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Cow King v1.00 drops are truncated!

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Treeharl, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. Treeharl

    Treeharl IncGamers Member

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    Greetings,

    Today I discovered something I never thought it was true. As it seems all of the Cow Kings drops, drop in patterns. Most likely those patterns are caused by mapseed. This is very usefull because the Cow King has +/- 20 items it could drop. One third of the time he drops an unique item. If you have the selected unique item in your stash another call will be made up to a maxumum of five. However I discovered the additional calls are NOT random at all. After hitting 5 times exactly the same drop from the Cow King I guess the fun starts... (moddisclaimer: legit char playing vanilla 1.00 here)

    Edit: It seems like even the set drops use the same pattern, you won't see the other Plated Belt + Great Maul + Bone Helm as the call for a set item succeed after hitting a plated belt.

    Cow King's Special Drops (exeptional items are possible aswell exept Grim Helm and Lance)
    Code:
    Ancient Armor
    Light Plate
    Full Plate Mail
    Gothic Plate
    Crown
    Bone Helm
    Mask
    Gauntlets
    Greaves
    Ring
    Gothic Shield
    War Axe
    Pike
    Great Sword
    Great Maul
    War Sword
    War Staff
    Repeating Crossbow
    Long War Bow
    War Scythe
    Giant Axe
    
    Screenshot04.jpg
    Screenshot05.jpg
    Screenshot06.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
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  2. Treeharl

    Treeharl IncGamers Member

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    I figured it out, well atleast for normal difficulty.

    Personal map seed tuncation applies! This means if you reroll your map you get different patterns. The tc3 or tc6 or tc9 item detemens your pattern. It seems that every mapseed has its own likelyhood of a selected tc3 or 6 or 9 item. What I do know is when a different magic tc item spawns on the same mapseeds the patterns are different. I am going to levelup my sorc a bit and I'll test nm difficulty, it might be the case that exeptional items have different patterns instead of the normal counterparts or they might be the same.

    Possible magic items (not complete!)
    Code:
    Wand
    Large Shield
    Short Staff
    Dirk
    Heavy Gloves
    Amulet
    Boots
    Studded Leather
    Scepter
    Spear
    Quilted Armor
    Mace
    Short Bow
    Long Bow
    Skull Cap
    Hunters Bow
    
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  3. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    This discovery could make for some EXTREMELY easy SoJs.

    Also, a very very quick way of getting a 5x dura rare weapon, or simply a desired rare base item. Even just exceptional armor; getting 75-100k per run would in itself be pretty massive for those who aren't 1.00 goldfind experts.

    EDIT: The Cow King is the most obvious one, but I don't think it's just him. Rakanishu and Griswold seems to always spawn with the same properties on a given map, even in hell, and when killed seem to drop from some very limited items also.

    Likely, this seed truncation applies to every monster.
     
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  4. Treeharl

    Treeharl IncGamers Member

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    Yes it does make extremely easy sojs. There is however a major restiction, once you know exactly your seed you already got that one soj and you don't want to reset your seed! That means you're capped at just one soj as muling is dreadfull as we see. The biggest potential is ofcourse patterns with Martel de Fers and Ornates if we are playing classic or any kind of boots or rings if we want to forward them to LOD. Indeed every monster and (non super)chest is tuncated in this way.

    Also added Quilted Armor and Mace to the magic droplist and Giant Axe to the super droprate.
     
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  5. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    It would speed up the process of SoJs though, knowing which items to look for in his other drops so as to know when to abandon a map. Like, if you know that if he drops item X, Y or Z, that map seed does NOT drop rings, you'll still save a lot of time.
     
  6. Treeharl

    Treeharl IncGamers Member

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    It looks ALOT like lower kurast rack running. Because the seeds aren't always stable (atleast on nm) it means you need to roll untill you have a stable seed. I am currently testing a map with atleast 17 different patterns atm, If I get 25 different ones I'll reroll. At normal I had only 5 or 6 possible patterns from which the picks where chosen.

    The same applies to bosses, usually the boss always appears at exactly the same spot on a certain mapseed but sometimes even when doing exactly the same the boss is totally different. In that case the mapseed is unstable, I guess this applies to the Cow King and all other tuncations aswell.

    Added Skull Cap, Hunters Bow and Long Bow to the magic list!
     
  7. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    I want a cow king who drops two rare plated belts =) Hitting a rare plated with 119% goldfind and some other great affixes is the goal. And ofc belts for use in 1.00 too.
     
  8. Treeharl

    Treeharl IncGamers Member

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    As I thought, stability mathers ALOT!!! @helvete I really recommend you make an excel sheet of your mapseed like I did and compare your personal patterns with eachother. If you have to many different patterns you all hit only one time just reroll! As you can see I have two seeds with a War Staff so I trashed my Iron Stone and added Iron Bong which will gain me alot more rares in the future!

    Compare the old seed to the new seed! (Stable Executior Sword seed :))
    mapseed.jpg
     
  9. Treeharl

    Treeharl IncGamers Member

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    Okay I did too many Cow Runs NM and indeed everything is perfectly truncated. I guess on nm there are 20 personal patterns. As you can see the data overrides eachother meaning even the different patterns show too much truncation from eachother to be entirely random! Oh and till this moment ALL rares have been trash (talking about bad luck -.-!)

    Also the mlvl of the Cow King is (31/56/81): (normal/nm/hell)

    mapseed2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
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  10. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    OK, so for every time the magic item was "axe", the other items were exactly the same? I can see only one duplicate here, which is Light Crossbow. I kinda stumbled upon that one (hell difficulty) as I simply had a lot of them drop unique, so I kept one. Then drops turned into a whole other dimension.

    I can also confirm I see a lot of Great Pilums. They are ALWAYS superior, never above or below in quality. I haven't been able to confirm them actually being from the king though.
     
  11. Treeharl

    Treeharl IncGamers Member

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    @helvete indeed all the items are the same. Fact is duplicate magic items do happen with different patterns. If you see the number before that collum it says times found. Yes I matched pattern 1, 9 times! Still to clarify:

    Pattern 5:
    Rare pattern: Quilted Armor, Ancient Sword
    Set pattern: Quilted Armor, Ancient Sword, Mask
    Unique pattern: Quilted Armor, Ancient Sword, Mask, Death Mask, Gothic Shield, Great Pilum (With face of horror in stash, without it is Quilted Armor, Ancient Sword, Mask)

    All those patterns are a match! Expect atleast 16-20 different patterns so it might be confusing. Make an excel table like I did and start running!

    Also about the Great Pilum question, if a throwing item is magic+ it doesn't spawn that way as that quality doesn't exist the highest quality existing is superior that is why they are always superior! Also to add exeptional throwing items from act 3 nm and higher are always superior no mather what happens...

    PS: I killed that mapseed by leveling the character and preparing her for hell cows.
     
  12. imakeigloospat

    imakeigloospat IncGamers Member

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  13. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Well, this has made me stop gambling for rings, pikes and plated belts =)

    Which leaves only amulets and the "TC3" belt/armor/hat/boots which are very cheap, so 90% of my gold is now amulets. Found an improvement over Eye of Etlich, but still looking for the truly top end ones for barb and sorc.
     
  14. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    So unless the rares are good rolls, they're useless to run for over and over?
     
  15. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Well, the affix pool is pretty limited already, so I guess it COULD still be coincidence. If you're going for money, the enhanced defense affix will help a lot.
     
  16. Treeharl

    Treeharl IncGamers Member

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    Now everything seems to be confirmed I think I'll write a complete guide on Cow King running in about 5 days. Still I would like to know how many patterns are available on hell difficulty before doing so.

    @helvete could you make an excel table on your cow king seed on hell like I did for nm? I want to know how many patterns you have.
     
  17. imakeigloospat

    imakeigloospat IncGamers Member

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    No coincidence. The rare items will eventually be literally 100% identical but the 'rare name'. Not just the affixes, but the exact stats as well. This is actually the case with Diablo 1.00 in general, not just Cow King.

    Act 4 champions have a 12,5% chance to drop a rare item. When I farm gold I do champion runs near both the WP's in A4 and accumulate 150k gold/30sec (max GF barb with 2 superior harpoon chests near WP and 3 champion packs), and once in a while I get an identical rare item as I previously got. I don't remember if the base item can be different but with identical stats, someone will have to confirm that as I don't play myself anymore.

    So gambling for SoJs is by far the fastest way to get them as I can literally get one in less than 10 minutes. But it's still nice to farm rare weapons / ornate plates / grim helms as you can't really gamble those. Everything else one might as well gamble, and especially amulets. Farming A4 champions is much better EXP wise as well.
     
  18. Treeharl

    Treeharl IncGamers Member

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    @imakeigloospat I haven't seen any duplicate rares from the cow king! I did 100 runs on nm and all rares had different prefixes suffixes and names. I think you're confused with regular chests as they drop the same rares as previously indeed. Super chests do drop different rares each time however. I identified over 500 rares from the cow king while gathering that data and rest assured all where entirely different!

    Also when you encounter a duplicate item, everything is duplicated including the name and not only the prefixes and suffixes. I would certainly have noticed if I encountered duplicated items in that case.
     
  19. imakeigloospat

    imakeigloospat IncGamers Member

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    Well, if you trust my word I can with 100% confidence tell you that you will get duplicate rare items as I previously mentioned. That is exactly what the pictures in the thread I linked to shows you. I've seen this behavior both from the Cow King and champions in Act 4.

    I have no doubt that I have played the most 1.00 in these forums as I played almost it exclusively for five years. I have all classes above level 90 (and very high level barb and sorc) so you would imagine the playtime I have and the amount of items I've found. I will have have a look in my archives and see if I can find evidence, but the rare items I've found is indeed drops from monsters and not from chests.

    I've also seen a discussion about this before but unfortunately cannot locate said discussion. Either way, I will try to see if I can find some evidence somewhere. :)


    Edit:
    I cannot find any of my old screenshots. I don't want to sound arrogant here or anything, I just think it would be very unfortunate if you by this point thought this was an impossibility as I have witnessed it is not. I think it's great that more people are interested in 1.00 and appreciate the deep digging you guys are doing here. And as I said back in the other thread seven years ago it looks like I knew it was a possibility to obtain a rare battle hammer and ancient axe with exactly the same stats on the same map seed. So good luck with your future research. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  20. Treeharl

    Treeharl IncGamers Member

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    @imakeigloospat I trust you about the duplicate items, I am just unsure it also happens to the cowking. If you run a regular chest it is duplicate indeed. Maybe there are 65536 personal patterns "mapseed" from the cowking and you start noticing duplicates after 1k runs or so.... That might be the case and in that case hitting a duplicate still takes 500 runs or so to happen (and you have to notice it).

    To summerize what I know
    - There are 16-20 personal patterns at cow king nm. If you hit a matching pattern the prefixes and suffixes are usually different.
    - The set rare and unique drops count as pattern match
    - The total different rare pool is quite big to say the least (atleast +/- 1000 items I guess it is 100k or so before everything gets truncated).
    - Having uniques in your stash and inventory massively amplify your chances of getting decent rares.
    - Rerolling gives entirely new personal patterns.

    Edit: Sorc finally hit lvl 50 time to clear hell and gather some data!
     

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