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Confusing Calculations

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by TopheavyHookjaw, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. TopheavyHookjaw

    TopheavyHookjaw IncGamers Member

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    Confusing Calculations

    OK. First off, I tried to dfind the answer myself and got different answers each time. Mabye one of you Amazon Stats Gurus can shed some light on this.

    I was wondering about the damage for Witchwild String used with strafe.

    Here's my problem. Where does the +damage from the level 20 MA come into the equation. Is this before or after the possibliity for DS or CS. Same holds true if the bow manages to amp the monsters.

    In addition, where does the +damage for the strafe come in?

    Thanks for the input in advance.
     
  2. newbiengod

    newbiengod IncGamers Member

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    okay first problem don't use witchwild string. it just sux. that should answer your question. GET A NEW BOW. :drool:
     
  3. YogiRat

    YogiRat IncGamers Member

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    Well, I'm not a stat person so take this as just a personal observation. The lvl20 magic arrow on regular attack with a Witchy only converts physical into magical damage. There is no AR or damage boost like actually using the skill. I know this is fact because I have 4 points into MA, and have compared the two. As far as Strafe goes, the Witchy works just like any other bow. IIRC, CS is checked before DS. But, believe me that DS really matters. The chance to cast Amp seems to me to be caused by arrows, not shots. In know this because amp triggers so frequently when I strafe, way more than 2%.

    oh, yeah, ignore that other poster. His handle, or at least part of it is quite apropriate.
     
  4. Freyas

    Freyas IncGamers Member

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    As far as I know, the AR and damage from magic arrow is present, but not shown in the character screen when you use Witchwild String. However, it will not affect your damage calculations with strafe, since the Fires Magic Arrows modifier only works when you use normal attack.

    The amp has a 2% chance to trigger when your arrow hits a monster. Thus, using multishot and strafe, where you hit many things in a short period of time will trigger the amp much more often than using a normal attack, guided, or any of the elemental skills. The effect of the amp is to double the overall damage you do, and is calculated after critical/deadly strike. Critical and Deadly strike occur when your arrow hits the monster, and will double the physical damage that you do at that time- so after any dex/ed bonuses you have.

    As far as I've been able to tell, the damage conversion from MA, cold arrow, and fire arrow all take place when you fire the arrow, so critical strike and amp damage will not affect the amount of damage that is converted into magic/elemental damage.

    I don't recall where exactly the ed from strafe is calculated in comparison to other ED bonuses or your dex bonus, but it takes place before critical/deadly strike or amp damage do. If you take the listed(physical only) damage listed on the character screen, that will be the damage when you fire your arrow(though I'm not sure if the magic damage from magic arrow is not present, or just not displayed). If you get a critical strike, it will deal double the physical damage that is displayed. If the creature is amped, you will then get double that damage, so if you get a critical strike against an amped monster, you will be doing 4x your listed damage.

    I hope this clears up some of your questions- I'm not really a stat guru, so if someone finds any mistakes in my post, I'll be happy to bow down to superior knowledge :p
     
  5. YogiRat

    YogiRat IncGamers Member

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    Aaah, the character screen lies again, but in a good way:lol:
     
  6. JoJeck

    JoJeck IncGamers Member

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    Let me add a few things to this and expand on one or two points in particular.

    Firstly, Amplify Damage (and the related Decrepify effect) actually affect the physical resistance of the monster. AD lowers the physical resistance by 100%. So in Normal and Nightmare where most monsters have 0% physical resistance AD does indeed double the effective damage and Decrepify adds 50% extra. But in Hell where most monsters have some physical resistance this is no longer accurate. Take Hell Bovines on Hell who have 50% resistance, and AD will reduce this to -50%. So your arrows will be doing 150% of the headline damage with AD and only 50% without it. That is an effective tripling of damage. :)

    Secondly the order in which physical damage calculations are done and the various ways things affect them can best be explained by thinking of damage as the product of four parts.

    Damage = A x B x C x D
    Strictly speaking you'd need to do this calulation twice, once for Min Damage and once for Max Damage.

    Part A is the basic damage of the bow as shown on the character in blue. To this are added the + min and +max damage from charms and equipment like War Travs.

    Part B is basically all the %ED bonusses from stats and skills and auras and these are added together. So for instance with 300 Dex (from stat points and equipment), using maxed stafe (=100% ED), with a might merc (230%) and wearing Lionheart armour (=+20%) the value of B would become.
    B = 1 + 300% + 100% + 230% + 20%
    B= 750% = 7.5

    Part C deals with the special effects of Critical and Deadly strike ( x 2) and the penalty for Multishot and Strafe (x 0.75). So for a Guided Arrow shot Part C would be 1 without CS or DS and 2 if CS or DS was successful. And for Strafe Part C would be 0.75 normally and 1.5 if CS or DS had succeeded.

    Part D deals with the Monsters physical resistance and and how Amplify Damage and Decrepify affect the damage actually dealt. Strictly speaking it is not part of the bows damage but it does determine how many hit points are subtracted and that's really what we're all interested in ;)

    Hope that helps clear up where the various things fit into the overall damage equation.
     
  7. TopheavyHookjaw

    TopheavyHookjaw IncGamers Member

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    Just looking at the posts, it seems like there is some discrepancy here as well. Not to mention the fact that not all damage seems to be diplayed on the screen.

    Let's break it down and see if we can't make more senseo of this.

    Let's upgrade the WitchWild String, assume 200 Dex, 200% ED from might merc, 100% from stafe and 100% DS from Bow and Highlords.

    Upgrading makes the damage average between 91.25 and 98.55 (150% - 170%) for 94.9 average or let's just say 95.

    95 * 5 (for Dex, 200% ED, and Strafe) = 380

    475 * 2 for DS = 950

    950 * 1.5 (2 for Amp and .75 for strafe = 1425

    I'm sure I messed up somewhere in the order, can somebody please point out the mistake.

    Also, where does the +MA damage come into play?
     
  8. Leto`

    Leto` IncGamers Member

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    @ TopheavyHookjaw :

    U read over your answer ;)
    This is the explanation
     
  9. TopheavyHookjaw

    TopheavyHookjaw IncGamers Member

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    However, I must point out, that many people are reporting that damage on the screen is not accurately describing the real damage. That is why I'm checking things in a little more detail.
     
  10. superdave

    superdave IncGamers Member

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    don't think the wws fires ma while strafing...i use this on switch for one of my zons for phys immunes and i've always single shotted.....takes awile but they fall over...lol
    please someone who uses this bow more than i do correct me if i'm being an idiot
     
  11. TopheavyHookjaw

    TopheavyHookjaw IncGamers Member

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    On a side note. If the MA only works with single shots, will it combine with GA?
     
  12. YogiRat

    YogiRat IncGamers Member

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    Bow skills do not stack. The only time you get the MA boost with WWS is with regular attack. The same goes for the Kuko or Hellcast with exploding arrows/bolts.
     

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