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Cubing(rerolling) charms

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Snake, Apr 9, 2004.

  1. Snake

    Snake IncGamers Member

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    Cubing(rerolling) charms

    I don't have a lot om experience/knowledge about cubing charms. That's why I am turning to you guys, for some advice. I have lot of ilvl 86,87,** charms lying around with uninteresting mods. Would these be ok for cubing puposses or do I have to run Baal for ever, for those ilvl 99 charms.

    I am looking for the following mods

    small: MF, resists, posion damage

    grand: skills

    I would like to know if a ilvl 99 charm has a better change getting the mods I am looking for than a ilvl 87 has? If this is the case, how much more change are we talking about?

    Thanks in advance for the advice guys.
     
  2. DevontheGnomey

    DevontheGnomey IncGamers Member

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    well the arreat summit lists the required charm level for various suffixes and prefixes.

    to roll skill charms it seems you should use mid-high level nm charms ideally. the ilvl of a skill charm required is like 50 i think(off the top of my head) which means if you have an ilvl 86 charm you have a possiblilty of mods ranging from required level 1-86 instead of just an ilvl 50 charm which can only get mods requiring ilvl 1-50

    you will see that if you want a big damage small charm(such as the kind only baal can drop) it will have to be at least ilvl(90 or 91 i forget)

    since when cubing magic items with 3 perfects its been my expierience that the Ilvl does not change.

    so look at what mods you want and make sure your charm is of sufficient Ilvl to roll that mod... then find jesus... ask him to make you a nice hibernal small charm cause its tough to do!
     
  3. Snake

    Snake IncGamers Member

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    So let me get this straight. If I am looking for a skiller I should use a charm with an ilvl of like 50-52 or something. And if I want a 6-7% mf charm an ilvl of 33-35 would be ideal, right?

    If I understand the concept of cubing correctly, the reroll just picks a prefix/sufix at random, but within the limits of the ilvl of the charm.

    I looked at the list(arreat summit) with all the possible charm's I could make and +175 posion damage seems to be the maximun for a prefix and +50 for a suffix. So a small charm can have a maximum of +225 posion damage.

    If the aboth is true, how would you guys explain the following?

    Toxic Small Charm of Pestilence
    Keep in Inventory to Gain Bonus
    Required Level: 55
    Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
    Item Level: **
    Fingerprint: 0xa963a6f2
    +250 poison damage over 10 seconds
     
  4. Shivan

    Shivan IncGamers Member

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    poison doesn't stack linearly
    because of the way it breaks down into seconds etc etc, it'll always be more
    someone else who knows exactly how it works can explain it :p

    but the max on a poison SC is a pestilent of anthrax @ 451 over 12 seconds i think
     
  5. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    Ack, OK, hold still, I'll explain one thing at a time :)

    The Arreat Summit lists affix levels for charm mods. This is fairly silly of them given that maybe 1% of D2 players tops know what an affix level actually is. Affix level is not the same as item level, although you can work out one from the other.

    To work out the ilvl you need for low-mid level affixes, you can take the alvl and add 14 for small charms, 7 for large charms, and 0 for grand charms (for GCs, alvl=ilvl, it is an unusual case). For very high level charms, you work out ilvl by adding 99 to alvl and halving. The boundary between the two methods is where they are equal (ie at alvl 71 for a SC you need ilvl 85 either way).

    So for example, MFSCs are alvl 47. This is less than 71 so you need ilvl = alvl + 14 = 61.

    The only really high level mods you will care about are the top elemental ones, including poison. Pestilent is alvl ** on SCs, this is above 71 so you need ilvl (** + 99)/2 = 93.5 so you actually need at least 94. You can only get ilvl 94+ SCs from Baal, Nihlathak and Diablo. Forget about Pestilent. You can still get Toxic though.

    Mods are randomly chosen from the available pool. They are not all equally likely, some are rarer than others (eg Shimmering is very rare on SCs). But the relative rarity does not change as level goes up, just new ones become available (just like unique rings). This means in one sense that you are best off being just high enough level for the mod you want - because lower you can't get it at all, and higher it gets diluted by other mods. Although, really, the new mods that get added in are usually better ones, so I always just use the highest level charms I can get. Using only level 51 GCs to cube because it gives the theoretical best odds for +skills is like running NM Pindle instead of Hell Pindle when you want a Vamp Gaze - yes he is more likely to drop it than Hell Pindle, but only because Hell Pindle might also drop you a Windforce. You have to look at why the odds get better :)

    Lastly, poison mods stacking... Poison is displayed to us as (total dmg) over (time), but the the game actually thinks of it as (dmg per sec) * (time), or more precisely (rate) * (duration). When there are two poison mods on an item (not just charms, you can get dual-poison weapons too) you add both rates and durations.

    Pestilent is 175 over 6, which is 29.2 per second for 6 seconds.
    Anthrax is 50 over 6, which is 8.3 per second for 6 seconds.
    Combined they are 37.5 per second for 12 seconds, which works out to 451 over 12, as Shiv said.
     
  6. DevontheGnomey

    DevontheGnomey IncGamers Member

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    ah, i've only cubed GC's so i didn't know about that differant sc rule, thanks!
     
  7. Snake

    Snake IncGamers Member

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    Wow Thrugg that helps a lot. So to simplefy things, this is what I should do:

    For skillers use lvl 51 GC (run lvl 51 area's to get them)
    For the SC mods I wanted, run Baal en use ilvl 99 charms I would get from him.

    Running Baal seems like I would't get a lot of SC in a short time tho.

    Last question: how do you guys get those MF charms, in other words, wich ilvl SC do you guys use for cubing them (I mean in general and not what would be ideal)?
     
  8. WakkaWakkaWakka

    WakkaWakkaWakka Banned

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    What's the best 2 secs PSN SC u can find?

    ~
    Thank you

    // Wakka
     
  9. Vajar

    Vajar IncGamers Member

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    ilvl 33 I believe for MF scs
     
  10. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    SCs of Good Luck, the best MFSCs have required level 33. This is level your char needs to be to use them, it doesn't directly relate to where to find them. They have alvl 47, which, since they are SCs mean that you need ilvl 61 to find them.

    The thing about that MF mod though is that it is the last SC suffix for a long time (equal last with "of Vita", the one that can give +20 life). Which means the odds don't change even if you are a long way above.

    So pretty much any SC you find from NM Act 5 ice caves onwards (ie areas level 61+) is just as good for both MF and Vita mods. So I cube any and all SCs I find in Hell looking for those mods.

    The only mods you need Baal SCs for are the top elemental mods. So most people keep those (which I agree are very hard to get hold of) for cubing those. It is tough to sometimes cube a 7% MF SC from a Baal SC, to decide if you want to keep it or keep cubing it. I used to keep them, now I have more 7% MFSCs than I can use I go on cubing them for those special mods.
     
  11. Vajar

    Vajar IncGamers Member

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    I do have a baal small charm, ilvl 99, if you're lookin for one to trade for.
     
  12. loverat

    loverat IncGamers Member

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    Small Charms (reroll) ilvl 61

    NM Cows (lvl 61+) or early parts of Hell Act 1 (lvl 67)

    +(6-7)% MF 1 in 44
    +(3-5)% all resists 1 in 172
    +50 poison damage 1 in 78
    +(10-11)% one resist 1 in 94


    Small Charms (reroll)

    most of Act 4 Hell or all of Act 5 Hell

    +(6-7)% MF 1 in 44
    +(3-5)% all resists 1 in 198
    +100 poison damage 1 in 227
    +(10-11)% one resist 1 in 114


    Grand Charms (reroll) ilvl 61

    NM Cows (lvl 61+) or early parts of Hell Act 1 (lvl 67)

    +1 skills (any Class or branch) 1 in 22
    +1 skills (one Class, any branch) 1 in 154
    +1 skills (specific branch) 1 in 461


    Grand Charms (reroll) ilvl 90

    (Hell Cows)

    (listed for example only)
    +1 skills (any Class or branch) 1 in 23
    +1 skills (one Class, any branch) 1 in 162
    +1 skills (specific branch) 1 in 485
     
  13. Snake

    Snake IncGamers Member

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    I would like to try a ilvl 99 one out. What do you want for it?

    Thanks guys, for making the cubing thing quite clear to my.
     
  14. clerictulani

    clerictulani IncGamers Member

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    cubing charms?

    I thought there was a way to do this, but could never find the directions on exactly what you needed to place into the cube. Don't suppose someone could post how?

    thanx! Sorry for being so clueless!
     
  15. DevontheGnomey

    DevontheGnomey IncGamers Member

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    3 p.gems and a magical item (in this case a charm)... oh and a cube i suppose is also needed
     
  16. chase_encode

    chase_encode IncGamers Member

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    This quote was from the last time thrugg talked about rolling charms. Needless to say I listen, because all the "guides" out there are always wrong.

    Thanks Thrugg
     

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