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Critique my Ideal Commando Build

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Har-Megiddo, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. Har-Megiddo

    Har-Megiddo IncGamers Member

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    Critique my Ideal Commando Build AKA: Most BM dueler I can think of ;)

    This is a repost off of the one I just made in the Commando thread, but I'd like this to get feedback. It has skill layout, stat layout, item layout, and cost layout in the 290 economy (which may be taboo, but it's only to help people who are interested in trading and want to know if they can afford the build)

    After putting off studying a bit more (test @ 1 pm):

    FYI: 35% IAS needed for breakpoint of 8, this gets you to 30%, so when you pick items, be careful.

    Weapon: Beast Zerker (axes do more dmg/or are faster for Necro as far as I know) - Also, if you are teleporting as one monster, and your BoTD Merc, gets the kill, you'll get the "WTF is Necro doing with BoTD Zerker, and Why is he so much better than me?" ;)
    Shield: Homo w/ Eld (this is to maximize blocking and save for vit).
    Weapon Switch: CTA/Lidless
    Armour: Dusk Enigma (more tradable and fairly low str)
    Amulet: Perfect Mara's
    Helm: Um'd Crest
    Belt: Nos Coil (for life leech, 10% IAS, str, and slow)
    Ring1: Wisp (for How)
    Ring2: Ravenfrost
    Boots: +2 SM Marrowwalks
    Gloves: Lavagouts or Laying of Hands (20% IAS, Gouts better for the enchant, laying better for the demon dmg, both have fire res).

    If I max Poison Dagger, Skeleton Mastery, Raise Skeleton, and Skeleton Magi, and then put a point into amp, terror, weaken, decrep, bone armour, clay golem, golem mastery, summon mastery, iron golem, blood golem, and revive, that takes 91 skills. That would take 92-12 (skill quests)=80+1 (you start off at lvl 1)=81 when you are finished with skills, leaving the next 82-99 to be put into Revives to make your army more powerful than they are.

    Highest str. req is 138 for the zerker. Enigma gives 48 str at lvl 65, which drops the req. to 90, and Nos Coil lets me drop it to 75.

    I could go with:

    Str: 75
    Dex: Enough for max block using Marrows, Raven, Mara's, and Crest (which boost dex)
    Vit: Rest
    Energy: Base

    Using 6 Summoning Charms (I like 2 columns free to pick up the biggest item possible and then 2 columns to hold the town portal book + cube so I can continue picking up items for awhile without problems), Enigma (+2), Crest (+2), Homo (+2), and Mara's (+2), I get +14 skills, which turns to +15 with Battle Commands. I could boost my skills further by switching the rings for sojs and belt for arach, but that costs a lot of dex, attack rating, cannot be frozen mod, the How (unthinkable to drop that), the ias, slow, and str, so I think those +3 can be easily understood to be left. The boots add +2 to skeleton mastery and a bit to my bone armour until/if the bug is fixed.

    Merc:

    Obviously Might Merc
    Helm: .08 Gaze w/ 40/15
    Armour: Bramble
    Weapon: BoTD Ghost Spear (widely considered better than War Pike due to Speed of Ghost Spear trumping the dmg difference).

    This ends up with:

    Lvl 35 RS, Lvl 37 SM, Lvl 29 PD, 35 SM, 16 CG, 16 Revive with Fanat aura, Thorns Aura, Might Aura, and Battle Orders.

    Cost: (don't blame me for telling truth, im actually helping some of you guys)

    Most people ignore this and act as if the 290 currency doesn't exist, but I'm going to price this as this is actually important if you guys want to make your guy and have to trade beyond the Dii.net trade forums.

    Beast: 5 socket Zerker can be found easily, but if you want to be lazy: 1 290. Ber:3-4, Um:1-2, Mal: 2-3 (I'd shoot for 2), Tir and Lum are cheap and findable. Total: lowend:7, highend:10
    Enigma: 3-4 for Jah, 3-4 for Ber, Ith is easy. Total: 6-8
    CTA: Mal: 2-3, Ist: 3, Ohm: 3-4 (I'd shoot for 3) Total: 8-10
    BoTD for Merc: Ghost Spear is findable, but you can get for one. Vex: 5, Zod:3, rest are cheap and findable. Total: 9
    Bramble: Ohm: 3-4, Sur: 3-4 (unsure) Total: 6-8
    08 Gaze w/ 40/15: 1
    Wisp: 1
    Um'd Crest: 1 (but frequently you'll see going for 2)
    Perfect Mara's: 2
    Marrows: 1
    Rest you should be able to find pretty easily and if you have the 290s to trade, the rest should be somewhere on your mules.

    Total cost: 42-51. Expect it to cost you 40 if you're a good trade, 45 if you trade sometime, and 51 if you are desperate (and if you're not a good trader, you probably ebayed for the 290s in the first place, so ebay for the other stuff LOL).

    Not that anyone cares, but if I liquidate the rest of my tradable stuff and make the runewords I need (minus 4 summoning charms, but those are easy to get), I'll either have exactly enough to get the exact gear I listed or need one more 290 if I am can't get what I want for one given item).
     
  2. Har-Megiddo

    Har-Megiddo IncGamers Member

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    Note:

    You could switch the Eld for the Um, as the attack rating still matters for this Necro as opposed to non-melee necro builds, and so you could possibly get more use out of +22 resists than you would the extra vit you save at the cost of the attack rating you would get.

    Further Note:

    I would definitely go with the UM if PvM after consideration as that can be the difference between life and death when taking a hit from a gloom in your Hell Baal Runs. The Wisp helps, but you need max resists.

    Resists without Um:

    30 from quests
    +15 from Um in Crest
    40 from Homo
    30 from Maras
    = 115-100 (hell penalty) = 15 res all in hell.

    Add an Um to your shield and that's 37 res all. With Laying of Hands, you get max fire res, with gouts, you have 61. Wisp gives light absorb, but you still have 37 res in Hell to light.

    You CAN remedy this with 8 +5 res all small charms as you have 6 spots under your summon charms and 2 next to your Book to get max res.

    My ideal inventory layout for PvM:

    1sxxxxxx00
    1sxxxxxx00
    ccxxxxxx00
    ccssssss00

    1: tome of tp
    s: small charm
    c=cube
    x=summon gc
    0= empty space for picking up items.

    Another note: This means for PvP you can put on 2 more Summon Gcs and 2 more small charms, which can keep casters from hurting you as you will be above the res when they hit you while wearing -res gear.

    Also, in pvping, if your kill speed is fast enough with that teleport on top of them and die, you can use your Wisp Projector and create an Oak Sage instead of Heart to keep your guys in higher life.
     
  3. Har-Megiddo

    Har-Megiddo IncGamers Member

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    Additional Note:

    After looking over Doom for Merc, it is probably more viable for PvP than BoTD Ghost Spear. But, I don't see Crescent Moon being more viable than BoTD for PvM, as you will already be good enough to not need the static and the dmg and lack of leech makes your guy less likely to survive IMO. You could remedy the dmg and leech with Chains of Honour, but that requires dropping the Bramble, which then makes you lose out on the thorns aura.

    In conclusion, if you want to take a cheaper route: Go Crescent Moon and CoH over BoTD and Bramble, but note you lose thorns. If PvPing a lot (I see this build as more fun in PvM though), then go Doom and Bramble/CoH (for the resist, thorns won't do much in PvP).
     
  4. TheKbob

    TheKbob IncGamers Member

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    Hmmmm

    Yes, well nos coil is not the first choice in belts for me. Teleporting on people with 20+ skeletons is bad enough without "Ugh SLOW!"

    Making a Zerker, just know that you will not be PvMin with that unless you like it breaking. That's why I ranked the caddy over zerker due to Dur and it seems to have a better locking ability ( and cause its a Caddy, braggin rights :lol: )

    I dunno about thorns for PvP, most will frown on that, but if you out to be an a hole and kill and pk, well that is certainly down that road.

    I just use Iron Maiden on big WW barbs or charge//smiters, though Thorns may counter act life tap... that would be an interesting test to see if you could stop that leech.

    Too tired to think, may review more in the morning.

    ~Kbob
     
  5. Har-Megiddo

    Har-Megiddo IncGamers Member

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    Magic Finding:

    Since this guy is VERY item dependant for extreme killing speed, I think there are a few changes to make that will preserve your killing speed at it's height but also make some profit:

    Switch Marrows for War Travs (you get more vit, str, dmg, but your skele's drop a bit in power, your block rate drops, and attack rate drops)
    Switch Gloves for Chancies (you get less dmg for a slight amount of attack rating, but the gloves aren't that important as far as I can tell).
    Switch Belt for Goldwrap (you lose 15 str, and slow, but the ias remains) <- Problem is that if you are wearing travs, you're still down 5 strength. You can add 5 strength to your build to allow this change, but you lose a bit of life).

    When going for bosses, give the shouts with CTA, then put it in your cube, take out gull, and put it on switch and do the switch right before you take down the baddy. You can also switch the shield, but I wouldn't only because that requires too much space needed in your inventory/cube space and you ARE magic finding, which implies you are finding items.

    FYI: Helm provides MF and so does Wisp and Enigma.
     
  6. Har-Megiddo

    Har-Megiddo IncGamers Member

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    Well, I made came up with this guy's build primarily for PvM, but if I PvP, I go pubby, and slow isn't as BM as other things (besides, TPing around with the army is about as BM as it gets.)

    I might consider switching the Zerker for a Caddy. More durability, more speed, but it's a lot less dmg I think and it'll take probably forever to find, which might make me more inclined to just pick up and sell stuff to repair the zerker. Also, zerker has range of 3, caddy has range of 2.

    Also, in one of the notes after the initial post, I said you could go either bramble or CoH, as you could get resistances from CoH for your merc which helps in all out pubby duels and Thorns probably isn't that practical in PvP (as far as I remember, it sucks. I decrep melee duelers because it seems to be the dominant abuser of melee (too slow to hit with me using Nos, Clay Golem, and decrep, you're more or less done).
     
  7. Har-Megiddo

    Har-Megiddo IncGamers Member

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    Millionth note:

    If Pvping, it's probably not all that worth your time to raise the mages. You can probably get away with raising all your skeletons and if they happen to get a few extra kills before going back to town, make them revives for the extra life - there aren't physical immune characters in duels (no matter how hard they try), so the mages aren't very helpful, especially considering their much lower life. Use revives if you want to tp around with a huge army, but keep in mind that in 3 minutes (if you last that long), those revives will be gone.
     
  8. Har-Megiddo

    Har-Megiddo IncGamers Member

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    Update on my experience in trading:

    Laying of Hands, Lidless, Ravenfrost, Nos Coil, and Homun all go for much less than 290s, and you'd be better off magic finding for them because most people don't even bother trading them. Shako goes for 1/2 a 290 (or 1 3/20/20), Um goes for about 1, but many try to trade for 2).

    Enigma runes can be traded for about 6 290s if you are patient, as I traded 3 for ber, 3 for jah, and then traded both to a guy with a Dusk Enigma who I think didn't like his Dusk.

    +2 SM Marrows can go for less than 1 290, but if you don't feel like waiting around for awhile (I saw someone spend a couple hours trying to trade one for Marrows + Homun and still not get it).

    A poor wisp costs about 2 if you're desperate, A good one is about 4-5. Keep in mind most important part of this ring is the HoW and Oak Sage, so any Wisp will do unless you are very picky and want perfect MF and light absorb).

    A perfect Mara's can be traded for 1 if you're patient (mainly b/c a perfect mara's is somewhat hard to find and when people have it, they think it's worth 2, but find out no one will pay that much)

    I have found you can get a poor CTA for about 5 290s (I traded 7 for a mid-lvl one), and Sur seems to cost 4-5 instead of 3-4.

    All I need now is Bramble (which I think is priced @ 8-9) + BoTD Ghost Spear (which if you get the runes yourself, costs about 8-9), but at this point I'd like to play with this guy, so I'd settle for Crescent Moon Ghost Spear (around 2 290s) until I can get the BoTD (nah, just joking :p)

    I'm down to an SS, Balrog Chains of Honour, 6 290s, and some misc. uniques (6% Arreats, Wolfhowl, T-Gods, 2 Skullders), which seems to be valued around 15-16 290s - so I suppose if I trade for max value and then buy those 2 at lowest, then I'll have completed my guy.

    Also, I unsocketed my Eld'd Homo and put in the Um as I discussed in one of my posts in this thread, it seems more worthwhile.

    Oh, and if you were wondering about the values I discussed, this is USEAST Non-ladder, as I imagine the prices would vary depending on which server you are on.

    And I made the Beast myself and got 257% ED :( I guess it's not horrible considering 260% is avg for Beast. I made it in a zerker, which cost me 1 290 only because I was trying to get everything as fast as I can versus finding it or trading lower.

    If I had to ballpark, I'd say that the set-up on just my guy (not including merc) cost me 29-30 290s, which isn't all that bad when you compare it to say, a good BoTD zerker for a Barb/Paly.

    Dsiclaimer: Keep in mind I'm discussing this only in case you guys are wondering how much it is costing you to outfit your Commando Necro by my specs. and I am not trading on these forums (in 290s) nor would I if PMed (so don't try).
     
  9. Har-Megiddo

    Har-Megiddo IncGamers Member

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    With a CoH Ettin for those of you who want to have the CoH as a viable weapon on someone in the future, keep in mind that Ettin has a slightly higher str. req of 145, pushing the str. req up 7 (but now you can wear the MF gear without worries like I explained) and you will need 82 strength to equip all the stated gear without an Anni.
     
  10. Har-Megiddo

    Har-Megiddo IncGamers Member

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    Update on Build and Viability:

    It took 3 days of very casual playing and I'm lvl 76 (when I can wear all gear) and having beaten Hell solo (except a5, but that's only b/c I jumped into a Baal Run game and killed Baal to speed things up).

    Viability seems to be an issue that needs to be addressed. I need 4 more summon charms and my mercenary needs either Doom Eth Ghost Spear or BoTD Eth Ghost Spear (all I need to finish my build in it's entirety. @ 76, I do about 2k max dmg with the auras on and as a bear. I am essentially just like one of my skeletons in terms of life, AR, and dmg, perhaps a bit stronger. In Hell games solo, I could EASILY MF with this guy and never die as they can take out a monster or group in seconds once I teleport right into the group.

    Repair costs is not an issue if you sell 35k armours occasionally to cover reparis.

    Also, he's very good to use as a teleporter to rush with because with his minions and their auras, once you teleport somewhere, a monster RARELY hits you (since you're one of 28 - 12 skeles, 12 mages, 1 golem, 1 bear, 1 merc, more if you revive, but they aren't good except for hell ancients imo) and when you actually stop to amp dmg and let your minions start attacking, the area is cleared quickly. Much MUCH MUCH better than many sorcs who rush because they rarely die (I died once soloing travincial in an 8 person game and a couple times when I get iron maidened and forget to tp back to town) and can still do massive dmg when you focus all the minions on the key characters with teleport.

    In full 8 person games however, he cannot solo from act 3 and beyond. He can solo in 8 person games in 1&2 (which means you can run the pitts in full games efficiently).

    The pros (as I see so far): As a summoner, you can get the bodies for your skeletons easily as you take a1 hell guys out in 1 hit in solo games and 2-3 in full games. Also, it's very satisfying to be able to 1. teleport 2. have might, fanat, thorns, battle orders, HoW, and battle commands on a full army 3. raise a bear 4. turn into a bear to rip bosses to shreads. Bosses are NOT a problem and go down VERY fast.

    Cons: I don't think I could do the dmg I do without the best gear possible and he cannot solo 8 person games in A3 (starting with trav) and beyond. Also, you're likely to piss off palys who use fanat, might, or thorns, and everyone else in baal run games when their crap computers lag out to no end when I show up in their screen, but I'm sure every experienced necromancer who played summons is used to the "DUDE, SUMMONERS SUCK" and "STOP LAGGING US U EFFING NECRO."

    Best tip possible playing this build: When you see oblivion Knights, teleport on top of them and take them out in seconds to prevent being iron maidened. If you do, go to town and be healed, because you can't step back and let your army destroy itself within seconds and then be viable at all.

    What I would change: Beyond getting the rest of the items according to my specs I originally layed out, nothing. He seems to be built very well and is the most fun to PvM with or Magic Find with I've played.
     

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