AR boost unless you pump claw mastery which i do not reccomend.
     
  3. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    My lvl 17 Master with +3 skill on my Trapper Rocked back when that was all the skill I had, now she never goes down except IM with many more skill so i think I am going to stop aroun 13-15 and let skill do the rest, see how she does and add later.

    i do have the 1 point in Blades

    Fade....well the 20% is nice for sure, but I am no PDR fan so I plan to get enuff to make resists easy, hell i may try lvl 1 as I will most likely have dual claws, was thinking one Jade and one Tucs......but on switch having a Shield and a CB weapon like Black!!! Might go with that Enchant weapon as I happen to have found two of them recently!

    I guess I feel my main destructive power for getting a corpse and taking bosses with DT and CB is there, and I have a Range attack for sick moded monsters I dont want to get up in the face ugly with, but i just see a potential of an even more diversified build.

    We already know:
    Blades kill.......slow to mid speed but for 1 point its godly
    DS always kills, and wiht 1 point + skills pack are gone with a corpse or two
    DT/CB will own a simgle monster
    (2) Minions, Might Merc, maybe HF just to slow it all down

    Right now at lvl 35 I have (3) very effective killing skills and even have Dragon FLight at 1 point. i have some 13 more plan skills to use in Master maybe more, maybe more in Fade, but even maxing both leaves me points to use.

    I suppose I will kep pondering......I suppose even one tiny point in TS with +skills can give me a charge up to use as Hell even lvl 1 with 3 charges is damn powerfull with good base damage.

    I dont know, I am moving slow on her and saving points.

    I do Intend to load up the CB. Not sure how much but it will be a solid number
     
  4. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    Hum......

    93 Points will get me this (ya I used that skill planner thing)

    Max DT, DF, TS
    15 Master
    Blades to toss
    DS to cast

    Block will hit 45 with 1 base and 7+skills
    and Fade is 48 i beleive

    Sounds kool, basically the ole one hitter MA Sin with a Thumper Boss Destroying skill........Hell i dont know this may be just the standard MA build from 1.09 for some. I always made DS using TS Sins.
     
  5. skunkbelly

    skunkbelly IncGamers Member

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    Stinger, max TS. With a 3-TS charged kick, you'll do *crazy* damage.

    I went D-Tail with my kicksin, and she does nearly 30K damage when her kick is fully TS-charged. It's big fun. I'm not sure you'll get quite that high with a DTalon kicksin, but you'll still do quite a bit.
     
  6. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    I think you eliminated Venom as a choice too quickly. When you think about how CB works, it takes a set percentage of an enemy's remaining hitpoints, much like static. So as the monster's hitpoints get lower and lower you do less and less dmg... why not let crazy-fast poison dmg help finish them off? It'll also do wonders with your Blade Fury since you can shoot them pretty dern fast. I don't see high lvl DF being very useful in PvM, so I'd replace it with Venom.
     
  7. Aerath

    Aerath IncGamers Member

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    Don't max TS - you'll be too busy charging it up, and it's not where the damage comes from... you kill with kicking, not with charging up.

    //edit : Note, DTail only has -1- kick. Dtalon has a couple more, and TS only affects the -first- kick of those.
     
  8. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    So.......

    Max Ts and Venom and use DT for my finish.......

    Its making sense to have two skills that just boost existing ones vrs adding a "4th" attack basically.

    Ill keep pondering but this idea I like.
     
  9. Aerath

    Aerath IncGamers Member

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    As an addition - you'll want Crushing Blow and Open wounds... You'll be kicking a lot, so will be triggering this a lot as well.
     
  10. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    You can also max CoS for an INSANE defence bonus. It gets applied in a very strange way, giving you extremely high defence. Your master will benefit from this effect too.

    You can actually tank hell monsters with your sin, and noone will expect it ;).
     
  11. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    CB = Crushing Blow

    I intend to have upgraded GToes or the other one.....names names names...grrr
    Orphans Helm

    Not sure where ill go after that but I will probably use Orphans set for NM (maybe) I have never used that complete set so I figured I would go for it.

    I intend to have a Black Runeword Weapon on switch for 35% crushing so if I hit that big boss and intend to really lay on the DT i will switch to that since the claws dont have crushing.

    i figure 30-50 crushing for most of the time will do the trick and having that 355 on switch will do a lot.

    I really dont know, I started this guy on a whim and i am jsut playing around so i really havent done much thinking about it until today and she is 36.
     
  12. BaNiSeR

    BaNiSeR IncGamers Member

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    i think its gore riders.

    and you do not want tiger strike on a kicker! nonono ^_^
    tiger only adds the charge up dmg to the FIRST kick, not the following 3-6 kicks. when you take into consideration the time it takes to get 3 TS charges you then think that you can have gotten in at least one more full kick if not two in that same time and will all your CB etc you will be doing damn near the same dmg neway...just save the 20 points and dont to TS.

    as for CB, i always ran with guilluimes face, uped gore riders, rattle cage. if you nead resists i guess put a jewel or if youu can afford it um in the armor/helm. but you dont nead resists with 1/2 jades and fade!
     
  13. skunkbelly

    skunkbelly IncGamers Member

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  14. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    *Fires up smoke and contemplates*


    *wishes he had a beer*



    *realizes he is at work and gets depressed*



    *wonders why he gave up drugs*




    *realizes he couldnt afford paintball if he did drugs let alone his house, car...etc*



    *realizes he is at works and needs to get his *** busy so he can keep his job and afford the cable connection to build his new sin twice possibly*


    *still contemplating*
     
  15. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    Hm...regrets and things that work..

    I have a lv 79 kicker, but really she is a hybrid :lol: I just find that in hell I rely a bit more often on some lightning damage and getting a "safe" first corpse, so I invested 18 or so in LS and 14 in DS. Claw Block (10). MB is a must IMHO

    She mostly uses CB: Venomgrip=5%, Guillaumes = 35%, Gore Riders = 15% (before: Upgraded Goblin Toe for 25%) and STRENGTH claws. Actually the claws are what makes me most unhappy. I use Jade on my second hand, but you can only leech Mana, when it is on the main hand. If I use it there I lose 25% CB.

    Venom I have at lv 10 ATM. Its the 10 frame duration to deliver the damage that makes it so appealing. In a 5 kick cycle (24 pts in DT), it should go off at least twice. BoS about only 4 or 5 pts, but I cast it with weapon switch (+5 skills and +1 in Blade Fury, which also delivers CB)

    Wearing Maras, SoE and Duriels Shell. Still a manald for ML and a rare with lots of res.

    The usual carnage works like that: Lay down 5 lightning traps, Cast Cloak, Cast MB, Kick on monster to death, Lay down 2 DS...repeat with MB if necessary.

    1200 Life seem enough to tackle Shenk and Eldrich...I am just careful of areas that are bustling with Black Souls and Vipers (meaning I dont go there :lol: )
     
  16. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    Skunkbelly,

    Your build is totally different from stingers. You are using Dtail, a relatively slow attack in comparison with Dtalon. Assume at least 4 kicks of dtalon for 2 kicks of dtail. Dragon tail adds a substantional ammount of %ED (and also fire splash), where Dragon Talon adds much less.

    Since you do a number of kicks in rapid succession (one click = 4 kicks at slvl 20), and it's just 1 click, you'll only get the TS charges on the first of the 4 kicks. You don't get any additional charges damage on the other kicks, untill you start a new kick cycle.

    Anyway, it's a whole other cup of tea. You can't compare the different builds. It's like comparing the damage on a charger and a zealot. A charger will do much more damage per hit, but a zealot will hit faster, and thus do more hits. They're both paladins, but you can't compare them.

    Maybe you'll get the difference between the skills better if you read the descriptions on diabloii.net.
     
  17. BaNiSeR

    BaNiSeR IncGamers Member

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    exactly kardinaal, very well put and nicely to :) unlike grumpy old me lol

    with dragon talon my kickasin did on average 16/17k dmg PER KICK, and i hear that many, many kickers do 18k-19k per kick because they use better boots...

    so when you compare that to the say 40k dmg from TS it cant even compare to my assasins kicks. sure you can use BOS to speed up your charging, but in the time you do that your only doing a couple hundred dmg while in the same time you can keep fade on for safety reasons and be doing 16k (low number) times 6 (number of kickes per attack my assasin did) = 96 thousand dammage per attack.

    im sorry, but even with the max TS going off on the first kick 16k times 1400% dmg = 224k dmg unless i did my calculations wrong. erm, maby it does do a lot of dmg, but im looking for safety and its much less safe to go your way and use BoS to get fast attacks while i can do damn near the same dmg in the same time with just kicks + crushing blow
     
  18. HelzCaretaker

    HelzCaretaker IncGamers Member

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    dragon talon vs dragon tail can be summarized this way. Dragon talon is pure physical dmg from boots adds elemental depending on wpn/charms. Crushing blow creates massive dmg which works really good for killing bosses. Dragon tail on the other hand can use a charge up skill mainly tiger strike real effectively since instead of succesion of kicks its mainly just the physical kick then the fire kick. You get massive amounts of phyiscal and fire dmg. IMO dragon talon is much better since crushing blow is very good at annhilating single opponents really fast. Also with dragon talon you don't need a single charge up skill since crushing blow will deliver the majority of your dmg to high hpt monsters.
     
  19. skunkbelly

    skunkbelly IncGamers Member

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    I'm well aware of the differences between DTail and Dtalon, and had them in mind when I made my post. Using TS for the additional damage on *either* skill is my preference.

    Is it necessary? No.

    Can it pay off big? Yes, if you don't mind altering your playing style to include the charge-ups.

    TS only affects the first kick of Talon, as mentioned... but 1440% extra damage is a helluva nice bonus, one of the best the game has to offer. And *combined* with crushing blow..... *shudder*

    Anyway, this is only my preference. We've given poor Stinger plenty to think about :D
     
  20. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    *putting down crack pipe*

    Pressure got to me and I "cracked"........hehe

    Na.....ill wing it like I always have.....but i have more of a winging dirrection
     

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