D-Talon Kicker with LastWish/Fortitude/Phoenix?

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JanusJones

Diabloii.Net Member
D-Talon Kicker with LastWish/Fortitude/Phoenix?

Hey all - just looking up the kicking thread and started wondering if a D-Talon Kicker would work wearing LastWish+Fortitude+Phoenix. The Crushing Blow and Life Tap from Last Wish seem like they would be pretty handy when applied multiple times with D-Talon's kicks, and the ED from Fortitude+Phoenix might be pretty sexy. I could even throw on a Guillarme's for even more CB (and a little Strength - always handy for a kicker!), a pair of Dracul's Grasp (or the IK gloves/belt combo - very nice for the stat and resist bonuses - or heck, even Soul Drainers - wouldn't they work well with multiple attacks?), and a pair of rare Myrmidon Greaves I had Charsi imbue (they ain't as good as Shadowdancers, but they're all I have . . . sigh!).

The other option would be to go for +skills gear to get as many kicks as possible - you'd get 6 kicks at level 36, which could be achieved with double Tucs (+8), Nigma (+2), Maras (+2), BK (+1), Torch (+3), and Anni (+1). The Enigma Strength bonus would help Kick damage out a bunch too. I suppose I *could* do Shako for a helm, but . . . just not that sexy, and Assys are normally the coolest-looking characters in the game!

I dunno - what do you think, folks? Seems like it'd be pretty fun to make a LastWish/Fortitude/Phoenix-kicker Assasin (a very different kind of Phoenix assy - lol) - CB, ED from Might, ED from Fort, ED from Phoenix, sexy-looking Redemption aura . . . My main worries are the Fade on LW overriding my BoS (wouldn't happen *too* often, but still annoying!) and that the total ED (200 from Might, 200 from Fort, 351 from Phoenix) will not be enough to outweigh the damage ups possible with a double-claw setup (the massive +skills).

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated - thanks in advance!
 
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Mr.Grimmy

Diabloii.Net Member
JanusJones said:
According to the kicking thread it does . . . but perhaps experiments are in order! :thumbsup:
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I put a fortitude on my kicker and noticed that the character display showed a pretty substantial increase in damage for Dtalon. But as we all know the char screen is pretty buggy. Still, it seems that I do more damage now. Just my 2 cents but hope it helps.
 
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dallemar

Diabloii.Net Member
JanusJones said:
My main worries are the Fade on LW overriding my BoS (wouldn't happen *too* often, but still annoying!) and that the total ED (200 from Might, 200 from Fort, 351 from Phoenix) will not be enough to outweigh the damage ups possible with a double-claw setup (the massive +skills).
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You overall thinking sounds good to me.

Big thought though - don't use Last Wish and BoS - because you WILL be triggering it all the time. every two or three attacks, you're going to be triggering fade which will cancel out your BoS. Test this out with some easy to find 6% cast on hit item and see how offen it triggers. You'llneed to simply get a fast weapon and focus on IAS.
 
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onedevildog

Diabloii.Net Member
I was thinking Grief, Fortitude, Phoenix... Grief vs. Last Wish is an interesting comparison... Need to do more testing, but my experience to date has mixed results depending character type and build. Grief certainly worked much better on my WW Barb and Frost Zealot... I'm still learning assassins though...
 
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ilkori

Diabloii.Net Member
Using a Phase Blade and any other source of IAS will get you the fastest follow-up (most important part). It takes 50 IAS to reach the fastest speed with the Phase Blade and no BoS.

The damage from Grief is not added to kicks.
 
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dallemar

Diabloii.Net Member
ignore my last post

Of course, I mis-read the Last Wish as cast on striking and not on struck.... so... ignore my whole comment about how often it would happen.

However, that said, do remember a kicker is right in with the folks and I had a cast iron maiden upon being struck every 10% I think... and it cast a LOT. Would still drive me nuts. but not as often as striking of course.
 
J

JanusJones

Diabloii.Net Member
dallemar said:
Of course, I mis-read the Last Wish as cast on striking and not on struck.... so... ignore my whole comment about how often it would happen.

However, that said, do remember a kicker is right in with the folks and I had a cast iron maiden upon being struck every 10% I think... and it cast a LOT. Would still drive me nuts. but not as often as striking of course.
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Point taken - glad you caught yourself on that first one (hee hee!). But you are right and I know it . . . it's just soooooo frustrating! I mean consider the other stats - the 200% ED from Might will work just fine with your kicks, the Life Tap frees up the gloves slot, the Crushing Blow for god's sake! Argh! I wonde if getting a Defiance merc would help enough with your defense to make the Fade less likely . . .

Hmmm . . . . what about trying to do it without BoS? Could you get away with Treachery body armor (for the IAS) and maybe Mavina's Circlet with a 15% jewel in it (another 45%)? Then you could have the cast-on-hit Fade from either Last Wish or Treachery active without hurting you . . . though giving up Fortitude's +200% ED would hurt.

Ooooh! Ok - just checked the IAS thread - you only need 63% EIAS to hit the last breakpoint - and that's only 41% IAS total! Easy to do with a 15%, Nos's Coil, and 20% IAS gloves - or for that matter with Highlord's, Nos's, and a 15% jewel . . . etc. In other words, you can have Fort+LastWish+Phoenix WITHOUT USING BURST OF SPEED! Sacrilegious . . . I'm excited now!

However, I DO wonder if the +strength and +skills from Enigma wouldn't out-do Fortitude's flat 200% ED. Anyone want to try to crunch the numbers for that one?

Consider - which would do more damage/time frame:

A level 36 D-Talon (7 kicks, 1st 7 frames, last 6 3 frames) with the +strength from Enigma and no ED from non-weapon items . . .

OR:

A level 28 D-Talon (6 kicks, 1st 7 frames, last 5 3 frames) with 751% ED from Phoenix, Last Wish, and Fortitude?

Of course this doesn't take into account any other mods (Crushing Blow, Life Tap - the stat bonuses from Bartuc's, etc.) - but provisionally, which would work better? The Double Tuc/Nigma setup with numerous fast but weak kicks or the big ED, fewer kicks equip?

Argh - the indecision! Heeeeelp!
 
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JanusJones

Diabloii.Net Member
Update -

Wow, I had hardly realized how many great PvM options for a D-Talon kicker there are out there!

A Stormlash would give you some serious crowd control (Static Field, anyone?) and CB

Windhammer (silly sounding, I know) would give you huge CB and loads of Twisters for crowd control

Lacerator (of course!) would be sexy for the Amp Damage (which WOULD work for kick damage) etc.

Deathcleaver (hello OW and Deadly Strike!)

Pompeii's Wrath (slow target, volcano on hit, more knockback - might actually work well!)

Razor's Edge (OW, Deadly Strike, -target defense - yowsa!)

the Gnasher (a low level weapon, but 20% CB and 50% OW!)

Fleshripper (this one has it all - OW, Deadly, CB, Slows Target, -enemy defense

Horizon's Tornado (hey - tornados on hit, slows target - not bad)

Schaefer's Hammer (static field, some nice lightning damage, +75% resist lightning

Stone Crusher (-monster defense on hit, -% enemy defense on hit, CB, +strength)

Stormlash (yowsa! CB, big lightning damage, static field on hit, tornado on hit - ouch!)

Cranium Basher (wow . . . 75% crushing blow, +25% resist all, 4% amp damage on hit!!!!!!)

Brand (since CTC on being struck seems to be something that'll happen, how about Amp Damage? Bone Spear on strike, 20% Deadly Strike, ITD, Prevent Monster Heal . . .)

Destruction (better than Death for a kicker, methinks - consider: Volcano AND Molten Boulder on hit, Crushing Blow, Deadly Strike, Magic Damage)

Lawbringer (is this the BEST option? 20% CTC lv. 15[!] Decrepify on hit, Sanctuary, elemental damage . . . dang!)

Beast (Fanaticism, OW, CB . . .)

Crescent Moon (Static Field and Chain Lightning . . . Imagine pairing this with a pair of Dreams!)

I think the thing that's sooooo cool about D-Talon is that it's like Zeal and Fury in terms of the multiple hits = multiple chance to cast and multiple applications of CB, OW, and Deadly, but it's NOT dependent on damage! Essentially, I think this means you could make a scary kicker without uber-equip
 
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ilkori

Diabloii.Net Member
Just a warning on the 2-handers. Many of them have a tendancy to be slow, and it knocks out your ability to block. Kickers tend to have fairly low life and defense as it is, making them vulnerable to swarms of strong melee. (Frenzytaurs, anyone?) As I see it, having a Shield (or weapon block) is mandatory just to keep you from getting stuck in a fhr-lock.
 
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