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Curious why people don't like BSG or B5

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Sokar Rostau, Oct 4, 2006.

  1. Sokar Rostau

    Sokar Rostau IncGamers Member

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    Curious why people don't like BSG or B5

    This is something that has bothered me for a while and has been mentioned a few times in various threads. Having just watched the Battlestar Galactica episode Pegasus I am now prompted to ask the question.

    Why do some people claim that Battlestar Galactica is boring and that it doesn't have as much action as Star Trek? I have heard the same accusation levelled against Babylon 5. This stance makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when the same people that claim BSG or B5 don't have enough action also claim that DS9 was the worst of the Star Trek franchise.

    How can anyone claim that these don't have enough action, especially compared to Star Trek and TNG? Is a one minute scene that consists of a shaking set and the occasional beam of light coming from the Enterprise somehow more exciting than the huge dogfights in BSG or the massive fleet invasions of B5? Where is the action in Star Trek that is supposedly missing in BSG, B5 and DS9?

    Is it a matter of format? BSG, B5 and DS9 have, more or less, a single continuing storyline with each episode building on those that have gone before and with a definate end point. For the most part, aside from the occasional "remember what we did with the Tribbles that time?" kind of comment, Star Trek is more focussed on endless self-contained episodes with only the barest of ongoing story.

    Is it that BSG abd B5 are a lot darker in tone than Star Trek? If so, would that mean that the people that claim BSG is boring think that the original series was exciting with it's lighthearted approach?

    Do some people just think that a fight against cute and furries is good TV but large scale space warfare and the brutality associated with it is not? Are flawless characters that never make mistakes better than flawed, very realistic, characters? Hmmm... interestingly there is an alcoholic character in both BSG and B5, but not in Star Trek.

    I'm prompted in asking this in part because of Pegasus which didn't actually have much action in it, except at the cliffhanger (when I actually yelled "No! you bastards don't end it there!"), but was an incredibly tight and fast-paced episode with tension in abundance. There was torture, rape, a fistfight that resulted in the torturer/rapist getting killed, characters bragging about raping a POW, an unstable and probably psychotic new character that is literally a cat amongst the pigeons, summary executions... I don't know. In terms of action it is a different kind of action than the big dogfights or the land battles, but it is still action packed. I just don't understand how some people think it's boring and that Star Trek is somehow more exciting.

    I just don't get it.
     
  2. HAMC8112

    HAMC8112 IncGamers Member

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    Its the Shat effect!

    Edit: maybe i should clarify, encase you are a younger person.

    Captain Kirk, he has a magnetic personality, you love him or you hate him. And dont forget, when Star trek came out at the end of the 60's, there wasnt anything else really. It was new and exiting, not like anything we had seen sofar.

    Now compare this to Pa Carthwright, (sp?) he arrived on the scene with a tarnished name. He carried a lot of bagage from the old days and loads of it was plain negative. See the guy made his fortune getting married to a number of woman, who all died shortly after the marriage. His treasure chest got bigger and bigger, pretty soon he owned all the land from horizon till horizon. To me it is no wonder the guy has a bad reputation. I mean ok, a wife can die, but all of them? One after another? How "unlucky" can you get?

    The man is just no good and we all know it.
     
  3. Sir EvilFreeSmeg

    Sir EvilFreeSmeg Banned

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    Councilor Troi. 'nuff said
     
  4. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    I find the hubris in the title disconcerting and the whole series gets bad vibes from it. Call me a one-eyed Christian theocrat, but the name Babylon doesn't do it for me.
     
  5. jackthelad

    jackthelad IncGamers Member

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    Jadzia Dax in an original series uniform, complete with Kirk-designed mini skirt. Now thats 'nuff said.

    I think the idea of humans as utopian, future rulers of the universe inStar Trek appeals to lots of people. Also, dont forget that DS9, Voyager & Enterprise haven't been the massive hits the studios' expected, & TNG was simple: guy in charge of a big ship having self-contained hour-long adventures. Nice & easy for Joe Public to follow.
     
  6. MinasMorgul

    MinasMorgul IncGamers Member

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    wow, The Pegasus. if your watching the BSG DVD's you must have just finished with Season 2.0. I remember that cliff hanger. it pissed me off because Blockbuster didn't have the rest of the discs (because they havent been released yet). But season 2.5 is now out. Just to warn you though, don't be too disappointed with the next episode, because the tension it builds in the episode after that is a killer!
     
  7. Amra

    Amra IncGamers Member

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    I didn't watch B5 and I haven't seen BSG in 25+ years. I have watched all the ST series except the original; most of which I've seen I guess through re-runs.

    The word "barest" I would take exception with. Each episode did generally have a self-contained event or story but many episodes were tired together. Some examples that come to mind: Worf and his son and the growth there, Picard and the Klingons, Wesley growing up, the Borg ('nuff said), Data, Lor, and the Soong (sp?) history. On and on.

    Ah the good ol days.

    Too bad Enterprise didn't last longer. :cry:
     
  8. Thelioness

    Thelioness IncGamers Member

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    Warning: Geek Alert. I personally liked B5. I met the cast and have a rock from the meditation garden and somewhere I have a picture of me and Richard Biggs. (rest in peace)
     
  9. Sir EvilFreeSmeg

    Sir EvilFreeSmeg Banned

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    Thelioness' sexiness level just went up 10x
     
  10. Athelstan

    Athelstan IncGamers Member

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    Personally, i love the new Battlestar Galactica series, DS9 (I'm currently watching Season 7 on DVD) and all the other Trek series. I never really got into Babylon 5. I also don't see the point of separating DS9 from the other Trek series. DS9 gave the Trek universe more depth by showing us a grittier, more realistic view of what life is like in the galaxy, but it is still part of Roddenberry's vision of the future.
     
  11. Talga Vasternich

    Talga Vasternich IncGamers Member

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    "You can't rape a machine."

    The New BSG is an incredible series. I can't wait for season 3.0 to start Friday.
     
  12. bladesyz

    bladesyz IncGamers Member

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    The name Babylon seemed pretty appropriate to me, in that I get the feeling it is predestined to be destroyed. It shouldn't be surprising, considering that it's the fifth one!

    As for BSG... I don't know, maybe it's because I keep seeing it in bits and pieces, but it really doesn't do much for me.
     
  13. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    I can see why people don't like the new BSG, it's okay only (I often find myself wondering why I bother, if it weren't for Edward James Olmos and a few other decent actors - Baltar, the Cylon woman and Starbuck mostly - I probably wouldn't). I much prefer the original that I'm watching on DVD now, it's awesome.

    I can't believe I missed an episode entitled "Pegasus". I'm going to have to get the series on DVD, I've missed too much and have given up on that ridiculous timeslot.

    As for B5, that's my favourite sci-fi series. I can understand why some people thought it was boring though, in the early days it was quite slow-paced. In fact it took a few seasons before I really started watching it. It's not surprising that the same people didn't like DS9, I mean it is practically identical (but crappier). And in both cases, setting it aboard a space station makes the show a fair bit more static than people were used to sci-fi being.

    I thought Voyager was worse than DS9, I didn't watch much though. And of course, I based a fair bit of my judgement on the quality of the acting, which seems to be a factor that most nerds don't consider.

    OMG, prejudice.
     
  14. ModeratelyConfused

    ModeratelyConfused Banned

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    I've never really seen either one before, and the odds that I watch either now are pretty low. As often as I have the tv on, I really never watch it. It's mostly on just for background noise, and something to stare at every so often.
     
  15. Sokar Rostau

    Sokar Rostau IncGamers Member

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    Religion played a key role in both BSG and B5, could that have anything to do with it? One of the B5 main characters, G'Kar, eventually wrote a book and accidentaly became a prophet, and therefore the focus of a new religion, to his people. And that's on top of all the prohpecies, spirituality, and general themes of destiny that drove the series. BSG is very much set in a religious context as well, with at least one character being someone mentioned in an ages old prophecy.

    Another thing I just realised, about the episodic nature of some of these shows is the failure of Crusade. Like B5, the story for Crusade was written as a complete five season series. Unlike B5, Crusade involved a different planet and set of challenges every week and according to the writers wasn't going to really get going until the second season when all the story elements were in place... it was axed before that second season came into reality. Could this be because it appealed to Star Trek fans (in the sense that it felt like a rip-off of Star Trek), but not to B5 fans because the format was so different to B5? Personally, the thing that soured me on Crusade, apart from some of the characters, was the poor special effects. Crusade is set five years after the events of the final season of B5 and yet the handguns they used had none of the special effects that were in B5 (VERY distracting).

    I will be the first to admit that B5, and probably BSG, would be hard to get into if the first episode you see is from halfway through season 3. It was a single story where every episode counted, unlike Star Trek where you can miss half a season and still know what's going on (the same thing... again).

    What I mean about them episodic nature of Star Trek is that while there may have been story arcs, there was no overall story. It is simply exploring and facing a different situation each week. BSG and B5 are the opposite to this where you have a single story where even the occasional self-contained episode (there are three that fall into this category in the first two seasons of BSG) adds something important to the bigger picture, even if you don't know it at the time.

    Could people's opinion of the new BSG be coloured by the technology? If you missed the mini-series you wouldn't know the very specific reason they use the technologies they do. Are bullets, missiles and nukes simply not sci-fi enough for some people? If that's the case, why doesn't that work in the opposite direction, making the sci-fi closer to present reality in people's minds, or is it a matter of 35 years of conditioning where sci-fi is only believable if there are lasers?
     
  16. Ash Housewares

    Ash Housewares IncGamers Member

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    THIS IS CORRECT

    I've never seen BSG, the new one, don't see much of a reason to, no hot vulcans or nuthin, psshaw
     
  17. Module88

    Module88 IncGamers Member

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    Sokar, did you just watch that one episode and make your decision based on that? Most of the series doesn't have that amazing action, although it is very suspenseful, dramatic, and generally more tense. I much prefer SGA to it, since it has plenty of action, has a reasonable plot, although it lacks those dramatic features more often than not. Besides, the characters are just more interesting. Personally I think the guns and missiles are better, though.
     
  18. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Indeed it is.
     
  19. Bortaz

    Bortaz Banned

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    You actually read his 12 paragraph posts? Wow.


    I liked the original BSG, and I watched (and enjoyed) the first 2 or 3 seasons of B5 (didnt like Bruce Boxleitner (sp?)). I liked TOS, loved TNG, really loved DS9 (except for Sisko), hated Voy, and only watched 2 eps of Enterprise...I just couldnt get past the fact that the Quantum Leap dude was in charge of the ship.
     
  20. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    You should watch the original... Athena and Cassiopeia, not to mention Dr Quinn Space Woman in the first few episodes...

    Well, the religious elements in B5 were more of a general spiritual nature, something not at all alien to sci-fi. The ones in BSG (from the season and a bit I've seen so far anyway) are a little weird, I'm never quite sure where they're trying to go with them.

    It's not unexpected of course, the original is sometimes referred to as Mormons in Space, and they have something of a point.

    Well, you could fairly easily miss the first season or so of B5 and still have a pretty good idea of what's going on - no less than in DS9 or something anyway. In fact I'm pretty sure a lot of people stopped watching early, those first seasons really did seem to plod - it's only now that I've seen the later material that a lot of the early stuff comes together, making it much more interesting.

    As for the whole series/serial thing, well each has its strengths and weaknesses. I generally prefer serials.

    I doubt it, Space: Above and Beyond had guns, as did the Stargates. It's kind of a modern thing to do actually, the original BSG was all laser pistols. I must admit I prefer the laser weapons, at least if I'm enjoying romantic or operatic sci-fi. Bullets are for gritty stuff.
     

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