Creating value from Pgems and gold (Kartongens confusion about crafting and unhealthy circlet addiction)

Kartongen

Diabloii.Net Member
Hi all.

I am starting to amass a fairly sizable collection of gold, Pgems and other socketables now (I have saved everything up until now :p). And I am not quite sure how to best spend it. Before, I used to play on ladder and all Pgems, jewels and craftingrunes were sold for gear for the various characters I started (usually a duo that came to mid hell, then we started others).
Since I planned to not trade (at least initially) during my SP stint, my plan was to spend all of this crafting on my own. But after realizing that I had misunderstood how crafting works in the current patch (Thanks @zemaj), I am starting to questions its use.

So I was hoping to spur a discussion here on what you use your Pgems, junk jewels, junk runes and gold on. I will ramble some below, and input my own thoughts, but feel free to disregard it and just post your preferences. "I do X because Y" is obviously more constructive than "I do X".

Regarding gold I suppose what gold is left after monetary moron mortality mitigation and repairs is spent on gambling (and shopping). But what do you all gamble? I have usually gambled circlets so far, partially because the +x skills are a huge boost in the range I played the most (up to early/mid hell) and partially because I like the look of Amazons and Sorcs with freeflowing hair. XD But I am looking to exploring my options.
I can see the benefit in gamling amulets and rings aswell, seeing how they are always available, even if I have not gambled them extensively so far.
What do you all gamble? Where do you all feel a good magic/rare can surpass a S/U? (Or do you gamble to fish for a S/U?) Do you usually wait to a certain level before you start spending gold bigtime? Do you use your gold for something else?

Regarding Pgems the main sinks I see are 3 Pgems reroll, 6 skulls reroll and crafting. Crafting has the benefit of also bringing some value to junk jewels and low runes, but as I hinted above... I sort of lost the appetite for. I am hoping you all can make it appealing again.
As crafting "only" grants you 4 affixes (apart from the fixed ones) over rares 6 affixes, the fixed affixes needs to be worth 2 rare affixes (generalizing a bit). I can see the value for the caster amulets (that seem to be the most prevalently crafted), as they raise the roof for one of the most useful caster stats (i.e. faster cast rate). I can see some benefit in crafting blood/hitpower weapons, since the 35-60% ed could stack nicely with other offensive mods. (But this is likely more prestige, as I have a hard time seeing it compete with the various runewords.)
What do you usually craft? What recipies do you think are useful? Which are "prestige" recipies? Which are "worthless"? Is there anything I am missing regarding crafting?

For 6 skull rerolls... I have been confused about the math until I started writing this paragraph. I first though (ilvl = int(.66 * clvl) + int(.66 * ilvl)) meant ilvl would decrease over rerolls, but it will stabilize with ilvl>clvl. So this is probably where my skulls will go, now that I looked at the math properly. ;)
What items do you use this item for? Do you put you skulls toward other purposes over this (e.g. the reroll in next paragraph)?

For the 3 pgems reroll, I know (hell baal) grand charms are the popular option here. Is it used for other things that skillers (and some small charms)?



Gems of lower quality is something I took an interest in after reading various untwinked guides recommendation of the chipped magic item socket/reroll. For instance, all elite assassin weapons apart from Suwayyah should be able to roll +3 traps (runic talons being the obvious choice though).
There is also a recipie for normal and flawless gems. While the normal recipie seems fine, but virtually unusable since you cant reroll the same base, the flawless recipie seems too pricy.
Do you the chipped recipie for "high end" use (i.e. not untwinked low levels)? Do you use any of the other low quality gem recipies in large volumes (i.e. more than using a gem to upgrade 1-2 runes)?

Also interested of course in potential use for junk jewels and low value runes not used in crafting (and spirit packs etc).

tl;dr
What ways are there to turn junk to funk?
 

bgalakazam

Diabloii.Net Member
I was tempted to 6 PSkull reroll rare jewels. But they are indeed *rare*. And I wouldn't go more than one reroll per item.
 

Kitteh

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
I consider Pgems very valuable. Especially as I am HC, and possibly lose some once in a while :p, any extra source of skillers is appreciated.
 

Kartongen

Diabloii.Net Member
I was tempted to 6 PSkull reroll rare jewels. But they are indeed *rare*. And I wouldn't go more than one reroll per item.
I thought this aswell, until I looked at the math today. If your clvl is as high as the ilvl (e.g. if you are level 85 and reroll something found in a lvl85 area) the ilvl of the rare will increase with rerolls (and stabilize a bit above your clvl after a few rolls).
Out of curiosity, why specifically jewels? What are you hoping for?

@Kitteh Do you use them all for skiller farming, or do you do any crafting etc aswell?
 

LongingForDeath

Diabloii.Net Member
For 6 skull rerolls... I have been confused about the math until I started writing this paragraph. I first though (ilvl = int(.66 * clvl) + int(.66 * ilvl)) meant ilvl would decrease over rerolls, but it will stabilize with ilvl>clvl. So this is probably where my skulls will go, now that I looked at the math properly. ;)
You have the wrong formula for that. It's actually ilvl = int(0.4 * clvl) + int(0.4 * ilvl). That means, even if your character is level 99 and you reroll an item that Baal dropped (ilvl 99), you'll only get an ilvl 79 out of it. Each roll lowers the item level significantly.
 

Edmond Dantes

Diabloii.Net Member
You have the wrong formula for that. It's actually ilvl = int(0.4 * clvl) + int(0.4 * ilvl). That means, even if your character is level 99 and you reroll an item that Baal dropped (ilvl 99), you'll only get an ilvl 79 out of it. Each roll lowers the item level significantly.
And this affects the mods that can be rolled on those items, with only one exception (diadems). Correct?
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
Just for my 2c, I craft caster ammies and use all non amethyst gems to reroll GCs. When I finally have enough skillers (7 of all the useful types), I will start rerolling scs for 7mfers instead. I dont bother with the other craft types or the circlet rerolls.

I never have the gold for extra gambling so I only gamble the amulets I use for crafting. If I had a ton of gold I would consider gambling any/all of circlets amulets and rings. My lack of a fcr ring with mana leech makes me think I could stand to craft blood rings or at least gamble more rings though.
 

bgalakazam

Diabloii.Net Member
6 Perfect Skulls + 1 Rare Item = 1 Random Low Quality Rare Item of the same type
You can use this formula to get another chance at a Rare Item of the same type. ilvl = int(.4 * clvl) + int(.4 * ilvl) Player level matters. This formula will not work on items larger than 3x2.
The diadem will be lower every next time
 

LongingForDeath

Diabloii.Net Member
even with Diadems?
Even with Diadems. However, if I'm not mistaken, Diadems have a really high quality level, which allows most (or all?) affixes to spawn even at lower ilvls. But don't quote me on that, as my knowledge about item mechanics isn't that advanced.
 

Kitteh

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
I thought this aswell, until I looked at the math today. If your clvl is as high as the ilvl (e.g. if you are level 85 and reroll something found in a lvl85 area) the ilvl of the rare will increase with rerolls (and stabilize a bit above your clvl after a few rolls).
Out of curiosity, why specifically jewels? What are you hoping for?

@Kitteh Do you use them all for skiller farming, or do you do any crafting etc aswell?
I keep amethysts and rubies for blood rings and caster amulets :)
 

WoRG

Diabloii.Net Member
Diadems do have a high qlvl (85), but more to the point, they also have high m(agic)lvl (18), which, because of the way affix generation works, means even an ilvl 1 diadem can spawn ANY affix that can spawn on a circlet...

Note that rerolling rare jewels is still something that can work a few times, as the highest alvl rare affix on jewels is only alvl50... (and in 1.08 (only), rare jewels can get up to 6 affixes!)

I believe that caster amulets are by far the most common crafted item in modern patches...occasionally people also craft rings, Hit Power gloves (knockback), and Blood helms (Deadly Strike), gloves (Crushing Blow), or belts (Open Wounds)

Crafting in 1.07/1.08 is much more powerful, with better automods even on lesser crafts (to say nothing about greater crafts), especially in 1.07 where you can get blue-only affixes...

WoRG
 

Kartongen

Diabloii.Net Member
You have the wrong formula for that. It's actually ilvl = int(0.4 * clvl) + int(0.4 * ilvl). That means, even if your character is level 99 and you reroll an item that Baal dropped (ilvl 99), you'll only get an ilvl 79 out of it. Each roll lowers the item level significantly.
I knew there was a reason I never liked it, but then I mistakenly looked at the "use a SoJ to reroll" recipy. Thanks for saving me a bunch of skulls.

And regarding diadems, they are magiclvl 18. And magic level is added to itemlevel to determine affix level, right? So in their case alvl = ( int(0.4 * clvl) + int(0.4 * ilvl) ) + 18.
So they should be fine if I am not mistaken. (checked on ilvl 85 items, it stabilizes at alvl [83, 86, 89, 94] after a few rolls for clvl [80, 85, 90, 99])
Just for my 2c, I craft caster ammies and use all non amethyst gems to reroll GCs. When I finally have enough skillers (7 of all the useful types), I will start rerolling scs for 7mfers instead. I dont bother with the other craft types or the circlet rerolls.

I never have the gold for extra gambling so I only gamble the amulets I use for crafting. If I had a ton of gold I would consider gambling any/all of circlets amulets and rings. My lack of a fcr ring with mana leech makes me think I could stand to craft blood rings or at least gamble more rings though.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, caster ammys seems to be the fashionable choice, which makes me want to craft something else. But everything else (apart from maybe two of the weapons) seems so weak.

Just as I am to post this, I see @WoRG also posted about diadems. But there was som complementary info in this post I think.
And thanks for the input on jewels and the other potential crafts @WoRG and @Kitteh. :) And I agree, 1.07 crafts seems so nice. I was never temted to timetravel until I realized they nerfed crafting so much.
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
Diadems have magic level 18 and quality level 85 so their affix level is always 99. (alvl= max(qlvl,ilvl)+mlvl for items with magic level)


Regarding gold But what do you all gamble? I have usually gambled circlets so far, partially because the +x skills are a huge boost in the range I played the most (up to early/mid hell) and partially because I like the look of Amazons and Sorcs with freeflowing hair. XD But I am looking to exploring my options.
I can see the benefit in gamling amulets and rings aswell, seeing how they are always available, even if I have not gambled them extensively so far.
What do you all gamble? Where do you all feel a good magic/rare can surpass a S/U? (Or do you gamble to fish for a S/U?) Do you usually wait to a certain level before you start spending gold bigtime? Do you use your gold for something else?
I think circlets, rings and amulets are good gambles because they always have the potential to compete with Crafts and S/U. (I have several magic fcr rings with like 25+ Lightning res, absolute twinking gems ;))

The same applies to Boots, Belts and Gloves and in that instance you can get away with gambling them at a super low clvl because all the best mods have a very low affix level. I gamble Belts and Boots with a character thats somwhere just about clvl 30 and the boots/belts I gamble on only cost 5-8k gold which means that a full bank can last you more than an hour of (fast) gambling.

If you care about goldfind equipment and want good GF boots/amulets/belts then Classic is of course the ultimate source and no amount of gambling in 1.07+ will give you 119% GF. A caster belt with 10% fcr/80% GF is of course a serious competitor as well but who knows how long it takes to craft a good one.

Generally I only gamble certain items at certain clvls to make the best out of my gold, so Rings at 91 (for 6% ML), Amulets at 95 (for +2), Coronets at 87 (for +2) and Circlets at 92 (for +2). It's worth noting that no Circlet you click will ever become a Tiara or Diadem so won't be able to get 3os ever.

I'm pretty sure that gambling Helms, Armor, Shields and most Weapons is a complete waste of time and gold. Same thing goes for targeted gambling for Uniques and Sets.


For 6 skull rerolls...
What items do you use this item for? Do you put you skulls toward other purposes over this (e.g. the reroll in next paragraph)?

For the 3 pgems reroll, I know (hell baal) grand charms are the popular option here. Is it used for other things that skillers (and some small charms)?
I would only use this on rares that can't be gambled such as Class-Specific stuff. With 30% price reduction you pay about 100-150k per circlet/coronet, so about 1-1,5 million gold per rare gambled. You can literally get that within two minutes of doing council whereas 6 PSkulls take significantly longer to accrue.

I guess most people would certainly reroll GCs from Dia/Baal/Nihla. If you are insane you could try to reroll SCs from Nihla and Baal to have a chance at the highest possible elemental damage SCs (e.g. 2-99 Lightning Damage SC is possible) which can't be found in any other place.
 

MizzouFTW

Diabloii.Net Member
Diadems do have a high qlvl (85), but more to the point, they also have high m(agic)lvl (18), which, because of the way affix generation works, means even an ilvl 1 diadem can spawn ANY affix that can spawn on a circlet...

Note that rerolling rare jewels is still something that can work a few times, as the highest alvl rare affix on jewels is only alvl50... (and in 1.08 (only), rare jewels can get up to 6 affixes!)

I believe that caster amulets are by far the most common crafted item in modern patches...occasionally people also craft rings, Hit Power gloves (knockback), and Blood helms (Deadly Strike), gloves (Crushing Blow), or belts (Open Wounds)

Crafting in 1.07/1.08 is much more powerful, with better automods even on lesser crafts (to say nothing about greater crafts), especially in 1.07 where you can get blue-only affixes...

WoRG
@WoRG Could I reroll rare jewels to end up spawning with envy affix (20 psn) among other things? So I could roll some pretty awesome twinking jewels forlevel 1 twinkled characters?
 

Kartongen

Diabloii.Net Member
Diadems have magic level 18 and quality level 85 so their affix level is always 99. (alvl= max(qlvl,ilvl)+mlvl for items with magic level)

[lots of nice gambling and rerolling advice]
You are right, I forgot to account for the qlvl floor in the ilvl calulation. Good point.

And thanks for all the extensive and constructive advice regarding gambling and rerolling. I really appreciate it.

@MizzouFTW I cant find any info on qlvl and magic level for jewels (I assume it is 1, but I cannot confirm). If those are known, and you know what level affixes you want, you can certainly reroll rare jewels for that by tweaking the character level used to reroll them.
 

mir

Diabloii.Net Member
Regarding gold I suppose what gold is left after monetary moron mortality mitigation and repairs is spent on gambling (and shopping). But what do you all gamble? I have usually gambled circlets so far, partially because the +x skills are a huge boost in the range I played the most (up to early/mid hell) and partially because I like the look of Amazons and Sorcs with freeflowing hair. XD But I am looking to exploring my options.
I can see the benefit in gamling amulets and rings aswell, seeing how they are always available, even if I have not gambled them extensively so far.
What do you all gamble? Where do you all feel a good magic/rare can surpass a S/U? (Or do you gamble to fish for a S/U?) Do you usually wait to a certain level before you start spending gold bigtime? Do you use your gold for something else?
I totally agree with @art_vandelay . In my last gambling session, I focused on belts, gloves and boots. While I rarely use them, some have real potential as good replacement for unique/set gloves for future chars.

Boots I find more useful because it’s one of the main slots for resists for 2-h chars and casters. Belts can be good source for resists & FHR when you need it.

Regarding Pgems the main sinks I see are 3 Pgems reroll, 6 skulls reroll and crafting. Crafting has the benefit of also bringing some value to junk jewels and low runes, but as I hinted above... I sort of lost the appetite for. I am hoping you all can make it appealing again.
As crafting "only" grants you 4 affixes (apart from the fixed ones) over rares 6 affixes, the fixed affixes needs to be worth 2 rare affixes (generalizing a bit). I can see the value for the caster amulets (that seem to be the most prevalently crafted), as they raise the roof for one of the most useful caster stats (i.e. faster cast rate). I can see some benefit in crafting blood/hitpower weapons, since the 35-60% ed could stack nicely with other offensive mods. (But this is likely more prestige, as I have a hard time seeing it compete with the various runewords.)
What do you usually craft? What recipies do you think are useful? Which are "prestige" recipies? Which are "worthless"? Is there anything I am missing regarding crafting?
While getting godly craft is nearly impossible especially compered to 1.07 crafts, I still craft armors, helms, shields and weapons for that small and tiny spark of addiction to gambling ("just one more time! I'm feeling lucky") ...

You are right with your feelings, with all the changes over the years (increased rune drops, ladder runewords) and the more you play and accumulate "wealth", its harder to craft something that can compare even with elite unique weapons not to mention Grief, Oath etc... IMO crafts can really shine in untwinked/tournaments play style where you are restricted and start from zero.

That being said, I still craft a lot of items and keep them for the good feeling of having something with potential.

Except gloves, belts and jewelry, my list of preference is:

  • Blood weapons (IAS, high ED, 1-2 sockets)
  • Hit power weapons (high ED, IAS, no knockback)
  • Blood helms – great for mercs (looking for DS, FHR, life/resists)
  • Caster boots (% to max manna, resists)
----------------------------
  • Everything else
For 6 skull rerolls... I have been confused about the math until I started writing this paragraph. I first though (ilvl = int(.66 * clvl) + int(.66 * ilvl)) meant ilvl would decrease over rerolls, but it will stabilize with ilvl>clvl. So this is probably where my skulls will go, now that I looked at the math properly. ;)
What items do you use this item for? Do you put you skulls toward other purposes over this (e.g. the reroll in next paragraph)?
Again, agree with @art_vandelay . I was using them to reroll diadems but for my next session I intend to use them on claws and necro heads to try and get some interesting combination between automods. As I understand it, at some point the item level preventing form item to spawn with lower tier automods, rerolling will lower its ilvl and there will be a chance for interesting combination. Going to use 1-3 rerolls per item

For the 3 pgems reroll, I know (hell baal) grand charms are the popular option here. Is it used for other things that skillers (and some small charms)?
I use only topazes and diamonds for re-rolling, also use any GC with ilvl of 80+. Looking for skillers but also accepting GC with:
- High AR
- High damage & AR
- [email protected] all
- Good STR/DEX/FHR & Sharp/Steel combination
 

maxicek

Moderator Single Player
I covered the 6 PSkulls recipe in my claw guide:

- Rare Runic Talons, Feral Claws and Scissors Suwayyah re-rolled by any character level 58 and higher will have a base tier of 5 for staffmod generation and a chance of getting all the desireable affixes (alvl=50).
- No other claw types can get all the desireable affixes if re-rolled more than a few times.
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
You are right, I forgot to account for the qlvl floor in the ilvl calulation. Good point.

And thanks for all the extensive and constructive advice regarding gambling and rerolling. I really appreciate it.
Glad I could help!

There's two more things that I think are relevant:
  • Diadems below level 26 can't get 2os so the whole 'Diadems get all mods at any lvl' thing might be true but if you imbue a Diadem with a character of lvl 8 you can never get a dream rare.
  • Here's the list of Classic affixes compiled by @GalaXyHaXz . Especially the safety crafts with their '5-10% Single Resist' bonus seem super weak when you look at those juicy 49% single res mods that are possible on some of the classic rares. (Also note that 7% ML is possible on a classic rare ring and the clvl req is only 4, whereas if you craft a bloodring from an ilvl 71+ ring the 6% ML mod will push it to a clvl req of 96 (!) )
 

Kartongen

Diabloii.Net Member
Realized I had some replies here I had missed. A nice surprise to come back to. :)

@mir Yeah, I think I will extend my gambling to boots, belts and gloves aswell. Even a half good belt will probably be an improvement for me. I need res badly on my current fishyzon.
And I think I might end up crafting alot aswell. It just seems like a nice way to use jewels (some of which are so bad) and some low level runes.

@maxicek Reread your guide now. It cleared it up a bit. I did not realize the staffmods were rolled with the ilvl unaffected by qlvl, and that qlvl seems to only matter for the alvl and nothing else. Thanks.

@art_vandelay 49 single res, and 5 more affixes. Quite insane. Sad that they nerfed them imo. I would have liked it where a sick craft was best in slot.

Does anyone have a good recourse for affixes with the alvls? Preferably also sortable by item type. I usually use this, but it has neither alvl or any sorting function.

Leveling up her some for now. Will probably start crafting some amulets relatively soon. And gambeling some too, since the stash is currently full.
 
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