confused about blade fury build

[BIGeyedBUG]

ilkori, could you calc Strength in an eth suwayyah with Rattlecage and Swordback while you're at it? It iz teh sekzay, and will completely own these posers. :thumbsup:

 

[acceleration turkey]

Hey now, don't be knocking math. Just because someone can't use it right doesn't make math bad. It just happens to be more objective and accessible than in-game testing, even if it is more difficult. I guess I'll toss in my $.02 again.

Rule #1 - Damage is damage, and you are looking for the highest possible damage output.
Rule #2 - Damage done on AoE is as many times more effective than damaging singly as there are enemies in the AoE. See #1.
Rule #3 - In-game testing usually takes less time than doing the math. However, math can be analysed by anyone with the skills to follow. Furthermore, the end result can be followed more easily.

Now, for my own whack at things: (This first set of numbers is very rough; if you guys want changes, let me know. Setup happens first, then comes number crunching - probably next week some time.)

Typical life of a monster in Act 5 Hell
- small = 2000
- med = 8000
- large = 20000
- Baal = 50000

Typical lightning resistance = 35% or immune

Typical physical resistance (for those not immune, or 0 res)
- Undead = 50%
- Other = 25%


Basic Assumptions

• Both players don't have a problem dying - shadow/merc/resists take care of that problem

Design pack of monsters:

• Quantity = 15 (work with me on this number)
• Life = 15000
• Lit Resist = 35%
• Phys Resist = 40%
• Other resists = 60% (accounting for immunities and high resist monsters)
• Defense = 2000

Setup 1, Ristev's Assassin:

• Jah'd Eth Stormlash, Duress, Guillaume's, etc. (rest of equipment following the guide's optimal equipment)
• attack speed = 6 frames per blade
• Charms (only counting 1/2 of an inventory; Ristev's picks)
• 1 BF, 20 Shadow,
• Mercenary (Ristev's pick); attack speed calculated according to German calc

Setup 2, Acc Turk's Death Assassin:

• Death Eth Ettin Axe, Fortitude, (Acc Turk, you pick the rest)
• Attack speed = 6 frames
• Charms (only counting 1/2 of an inventory; Acc Turk's pick)
• Mercenary (Acc Turk's pick); attack speed calculated according to German calc

I'm willing to do the calcs on this, but it'll take me a tiny bit of time to set up the spreadsheet for calculating damage, then again for calculating damage resolution. Based on some concept of numbering and AoE ranges, I'll try to figure out monster design damage.

there are some problems with doing the raw math. for one thing, rits seems to be making the build to succede in players 8 hell level 90+. i have no such goals. the build is most definitely over by that point for me. i will be playing alone or with my friends in groups no larger than 3.

moroever i think the setups will have different attack rating. he seems to want ITD and i want high AR. this will change effectiveness based on target.

also, baal has 500,000 hp :thumbsup:

i plan to have decrep on almost everything i hit. i will use lawbringer on weapon switch to trigger decrep on groups. this will be successful because unlike reapers toll, lawbringer has a much higher level decrep which lasts for 12 seconds, not 4. lawbringer has defense cut so like reaper's ITD i should be able to score hits reasonably fast.

i plan to have aoe on my merc with crescent moon. when dealing with players 8 frenzytaur boss packs or some other inconquerable force, it really doesnt matter how frequently you trigger static because you will be fighting them for long enough that as long as you have the mod somewhere it will be equally useful. after 2 or 3 casts of static the damage is done no matter what.

i plan to have 3 x angelic jewelry and also trangs belt. this gives about 180 life, cant be frozen, and huge AR. thus i dont get any "damage" from this gear but it improves attack delivery and also survivability immensely.

but here is my setup anyway, at level 80

*death / fort setup*

we'll go with ettin axe for more damage even though i plan to use a berserker
guillaumes hat
fort
angelic amulet
angelic ring x 2
trangs belt*
gores

this leaves gloves and shield WIDE open. here are some ideas:


laying of hands/ghoulhide + storm shield/pdiamond upgraded mosers/dream troll shield:
assuming the damage to demons works normally and multiplies weapon damage, this will add a huge amount of physical damage to demons because death is such a sexy base. you could also go the undead route and equip ghoulhide which adds less damage but huge AR vs undead, as well as mana steal (if you even need that).

stormshield will give me huge survivability with some resists, DR, blocking, and def, or mosers gives great resists, blocking and def. IF i wanted to add damage, i would use a dream shield for the holy shock aura, which would add over 300 average lightning damage (about twice as much elemental as tiamats). dream also has huge def, some resists, life, and hit recovery. bad blocking though.

cleglaws gloves + shield:
this one appeals to me the most because it will be available earliest, but it probably isnt worth it. basically the 2 item set bonuses for cleglaws and the gloves themselves are really good. knockback, +800 AR at level 80, 25% slow, +15 res all.

drawbacks include no actual damage, really bad def and really bad blocking, and possibly redundant AR. but i really love slow target on any build and for this build i think it along with knockback and decrep could spell disaster for any boss pack. i would consider using cleglaws gloves alone along with one of the shields mentioned above, so i figure as long as im thinking about using the gloves, the shield would make a good companion. slow target and knockback are of course mods which are "immeasurable" in their benefits because they have varying usefullness and are more survival oriented than damage oriented.

EDIT: after looking back at the new runewords, it seems that phoenix is actually the best because of the massive enhanced damage mod. it would also give redemption though, which may interfere with corpse explosion. still, i love the resist max and absorb, as well as the life, and casting firestormwould look cool. and of course the damage is right. it has an absurd cost however.

*belt discussion*

i chose trangs belt for the freeze mod mostly (because my setup doesnt use a ravenfrost) and the life bonus is nice too. but as long as im not limited to my own inventory, lets go ahead and put a cham rune in the guillaumes and pretend we have freeze covered. this opens the door for more belts, including the AR optimizer build below. but, if i cant get a cham rune for my real setup, you bet ill be using trangs belt. i cant stand being chilled.

belts:

razortail:
+10 max damage with DS from Guillaumes gores and death and fort +300% bonus, assuming it applies to razortail, gives about 70 max damage. this is pretty cool, along with a big dex bonus.

IK belt:
resists and a big strength bonus to help reach enough strength to potentially use stormshield if it is worth using. could be combined with IK gloves for even bigger stats bonus. unfortunately the 2 set bonuses here arent very good for this setup.

verdungos/string:
for survival obviously.


*ultimate chance to hit setup*

cleglaws gloves + cleglaws shield. +10 AR per level, +15% res all
hsarus belt + hsarus boots. +10 AR per level, +2.5 def per level
angelic jewelry x 3. +24 AR per level, +75 life
fort
eth last wish zerker. ITD
guillaumes, with cham.

this would give +44 AR per level. this would add 3520 AR at level 80. this is before any dex or %AR bonus is factored. this setup begs for an ethereal last wish main weapon because of the loss of CB from switching out the gores. mid-roll last wish + guillaumes = 95% CB. this setup would give huge AR and also ITD from last wish's 3 jah runes. it would hand all-comers, chance-to-hit-wise.

this setup is cool because everything but the weapon, armor and hat are available from normal difficulty. hsarus' boots have just enough speed, 20%, to make them workable.

you could also make a full orphan's call set build, just for style. gloves, hat, shield and belt dont interfere with the armor or the weapon. it wouldnt be the greatest but having a full set might turn some people on.

*merc setup*

merc will technically have eth ogre axe crescent moon, but a thresher is probably better because it has lower reqs and also hits a bit faster. like i said before, this build *will* have static.

advantages of static on the merc:
1. frees the assassin up from having to carry this mod.

2. the merc can host, if you are rich enough, as many as 7 perfect lightning facets: 3 in the hat and 4 in the body. that is -35% and +35% lightning res and damage. this turns him from a crescent moon sedan into a crescent moon dump truck. while i certainly cannot afford this, it is a possiblity. i would rather just put boring old shaftstop and possibly vamp gaze on him for survival, or guillaumes and duress for damage. on an assassin, you cant possibly have that many facets because odds are you only have 2 slots free in your shield and hat (body is a runeword).

3. crescent moon delivers level 13 static, whereas lash delivers level 10. while 11.3 yards may not seem much more than 9.3 yards in terms of radius, the areas of 400 yards and 271 yards are pretty different. crescent moon will hit more monsters per cast, even though it hits half as often. it has a 50% larger area.

*charms*

my build has a clear advantage in the charms department because of greater deadly strike and also (i think) the +300% damage on fort works too. thus a perfect +14 max damage grand charm becomes extremely effective with this gear. assuming 70% DS at level 80, 14 max becomes (14 x 4) x 1.7 = 95. i am not sure if off-weapon damage is still cut to 3/4. in real life i have a variety of decent max damage and elemental charms waiting to be used for this build. i cannot afford 14 max damage grand charms, but i have some 5 and 6 max damage large charms.


ilkori:
if you want me to pick a final setup with no "maybes' i can do that. but since the start i just wanted to illustrate the choices made possible by the new runewords. let me know and i will pick final items if you really want to do calculations.



some final words:

i am no stranger to the mods that ritz hails as the best for this build. one of my favorite builds i ever tried was a zeal/holy shock paladin in single player, using guillaumes, gores, and crescent moon. it was an awesome build and i aprpeciated the power of ITD, static field, crushing blow and elemental damage administered at a high frequency. a lot of the items i used then are recommended by rits for this build. the blade fury and shockadin builds themselves have very similar functioning principles, strengths, and drawbacks. i understand and appreciate these principles.

however, i will say that while the paladin tore through minions and regular monsters, he had a hell of a time scoring a hit on pack bosses, champions and act bosses. it was enough to make me want to tear my hair out sometimes as i was basically praying for a hit and a static cast against tough champion groups. my ability to do damage was based on mediocre physical damage, mediocre elemental damage, decent crushing blow, and chance of static, *all administered at a high frequency.* once the chance to hit dropped, everything dropped. i was helpless against anything that was immune to ITD and it was very frustrating. i had maybe 2.5k AR or so.

thus i will never pretend that ITD is some kind of cure-all mod which solves chance to hit problems. it doesnt. it gives you false confidence as you slash through monsters who are weak anyway and eventually you face someone who doesnt accept the ITD mod. high AR and defense cut mods will always be better than ITD, especially because monster level and player level play such a large part in chance to hit, and boss and champions have higher levels than other monsters. unless you plan on doing nothing but cows, then there is no substitute for high AR and defense cut.

rits:
it is a sad day when people are so possessive of the builds they make that they are unwilling to accept people who are interested in challenging or just introducing something different.

as for the calculation, "5x physical damage," i have never done the calculations of how much, with deadly strike, and with transferring the damage through the blade fury skill, that death would actually do compared to stormlash. suffice it to say though my original calculations stand. regular lash + duress compared to death + fort is a difference of about 5:1 physical damage. after you factor in items like guillaumes and gores which are common to both builds the damage ratio is probably less than 5:1 but it is still a big difference, even with highlords, especially when i bring in damage charms.

your overall damage in the window is also based on lash's lightning damage, tiamat's damage, and probably charms as well. my damage will be mostly physical and augmented by decrepify, which will increase crushing blow's power tremendously also.

my most important argument against stormlash stands as well: you will be done with the game before you can use it. that registers a 10 on the no fun-o-meter. my runewords will be ready to use around level 60 or so.

a jah'd eth 278% stormlash on us east ladder would cost me 6 x ist + mal. a death ettin axe would cost me 3 x ist + 2 x um, plus the cost of an eth ettin axe which is probably low. i am lucky enough to have found an eth berserker axe, which is an expensive item, but technically for this build an ettin is cheaper and also better. however i plan to use the death for other builds as well so i need it in the berserker base. needless to say cost is not low in either case. but even after you factor in duress and fort, your setup still costs more.

frankly this is all getting out of hand. i read the blade fury guide a long long time ago. here is the proof:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=214013

that thread is over a year old. i made a thread this time to get some specific questions answered, and i got them answered pretty much. someone asked me if i read the guide, and i wanted to prove that i had, so i said i did but it was missing the info about ladder only runewords, which is true. i dont want to be accused of not reading the guide when i have read it thoroughly.

i used to be single player only, but i have been on east ladder for the past month and i already have a fort and may have a death soon. so i wanted to revisit the build that i thought was so cool with the new items available to me. as you can see from the old thread, i was planning a gimmer, crescent, or stormlash build, since i had all of those available to me in single. on ladder the possibilities are even larger.

i like the guide.
i read the guide, completely, several times. however i have not memorized the guide so i may forget a few things from time to time. so i dont appreciate being accused of skimming or having poor comprehension when ive given my tmie to read it. as for enchant helping AR, it only helps if you have base AR to work with. if you have 1200 AR, level 23 enchant wont save you even after it triples your existing AR. all i can do is say i hope that the 3100 AR in your screenshot is before enchant and not after enchant, because 3100 AR is damn low. 9k AR would be fine for killing bosses though.

i like the build.
i understand how it works. i am not trying to create a sister build. i am not trying to coin a new build. i am not trying to get in the stickies, or the compendium. i just wanted some information about how the ladder only runewords could be used in the build. thats it. i made a passing comment about how the guide was missing that information, and the rest is history.

your response was, and is, that the guide is already perfect and the runewords dont need to be discussed. well if that is still you position, you are the one blowing smoke. im going to make it my mission to make this build and report the progress along the way in this forum. i believe that it will be very successful. i will make it pending some future trades so i can afford a vex rune, regardless of any calculations. i wil report how the build does and what i used. then i will have more to discuss besides the raw numbers. you are right, you have finished the build and i am just theorizing. but im willing to put it to the test. :thumbsup:

 

[Ritslev]

rits:
it is a sad day when people are so possessive of the builds they make that they are unwilling to accept people who are interested in challenging or just introducing something different.

I'm far from possesive...
I'm defensive of the build.

For the reason that your posts have stated that the choices you propose are better.
I simply disagree, and when challenged, I do expect to be _proven_ wrong. Some of your statements are assumptions or guesses...

as for the calculation, "5x physical damage," i have never done the calculations of how much, with deadly strike, and with transferring the damage through the blade fury skill, that death would actually do compared to stormlash.

When making a statement such as this, please do the math, or at least provide a screenshot of the damage spoken of, instead of toss around a huge number. The damage in the screenshot i gave is -without- Deadly strike, static, Crushing blow and so on.

The damage you speak of, as well as mine would produce from Deadly strike as well as Crushing blow and the other stats we speak of are virtually the same. Thus including them in your caculations but not those I state are non-comparable.

-I would still like u to give me a screenshot of your damage...-

your overall damage in the window is also based on lash's lightning damage, tiamat's damage, and probably charms as well. my damage will be mostly physical and augmented by decrepify, which will increase crushing blow's power tremendously also.

And mine with the Static, at times Amp damage.. so on and so on... the statement was made on the overall damage.. and the other stats will have to thus be the little added bonus to make it all tip the scale

my most important argument against stormlash stands as well: you will be done with the game before you can use it. that registers a 10 on the no fun-o-meter. my runewords will be ready to use around level 60 or so.

Which is where we differ in game style.

I create a build to play it.. not for the making of the build. So while you'll be able to use yours sooner (which is cool)... it's just only the start of the game for me...

This was indicated as well in my guide...

i like the guide.
i read the guide, completely, several times. however i have not memorized the guide so i may forget a few things from time to time. so i dont appreciate being accused of skimming or having poor comprehension when ive given my tmie to read it.

You have my apologies for stating that you only skimmed it. Your post indicated this and perhaps I was wrong in stating such.

You speak of the low attack ratting as being a problem.

And to this I can only answer :
When the build was originally created there were a LOT of people conserned about attack rating. -And rightfully so-.
ITD offers you a huge step up on fixing this problem, but as so many people noted it didn't solve the bosses... So I tested and retested and came to a very odd discovery.
The 3-4k attack rating is suffice.. Yes hold your horses a sec. Hold it!...
Against bosses ... for some reason I can't explain... The attack rating works just as well as 10-13 k ... I have no logical explenation and I don't expect u to take my word for it... you see the only proof I have of thise are people that posed all these questions and then joined me in 8 player games where I proceeded to solo Baal... With no problems what so ever.
While I have do desire to get into this whole attack rating debate, you do state Acceleration that it's a false sense of security with ITD, and I agree. Which is why I indicate again and again that Demon Limb is the backup to this whole idea..
This part of the debate can go on back and forth and so on.. I'm going to leave it at this.. that is the findings, that myself and the 5 other old'furysins' found and that is what I'm clinging to here as well..

i just wanted some information about how the ladder only runewords could be used in the build. thats it. i made a passing comment about how the guide was missing that information, and the rest is history.

With that said I do though also wish to state that I never objected to new items... I do though wish to insert my oppinion on them being better or not.. and I still don't beleive them to be better, after testing them early on I didn't enter them into the guide cause I found them expensive and a bit pointless. Yes the prices of DII have changed.. I remember when Eth Lash was 3 high runes (and a normal Lash was Ist) so since' Im not trading any more I*ll not go down that path cause I*ll just shoot myself in the foor.


----- QUOTE FROM MY FIRST POST ON THIS THREAD -----
Are they great runewords?.. Yes.
Can they benefit the Furysin?.. Yes.
Do they improve the Furysin compared the the current setup?... No.

Point is.

The new runewords are powerful but their lacking of stats which make the Furysin build work, makes them not usable in the long run.
---- END QUOTE ----

Long run.. meaning once the build reaches level 90+... which is where we differ in game style..

----- QUOTE FROM MY THIRD POST ON THIS THREAD -----
Does your setup work? Damn straight it does and it works well.
Does it improve the Furysin? Yes it does...
Does it overpower the old setup? ... I'm afraid not.
---- END QUOTE ----


As you can see have I in no matter of mind stated that they waren't good Runewords. I have though stated and will persist to state that the setup I propose will overpower the setup you propose Accelerate...
Keeping in mind the consept of gaming I proposed in the first part of my guide :
That this build is to work in 8 player games, hell style.

your response was, and is, that the guide is already perfect and the runewords dont need to be discussed.

I'm not saying it's perfect..(See the previous posts). I'm saying that currently the items provided deliver no great change. the runewords need to be discussed, and I feel that is what this has been all about.

When in a debate and you provide an issue to this debate that isn't acknowledge as an improvement. Doesn't mean that it's not taken up to thought. Merely that it's been reviewed and passed on for something better.

By all means I'd like to put it to the test ...


I feel I'm starting to beat a dead horse..
SonOfRa

 

[Dad Daniel]

I've also became intrested in the BF sin and made one in single player.
Throw a phoenix shield into the Death + Fort combo - it's unbeliveable.
At first the aura seems to clash with the Death sentry but it's workable - and worth it.

Phoenix shield on this build is like to spit on a **** - you will make the things worse!
I TESTED in the real game phoenix monarch (387%ed) on a Shuriken assassin { EuHCL }, called ninjaTERMINATOR :lol:. I will summarize my results only in 3 short points:

1. The damage boost is huge, BUT the mother-****ing-freaking-assholepenetrating-skullcrushing mode on Phoenix rune word:
!!!40% Chance To Cast Level 22 Firestorm On Striking!!!

make it CRAP

With my blessed aim merc/enchanted-demonlimb/angelic combo char i was casting and PRE-casting the stupid ugly fire storm so often :rant: that in some situations i was in grim danger (damn in hardcore all is so hotty!) swarmed by a dozens of monsters , unable to move, not even to attack, but casting the IDIOTIC firestorm ( unbelievably improved by the -28% enemy fire res on this rune word :lol: )!

As close you are to your enemy with phoenix, as often you will be in such danger.

2. Using Phoenix means you will turn your build in the a s/c assassin. Ok!
Isn't that nice?? - someone will ask,
NOOOO!!!! is the only answear - Phoenix monarch as a shield means UNCLE****ING BLOCK = TERMINATED TERMINATOR (i thank Lord that not happend).

3. To be honest, the phoenix in this build haves only one advantage - the
Level 13 Redemption Aura When Equipped !, but only for style...
This nice looking aura actually turns my ninja (relative with T-100) in a trade mule, cause she was using max DEATH SENTRY/max LS... and that was actually the last stone over her dead car?er as a playable character.
:uhhuh:

 

[ilkori]

Once (if) this gets set up, comparing setups won't be difficult.

ilkori, could you calc Strength in an eth suwayyah with Rattlecage and Swordback while you're at it? It iz teh sekzay, and will completely own these posers.

Sure thing. I can make it a War Fist if you want. :thumbsup:

there are some problems with doing the raw math. for one thing, rits seems to be making the build to succede in players 8 hell level 90+. i have no such goals. the build is most definitely over by that point for me. i will be playing alone or with my friends in groups no larger than 3.

That's not a problem. I listed base life, and multiplying it the appropriate value for "Players X" is not difficult.

moroever i think the setups will have different attack rating. he seems to want ITD and i want high AR.

This is trivial to include. Hell, I've been working on calculators that include the +4 ar/dex for a long time.

this will change effectiveness based on target.

Agreed. Look at my "Design Monster" again. I can vary any/all mods on that. I just made a few simplifying assumptions that should give fairly decent results.

also, baal has 500,000 hp

And not to good lit resistance. That's one reason I'm curious about the changes.

i plan to have decrep on almost everything i hit.
[...]
i plan to have aoe on my merc with crescent moon.
[...]
but here is my setup anyway, at level 80

*death / fort setup*

we'll go with ettin axe for more damage even though i plan to use a berserker
guillaumes hat
fort
angelic amulet
angelic ring x 2
trangs belt*
gores

this leaves gloves and shield WIDE open. here are some ideas:
[...]
if you want me to pick a final setup with no "maybes' i can do that. but since the start i just wanted to illustrate the choices made possible by the new runewords. let me know and i will pick final items if you really want to do calculations.

I'll get back to you about the exact setup if both of you (Ristev and Accelleration Turkey) are interested in the results. Some other comments from the quote:

1) Casting decrep from a weapon switch is (imho) a poor way to do it. There would be some penalty for the time it takes to switch weapons, fire a few shots to strafe the crowds, and switch back.

2) The specifics on the setup (exact gear, merc, level, etc.) are all I need. Estimating life and (final) damage aren't needed. Yes, these do need to be exact (with no "maybe") for the real calculations, though they are very useful for someone interested in making the build without the exact "best" gear.

By all means I'd like to put it to the test ...

Cool. I'll start working on a calculator once I'm back from a weekend vacation.

!!!40% Chance To Cast Level 22 Firestorm On Striking!!!

If I'm getting this, you were doing a casting animation rather than shooting blade fury; right?

 

[Naliworld]

Phoenix shield on this build is like to spit on a **** - you will make the things worse!
I TESTED in the real game phoenix monarch (387%ed) on a Shuriken assassin { EuHCL }, called ninjaTERMINATOR :lol:. I will summarize my results only in 3 short points:

1. The damage boost is huge, BUT the mother-****ing-freaking-*******penetrating-skullcrushing mode on Phoenix rune word:
!!!40% Chance To Cast Level 22 Firestorm On Striking!!!

make it ****

With my blessed aim merc/enchanted-demonlimb/angelic combo char i was casting and PRE-casting the stupid ugly fire storm so often :rant: that in some situations i was in grim danger (damn in hardcore all is so hotty!) swarmed by a dozens of monsters , unable to move, not even to attack, but casting the IDIOTIC firestorm ( unbelievably improved by the -28% enemy fire res on this rune word :lol: )!

As close you are to your enemy with phoenix, as often you will be in such danger.

2. Using Phoenix means you will turn your build in the a s/c assassin. Ok!
Isn't that nice?? - someone will ask,
NOOOO!!!! is the only answear - Phoenix monarch as a shield means UNCLE****ING BLOCK = TERMINATED TERMINATOR (i thank Lord that not happend).

3. To be honest, the phoenix in this build haves only one advantage - the
Level 13 Redemption Aura When Equipped !, but only for style...
This nice looking aura actually turns my ninja (relative with T-100) in a trade mule, cause she was using max DEATH SENTRY/max LS... and that was actually the last stone over her dead car?er as a playable character.
:uhhuh:

Watch the swearing. We get your point well enough without you having to resort to expletives, thank you. If you absolutely must use expletives, allow the forum to censor the words(don't bookend tags, and put spaces between the offending word and the next), and do not direct the expletives towards any user in this forum(censored or not). If you don't adhere to these rules, I'll take your swearing as flaming and deal with it as such.

 

[Butchke]

Phoenix is a joke in single player.
But I'm talking about the pvp side of things so its another story.
BTW, ritslev - how do you get 3.5k without phoenix / fort?

 

[sexyfool]

Wow lot of passionate arguments here. Thanks for the information provided.

I have used Ritslev's guide as a base for making my new furysin (SClWest) and have handled everything in norm/nm with ease and am now soloing Hell. I havent bother to xfer my demons limb over because i am happy to be patient with act bosses. Btw, you realise that if named act bosses and champions are hard to hit that mb spam and good herding allows you to hit the norm monsters next to them and generate the aoe spells you have on the bosses and lack of ar then makes no difference.

I have read the arguments in the post with great interest. I tend to agree with Ritslev on some counts but Accelaration turkey has scored a few winners too. After playing this sin for the last two days I have a few current and practical points to make.

Static.
I currently use Crescent Moon in a superior ettin. I will not be using Stormlash because (point to A'turkey here) lvl 82 is simply too high for a pvm weapon. I will not use any other weapon (point to Ritslev here) because the build does not need it. After PLAYING the build a couple of things become obvious. Static gains radius per lvl. CM is lvl 17% static which seems to be about 3/4 of a screen. So 75% of monsters on your screen drop 25% of their life whenever you hit . BF is fixed at 6 frames yes? Dont put vital modifiers on Mercs who die more than you and hit slower than you. That static mod is godly don't waste it.

Ar.
It doesnt matter how much dmg you do, if you dont hit them, your dead. More Ar is good so long as it is not at the cost of vital mods. That said, every pvp baba has demons limb in his stash and it really works a treat. Want more ar? Add ar charms. Add dex charms. Itd pwns all norm monsters, so ar is really only for bosses who do not appear in packs. Don't sweat it. If adding cheap charms can fix your problem u dont have a problem.

Ele dmg.
Why? Seriously why? The best dmg in the game for pvm is phys dmg. Period. This build has stacks of cb so the only reason u need ele dmg is for PI's right? So use amp. The 1st "customisation" I applied was to lose the Highlords in favour of atma's scarab. Nice ar boost, ok poison res and simply,godly,chance to cast amp on striking. This and static together are all the aoe u will ever need. Both spells will help with packs and Bosses, both spells augment existing skills. Ask any necro what casting amp on a pack before using CE does for your kill rate.

Gear
I have used Guillames,atmas,dusk Fort, ettin CM, SS (bartucs/sigs on switch for prebuff), Nos coil, raven, rare dual leech res ring, Gores. Reasons for changes were Fort > Duress. Aturkey wins here hands down. When I put on Fort my dmg doubles,life goes up 1 pt per lvl, armour def is 1480 and I have 12% dmg to mana (check baba pvp posts for why this is often ignored but is very very handy) and a useful 5% boost to max light res. Don't get me wrong, I liked Duress but fort pwns it hard. Want Fhr? Get some charms. 5%fhr in an sc vs how many extremely expensive plus max dmg sc's u need to counter the 200% boost fort gives you? I have dropped the souls for gloves because of chance to cast weaken overriding chance to cast amp. The jury is still out on whether it will be 'rends or something else. I will let u know how that goes. SS for shield vs tiamats. Was I the only one who said what the? when Ritslev said u shouldnt get hit? Omg omg omg. I dont want to get hit. Honestly, truly. But I do. SS gives me 35% pdr, great def and godly block. Repeat after me, there is no shield like StormShield..............

And that is my 2 cents worth. I have not finished Hell yet and if my opinion changes when I do I will post here. The conclusion? Ritslev imo Aturkey is right about the armour. Loss of cb % is tolerable for the benefits gained by Fort over Duress. Aturkey, Ritslev is right about the weapon. Play the original build or as close as possible and use a CM weapon. Mine cost um for axe plus runes. Cheap enough and usable as Pally weap later. Really play it. Max dmg per SINGLE target actually defeats your purpose because you want to hit often enough to generate the aoe spells, but if u kill your target in 1 hit u then have to aim on another. Pack control is far better if u kill your target with 3-5 hits and get static and amp generated on the whole pack. I am not a fan of merc generated spells. Those fat lazy guys just dont poke often enough for me. Your item suggestions would really take down bosses fast, but would be slower for packs.

Respect both ways people. Lets hear your thoughts.

 

[ilkori]

With 1.11 coming out (possibly soon) I retract my offer on doing a BF calculator. That may change again if 1.11 affects the skills in negligible ways, and all the old stuff is still available.

 

[Dad Daniel]

Watch the swearing. We get your point well enough without you having to resort to expletives, thank you. If you absolutely must use expletives, allow the forum to censor the words(don't bookend tags, and put spaces between the offending word and the next), and do not direct the expletives towards any user in this forum(censored or not). If you don't adhere to these rules, I'll take your swearing as flaming and deal with it as such.

The aim was to put one "mythologiacal" high rune requiring runeword at its place - on the garrbage. I was so exited by the "South park - the movie" - thus i decided to put some salty humor here!! (and 90% of the "bad words" are inspered from there :lol: )!

Uhh.....what "expletives towards any user in this forum(censored or not)". I haven't offened nobody in this post

If i have done something wrong, then i am really sorry! :innocent:

 

[Ritslev]

Fortitude

4 Socket Weapons/Body Armor

El + Sol + Dol + Lo


Weapons
20% Chance To Cast Level 15 Chilling Armor when Struck
+25% Faster Cast Rate
+300% Enhanced Damage
+200% Enhanced Defense
+15 Defense
+(1-1.5)-(99-148.5) To Life (Based on Character Level)
Replenish Life +7
+5% To Maximum Lightning Resist

Body Armor
All Resistances +25-30 (varies)
Damage Reduced By 7
12% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
+1 To Light Radius



http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/runewords.shtml



Toss me a screenshot of the Fortitude armor please...

 

[Ritslev]

Can someone please post a in game picture of the Fortitude Armor... since there seems to be some confusion as to the nature of this armors use as well as stats...

 

[jmervyn]

I find myself in agreement with sexyfool in general support regardin Sonof Ra's stance. Last ladder, Angel_Veil was up through 89, mostly on self-found gear.

However, I had no Crescent Moon or Stormlash - the ability to rely on the static is not essential to the build, simply optimal.

I'm not talking against bosses either, cause there the Lash will work it's wonder as well. Even the Cresent will outdo u there.. cause of the Static. This stat... static that is... is perhaps the best in the game, so don't look away from it to get more damage, it's critical in this build.


There is one thing I want to agree with you on!!!!
Either get an ETHERAL Lash.. or don't get it at all.

Am I being an eliteist? No.. but while u wait on that Eth Lash.. and wait on beign able to pay for it.. use a Cresent Moon.. or Death (<--- Yeah I never said it wasn't good.. I just said there were better out there)

I'm not in disagreement, but the point is that untweaked hardcore will have a hell of a hard time getting these, so yes, he's being elitist.

So if you just happen to be-bop into a Lo rune, yes, I suppose you should create a Death - but those of us who are legit hardcore could very well be scrounging for Um's and 3 os blades to socket them in. Why waste HR on something that really isn't ideal? Sure, you could make all kinds of interesting variants, and should (I finally got Delerium on a helm and it is loads of fun - I could Cow solo in 8 players in a heartbeat). But why do so, if you can get the Guillame helm?

Incidentally, my end-ladder-game setup was dual shadow claw switch, and Sprit/Ghostflame, and it rocked. She wore Rattlecage until about two months before reset. I've still got her. The thing that helped extensively was finding an eth Reapers Toll that someone had dropped in a pubbie town (sorry, and thanks) - but the Decrepify isn't as good coming from your claw if you can get it another way. Even now my Delerium stomps on the Decrepify so I consider donning a Tal Rasha mask for bosses. And choosing between Decrepify and Static seems like a no-brainer to me - Static every time.

I don't consider SonofRa infallible, but I'd argued with him before about Venom's use - and I was wrong. Venom simply doesn't add enough capability to the build, and I would have been better off pumping my Lightning skills.

I do like the realization that Cleg's is fantastic for early game though; I've always advocated it. I've got a mid-40's still using the full set until she gets better stuff.

 

[Ritslev]

I don't consider SonofRa infallible

Far from it.. I have :

Full of faults and errors


Printed on my head..


Point is I don't debate nor argue unless I think I have a valid point...


About untweaked hardcore.. Damn man u got me there.. yrah maybe I am elitist.. never played HC before due to lag deaths...

 

[Ritslev]

Have this thread died?

 

[BatTheMan]

Have this thread died?

yes considering it's a month since the last reply. What else is there to discuss?

 

[fredsta54]

I would like to discuss other blade fury wepns, considering there hasnt been much talk on them. You didnt mention using a high ds weapon with atmas scarab, amp + 100% deadly strike is awesome. Yes, my blade fury assasin uses eth upd headstriker with atmas and, i find its killing speed comparable to lash + highlords. It all depends on the size of the group, and, against lightning immunes it is 100% better.

The idea of using ghostflame is pretty cool, considering i have a perfect 1 sitting on a mule.

Its avg dmg is pretty high, build in itd means i dont have to get a jah (which is impossible for me anyway) 108 magic dmg, mana steal, im liking it.

I guess any wepn with build in itd and high dmg is worth a look *off to attreat summit*

Also, ritslev, tiamuts is not the best. Less than 150 elemental dmg combined, id rather use lance gaurd (the shield with 20% deadly), mosers, or even an ss.

If you can get close to 100% deadly, please do. It will allow you to use atmas over highlords.

Just my experience, anyway.



EDIT: Eth fleshripper looks insane





Fred

 

[YogiRat]

I would like to discuss other blade fury wepns, considering there hasnt been much talk on them.

Ok, what about a Ribcracker? 50% CB and all the other stuff. An upped eth would be, well, we all know the drill. No block though. I wouldn't try it in HC.

 

[BIGeyedBUG]

Ok, what about a Ribcracker? 50% CB and all the other stuff. An upped eth would be, well, we all know the drill. No block though. I wouldn't try it in HC.

Two-handers used for BF have their damaged halved before the 3/4 penalty.

 

[fredsta54]

Yes, it would defintaly have to be a 1h wepn. The idea of using nats claw (itd, pretty high dmg, huge dmg to demons and undead, claw mastery, style) is appealing.

And what about an eth lacerator? No itd, but pretty high 1h dmg, but the main reason is the huge 33% ctc amp, which has a bigger radius than than on atmas, lasts longer, and the wepn also has a cool pmh.

Eth gimmershred looks to me like the coming of the messiah. About 1.5k elemental dmg (a lil less) and 300 max 1h dmg.

A setup i was thinking of: Nats claw, gore riders, atmas, guilliames, Fort (yeah right, for me duress at best) dual ravens, string, mana leach cb crafted gloves, standard rest of gear.

My chance for double dmg would be huge with claw mastery + large ds, crushing would be all good, ar would be boosted even higher with the mastery, and... built in itd. Jah is unaffordable to me on s3l.

nats claws avg dmg with claw mastery + the inherent 200% dmg to demons and undead, is pretty serious with amp, and i enjoy experimenting with it.

Anyone have a calc for avging ds and crit?









Fred