Commando Mancer Guide: Version 2.0


Diabloii.Net Member
Commando Mancer Guide: Version 2.0

Hello all! Some of you may have seen my old version and will like the new improvements.

Also, Dark Knight, if you would take down the old one and sticky this guide, that would be great!

And now... for you reading pleasure...

æææææ +The Commando-Mancer+ æææææ
This new version will include updated Gear, Strategy, and PvP, which I have found that the Commando-Mancer can be quite adept at.​

There was a Time when the Necro was just a bothersome lacky for the other classes, a Curse B*tch to say the least. Now that 1.10 is upon us, the Psn Necro, Bone Necro, and the even lowly Summoner are brought into full power. The Necro grows weary, though, of spamming spells or just standing there watching his minions go to work. He is ready. He lays down the wand that has molded to his hand and unsheathes a mighty weapon to now lead by example and take charge of his army. He shall become the Commando-Mancer!

The Commando-Mancer is 3 builds rolled into one and I shall briefly explain the 3 seperate parts:

The Summoner is a basic build. Your main skills revolve around the summoning tree, where you would max Raise Skeleton, Skeleton Mastery, and possibly mage (Personal preferance comes in here).

This is a very sparcely used Necro variant, but some are known to take this path. This is where a Necromancer acquires Melee gear and shoots for direct physical damage, with support spells such as Bone Armor/Wall/Prison and curses. Golems are used in this build as a meatwall. Psn Dagger is most likely maxed, but not for the Psn Damage. This will be touched on later.

This is an Item build new to 1.10. This is when you stack as many items on any necro type that give auras. With a Mercenary and Items these auras are attainable: Fanatascism, Thorns, Holy Freeze, Might( Act 2 merc) and more. Most of the time, this is a variant of the Summoner build, because skeletons stacked deep with these auras are a mean force of reckoning.

The Commando-Mancer is a compilation of these and I will now set into on how this build functions.

I. Skill point allocation
II. Stat point allocation
III. Gear
IV. Gameplay and tips
V. PvP Strategies
VI. Thanks to...

I. Skill Point Allocation

The Commando-Mancer uses his elite force of Himself and his subordinates, his skeletons, to mass the enemy and achieve victory. Here is the Skills you need to acquire and hone:

20 Skeleton Mastery
20 Raise Skeleton
20 Skeleton Mage *(1)
1 Revive *(2)
1 All Golelm Summons, Golem Mastery, and Summon Resist

Psn & Bone:
1 Teeth
1 Corpse Exlosion
1 Bone Armor *(3)
1 Bone Wall
5+ Psn Dagger *(4)

1 Decrep, Life Tap, Confuse + Pre-reqs

*1: It’s a personal prefrence to max these for most people. True they are weak to start out, but later on they can be an asset. Phys Immune monsters should not be a problem, though, do to Amplify Dmg (and Possibly Decrep) break a monster Phys Immune.

*2: Revives aren't the best any more. Some say go for them, but one point and some + skills should give you some if they are ever needed to be called into battle. Bad = 3 Minutes of life and they don't "Auto-Tele" or appear next to you as skeletons will. In Hell, you can use these more to your benefit by bring back hard hitting monsters.

*3: Some may find that more Bone Armor may be required to join the ranks, I shall leave this to your decision. My Commando has only 1 point in this skill and is doing fine currently.

*4: Psn Dagger is a known bug that has not been fixed. It has been around for a long time, so it is not frowned upon and is now seen as just part of the game. When Psn dagger is being used as your main attack (In the square by your Health Sphere), you will not get the Psn Damage bonus from the skill, but you will get the AR (Attack Rating) bonus free of charge! No use of mana either. So basically, free AR.

This skill allocation can be completed as early as lvl 73, though including the use of all skill Qs. 73 is rather easy to get to and leaves some more attainable points to the casual player to tweak the build as necessary. You will have + Skills for this build, so your skills will get a boost.

II. Stat Points

Strength: Always enough for highest req.

There is a new way to lose your items, and not by body popping. There are reported incedents where people grab their bodies, but are unable to pick up all their items due to not having enough base str. Then while this body is still on the ground, they die again. If these bodies are not collected, then loss of items can occur if you leave a game because only 1 Body can go with you. Also, more str is more damage!

Dexterity: Enough for base for weap and 75% Block

To block or not to block, that is the question. Get max block for this build or at least 50%. More dex= more AR= means you can hit stuff. Your % to block going up is just a sweet, sweet bonus. Though, just get max block with your chosen shield. Do not pass this exact amount at your current lvl for it will be wasted points. Just watch evertime you lvl. If it drops 1%, then add 1-2 pnts to get it back to 75% and rest to Vit.

Vitality: Everything else.

Life is Life

Energy: None, nada, NOOOOOO!!! The only time where mana is a problem is when your first summoning your army and their are 2 solutions:

Easy and quick.

III. Gear
I will offer from Cheap to the Best of the Beast... er best .


1)Beast Runeword weapon:
Great damage plus the king of Mods: Fanatascism! Helps you and your skeles. The repair bills for the dur dying quickly on runewords is kind of a downer, but just stock up some ort runes. 1 ort + Weap in Cube = Fixed! Use it till it breaks then clean it up and go on!
(Weapons of Preference: )
Caddy = Not the highest damage, but fast and has high Durablity (70). Very Rare, though.
Bezerker Axe = Best damage, but can't rival speed and 26 Dur. Pricey too.
Ettin Axe = Middle ground in Dmg and Speed, but 24 Dur. Easiest to find.
Warspike = Faster than Caddy with less damage. 26 Dur. Pricey as Zerker.

Even better is the ability to go Werebear, but this shall be noted more in Gameplay.
Beast is Highly suggested.

2)All other Runeword weapons. See this link:

2a) Passion
Good damage and speed. Has monster flee that is annoying, though. But, it does give you zeal and beserk, two great melee skills. Also, it has Heart of the Wolverine charges so this would be like a mini Beast.

2b) Crescent Moon
Damage, speed, Ignore Target Defense and the king of all on strike mods: Static.
Another good and cheap choide.

*Note* Doom Runeword is a bad choice. Holy Freeze = Shattered Corpses. I suggest if you want a doom, get polearm for your merc and don’t equip it until your army is at 100%

3)Baranar's Star
Cheap and good damage. Boost to ar is stellar and its got loads of Ias. Get this weapon if you can't get a runeword.

This can be more for a Psn Necro hybrid of this. It has good damage, speed, helps you hit, has slow, and many more mods. This is truly one weapon with no bad mods.

*Special* On Switch, I highly suggest Call to Arms. One Handed of any kind will help you and your skeletons survive.

There are some 1.10 weaps that are worth mentioning, but I will leave that to you to search through databases to find if there is something else you may want, but they are expensive so... a good Runeword or Baranar's are both fine choices.


Teleport, + skills, + Str, DR, + Life... and more! VERY GOOD ARMOR. Would be hard for me to choose whether to use Beast Weapon or this armor if I could only afford one. They both add a blend to this build. Try for one, if not...
*Note* Best Armor for PvP. More info on this is PvP Strategies.

Tried and true. Um'ed would prob be a good choice for this old school hit.

*Note* Valor is a worthy mention, but it too is expensive, and I really don't like it. Also, Chains of the Honor or Bramble get an honorable mentiong, but if you can afford these, MAKE AN ENIGMA!


Skills, life, mana, DR... just get one!

Dr and duel leech. Some cold damage as well.

Honorable mention would be a Rare circlet with Run/Walk, ED, Life, Mana, + to Necro and more, but that can be expensive as well and Shako still kicks the crap out of it.


1)There was a Tie here between Stormshield and Homun, but after testing, Homunculus comes out on top.

Stormshield requires too much dexterity for max block and Homun will add to you better than the mods of Storm. Now you may say that you wouldn’t have max Damage Reduc., but Max block with the res, skills, and such of homun will help more against the real enemy of a Commando: Spell Casters

2)Lidless wall
Not the greatest block, but throw and eld rune in it and that will help with block., but homunculus is about the same price, but this shield still has a use. Use this on switch with Call to Arms to help boost Battle Orders another Leve.


1)20% Ias/ Duel Leech/ Other mods gloves.
Good stuff right there. Crafted ones with crushing blow add for a nice tough.

Cheap, easy to get uniques.

3)Laying of the hands
20% ias and loads of damage for Demons (I.E. end bosses). Should have a pair of these handy.

The new unique Ogre Gauntlets get an honorable mention because of their +ed, but expensive.


1) War Travs
+ Dmg, Str and Vit... yeah good boots

2)Gore Riders
Deadly Stike and Crushing Blow... also nice boots.\

These boots can give the infamous +33 synergy boost to your Bone Armor and the str mods can help you. Also, what summoner doesn’t like +2 Skele. Mast?

4)Crafted Blood boots
If you need more life leech, and maybe some res, then shoot for some of these. You can make 'em too!

5)Aldurs Advance
+Life and Fast Run/Walk


Mana Leech, + Vit, more mana, and regenerate mana... The belt of choice for me!

2)String of ears
Life leech and Dr. Remember dr is capped at 50%, so don't go DR crazy!


Slot 1:
A MUST!!! You Must have this ring. Cannot be frozen plus dex and AR. Just get one!!!

Slot 2:
1) My new #1 Choice: Wisp Projector
Use this to summon one of the three Druid Sages. It costs about 2-3K for Oak Sage charge and about 5-6K for Heart of the Wolverine charge. This ring has many uses.

2) Duel leech ring.
Not just dupes anymore! These can be found now, as well. Very nice choice.

3)Bul Kathos Wedding band
+1 skills, life leech, and + Life. A good choice

More mana leech and stuff...

Plus to skill and Mana...

Duel leech, Bul Kathos, or even a crafted blood ring are still the best. You need some life leech, and rings are a good place to get some.


+ Skill, res and stats. If you need res, this is the ticket!

+1 Skill, Deadly Strike, Ias, light res.

3)Cats Eye
Dex, Ias, and run/walk

4)Crescent Moon
Duel leech basically


At least 4 Summoning charms, maybe more. Small res//life//damage are good to have. Just mix an match here where you need the most. Low dmg? Get max charms. Low life? +20 lifers are a nice touch. Res issues?
+X all small charms or just 10-11% of one type are nice.

Don’t forget that Lovely Annihilus!

40% Ed/15% Ias jewels are a nice touch for that added damage and speed, as well as Um runes for needed Res. in Hell. P Diamond in a shield such as Homun can be a good thing because it gives just a few points less of res all. Hel Rune in a Stormshield can reduce the amount of str. ( Hel SS I believe has 133 Str req.) 15% Ias Shaftstops are also in high supply, so that can be a great speed bonus too!

IV. Gameplay

Lvl 1-25

Get at least 5 points in Skele Mast. and then proceed on to max Raise Skele first. Try to get some of you support spells, but mainly curses for now. Other spells, such as CE and Golems will not take off really until + to Skills are acquired. Nothing like running around with a big 2 Handed sword too! Get to Baal by level 25 because...

Lvl 25-50

These levels can be gained quite quickly from normal Baal runs and this is when you get most of your gear. Raise Skele should be maxed at this point as well (lvl 50). You should be stomping in Norm and ready for Nm. (Note= Summoners, to me, seem a bit slow in beginning NM. Proceed on, the killing gets better as lvls are achieved)

Lvl 50-70

Power through Nm to get to Nm Baal runs! You should be getting the last touches of gear (Shako being a big one) and finishing off Skele Mastery and moving towards your next skill, be it Skele Mage or someother that you wish to branch off ( I still highly recommend Mage though!)

Lvl 70+

Enjoy the fruits of your labor. Slide some Mf gear on him such as a P topaz Shako, Skulders, Rhyme, or a nice +2 necro//MF ammy. You should be able to take Hell Mephy at a good lvl + Merc.
*Note* In Hell, it can be hard to get the skele summoning ball rolling, so it is suggested that you should make Skeles in Act 1 then proceed onto other acts if you are having difficulty.


Act 2 Might is the best for this build. You should either have fant or heart of the wolverine (or both) to help your skeletons hit. Here is the gear I would use on him for the situations of:

Shaft or Bramble
Crescent Moon weapon

Ber Gaze
Doom Polearm


If your using a Beast Weapon (Highly Recommended), then you will get the chance to morph into a Werebear. You get +3 Werebear and +3 Lycanthropy from the weapon and + All skills (such as found on Shako, Sojs, Maras, ect.) boost the lvl of these skills. Going Werebear means you cannot Cast any spells, but when times are rough and you need to kick into high gear, the damage, AR, and Life boosts are awesome.

V. PvP Strategies

This did not start out as a PvP build, but I have found that he can do well. I’ll give some outline of how to duel a bit. This is not your Clan Honor build, so Enigma is HIGHLY Suggested.

Oh, and if you get life tapped by anything non-caster... It’s done for the most part.


Foh- Teleport and stay stacked in one spot. I would choose to Amp because most will teleport and if you do score a hit, you want it to hurt. Don’t let your skeles scatter or holy bolts will scatter and smash them.

Zealot- teleport next to em, but let your skeles spread a bit and decrepify them. Life tap can help when you get low on life. Go bear for the kill.

Charger: Make sure they don’t click you. Decrep here is needed and teleport on them so they can’t get charge lock. Go Bear and hold down shift and wait for them to run into them works some, but still bill careful. Re-cast bone armor as needed.


Bow- Get in close, decrep, and they die. Nothing like Avoid, Dodge, and evade lock.

Javazon: These can hurt, ALOT!!! DO NOT STOP TELEPORTING. Decrep here and keep your necros stacked in one spot. The lightning fury will not be able to spread and they won’t be able to hurt you much.

*Note* Not many psn javas out there, but if you get poisoned, just stack on them and hope your skeles don’t kick it.
*2nd Note* lightning strike would spank you. Sorry, but hang it up here.


Amp all sorcs.

Fire- DO NOT TELEPORT. If you stack in one spot the radius from fireball will toast ALL of your skele. Use them as meatwalls, go bear and try to work in some hits.

Cold: NO GO.... glacial spike can actually freeze your skeletons solid which is a bummer. Also, Blizzard rips. A Frozen Orber can be beaten, but its hard.

Light: Not many out there, but chain lightning will shred you. Jump them before they Jump you.


Whirlwind: Never met one... When I do, I’ll let you guys know.

Trapper: Ugh... I Hate these things. Don’t teleport. Go bear and mob them with your skeletons. They can’t mind blast all 28-30 of yah. Amp or decrep... hard choice.

Kicker: Easy Pickings. They come to you and you swat em. Decrep them


Whirlwind: Iron maiden. Yes its cheap... but you have no way of combating these giants. Most will use Dracul’s Grasp and life tap = you lose for the most part.

Iron barbs: Decrep them and stack em deep. Go Bear and its a battle of the bulge here.

Warcry: Stun you skeles.... GAH! Go bear and smack them.

Thrower: They don’t stand a chance.


Any Werewolf or Bear minus a rabies build will get stomped . Rabies will chew your skeles so just get in there and hit em before you die.

Elementals: Wind = Shred and Fire = Pounded. Sorry guys. I usually only beat Elementalists on more luck then strategy.


Bone: You will own these. For some reason, though, the Bone spears won’t hit you if you are all stack on one spot. Its great.

Poison: Same with rabies druids, Just get in there and hit them while your skeletons last.

Summoners: Best fights. Just have fun. If you meet another Commando, though, pray it isn’t me! MWAHAHAHAHA!

VI. Shout outs!

Thanks to Beatboxer for originally giving me this idea that I flowed with.

Thanks to UltimaFury for reposting my guide so I could update it.

Thanks to MadMantis for support and great ideas.

Thanks to for helping me many times with items and more.

Thanks to the gang at RPG Forums #18 (the Necro Forum!) They helped me get back on track, and now I’m offering my two cents worth to help others!


Diabloii.Net Member
Ya this seem interesting, I mean I was a huge, huge meleemancer back in1.9. But now he doesnt stand a chance in hell. So maybe this build will take up for it. Tho alot of the items have changed. At least I still got my UM'd Homo, and ias/shaft, and ias/gaze from my current one.
I do love the idea of all the auras. Tho selling that wisp I found prob wasnt a good idea now. Nor was selling the cresentmoon yesterday..hmm ahh well, at least I got a direction for a new build.:)

I actually remember this build mentioned in the tail-end of 1.9, tho didnt seem to many were interested, but now I see its a sticky...alllright! Goodjob.
I used to be in this forums 90% of the time, but ever since 1.10 came, necro becasme the front seat instead of the underdog that I use to like. So I went towards barbs, who everyone said went wimpy, (which has been proved wrong now.:))...but this build is different, I havent seen it yet, which is why I''m so interested. But also, is the closest thing to a survivable meleemancer left.:)

Mad Mantis

D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator
CyberHawk said:
But also, is the closest thing to a survivable meleemancer left.
Now this intrigues me. In your post you express a desire to play the underdog. The Meleemancer according to you is not survivable, then why not try and make a good Meleemancer in 1.10? Personally I am working hard on it already. I figure if a naked Sorc can make it past the Countess and clear the Tamoe highland, surely a Meleemancer can kill Hell Baal?


Diabloii.Net Member
What is this

*4: Psn Dagger is a known bug that has not been fixed. It has been around for a long time, so it is not frowned upon and is now seen as just part of the game. When Psn dagger is being used as your main attack (In the square by your Health Sphere), you will not get the Psn Damage bonus from the skill, but you will get the AR (Attack Rating) bonus free of charge! No use of mana either. So basically, free AR.

What are you talking about, "will not get the Psn Damage bonus." Poison Dagger works just fine. Explain please.


Diabloii.Net Member
I didn't add that this is for any weapon that is melee (I'm not sure for bows, javelins, and other throwing items) that are not daggers.

If you use a dagger, then yes, you will get the Psn dmg and the +AR% bonus, but, if you use the attack with say a club, sword, axe, or any other type of melee weapon, you will only get the +AR% bonus.

I'm sorry if this was unclear.



Diabloii.Net Member
Mad Mantis said:
Now this intrigues me. In your post you express a desire to play the underdog. The Meleemancer according to you is not survivable, then why not try and make a good Meleemancer in 1.10? Personally I am working hard on it already. I figure if a naked Sorc can make it past the Countess and clear the Tamoe highland, surely a Meleemancer can kill Hell Baal?

I say that becasuse my 1.9 meleemancer was top notch, no doubt. When people think that you are hacked, and theres noway to tell them otherwise, becasue you can solo hell diablo np, and take the ancients with 2-3 other people in the game..thats the reason I say "survivable". Becasue I've tried him as of the past 2-3 days...and it aint happening anymore. I mean nowhere close. I'm lucky to even get to hell baal anymore.

And this build kbob has brought in, is the closest thing so far to a meleemancer, to what I use now. Thats why I like it. No I haven't came around to trying to "make" a new build for a meleemancer, I was working on builds others say dont cut anymore. Zerk barbs, Fire druids, etc. And have alrdy proved there strengths to many alrdy...esp a duelin' fire druid, man pk'ers hate him.:)

You musta picked thru the words wrongly, or I placed them wrong to get that impression that a meleemancer will never work....I'm the kind of person to prove the build, when others will take leave of it.

I've done it in 1.9, and I plan on it in 1.10...maybe even with the build you are in the making of......speaking of which, I am greatly interested in your ideas for a meleemancer, plz post what your thoughts are so far.


Diabloii.Net Member
MadMantis is currently working on a guide and prob a bit disgruntled in the fact that he is near completion, but needs my tweaker part of the guide. I don't really have time to make a whole new necro based on his specifications, but running with my Commando has given me ideas on wide varietes of possible gear. His is an untwinked guide, but he wants to please the mass society, so that's where I would come in.

I just wish I could see what he has so far (*hint* *hint* MM).

Mad is very fond his Meleemancers. He prob. misunderstood you.



Diabloii.Net Member
Well maybe he could do a Untwinked/Twinked in same

If poor, look for these/this=

If able, try to use these/this=

That should please the masses?

I think alot of the gear you mentioned alrdy will be the majority used. Esp the aura ideas..I still love that.

edit. What kind of AR are we talking about, on my 1.9 Necro I had like only 1600-2k, how good does that posindagger skill do? As in how about an average AR would be like?


Diabloii.Net Member
That is exaclty what the guide will be:

Untwinked = No items else where... poorest you can be.

Twinked = any where from having a few rares to having 50 runes on other chars that you can use to make your new char.

He has done the guide and the untwinked part. I will do the Twinked part and most of the gear will be more Commando Style, but with some changes. Like, say for a pure melee mancer, I would rely more on a dual leech ring then Wisp Projector because a spirit would die FAR to fast without your skeles.


Mad Mantis

D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator
CyberHawk said:
IYou musta picked thru the words wrongly, or I placed them wrong to get that impression that a meleemancer will never work
Your post did seem to indicate that it was impossible to make a succesfull Meleemancer. My 1.09 Meleemancer failed horribly in 1.10 but this new one is doing good. I am almost near Hell and the completion of my guide. When I finished Hell I'll post the guide. If only I had more time.

@Kbob, what do you need for the twinking in terms of the guide? It will still take me some time to finish Hell, so there is no real rush.


The kbob and Mad Mantis,

On the writing off a potential twinked section of a builde guide I would reccomend mentioning gear to help overcome the meleemancers close quarters fighting weaknesses and accentuating his strengths.

For instance, many that play know that necros have a pretty bad fast hit recovery rate so you'd want to outline the numbers and reccomend a short list of potential gear to help out in acheiving the breakpoints.

It would also be nice to mention how a necro is naturally faster with an axe, than he is with a sword.

I'm seeing twinking, now, just as as it sounds basically. Like twinking an engine, for performance, the specs need considering to identify just exactly how one could improve said engines performance with what mechanics.

You guys are probly aware of these things but lists are good.

My top Defensive, gear focused, concerns from my info and play:

-Some damage resist, if possible*
-High life*
-Efective meatsheild/s

-Fhr(fast hit recovery)*
-Fast block rate
-cast rate (applicable to bone armor)
-fast run walk
-elemental absorb if possible

The three astericked topics, I see as particularly important for a sturdy necro.

My top Offensive choice concerns:

-Attack rating
-Attack Speed

-Damage mods such as crushing blow, open wounds(ver good 1.10 mod), and deadly strike
-Cold damage for a little slow/chill
-Sows target by a percent
-Cast rate(in terms of curse casting)

All the breakpoints concerning all of the above issues should be known and listed to best twik a good mellee necro's gear, most practically.

My list might help ya focus you guys's twink list a bit, if not at least I entertained myself...I like making lists and explaining things to myself. :)

BTW Thekbob kickin' revision.:cool:

Mad Mantis

D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator
Thanks Beat. I was having trouble making a list. I would start with what mods I would like and then end up with almost all mods that exist. This helped to put things in perspective for me.


Diabloii.Net Member
Just wanted to ask again, with posin dagger skill used, (and NOT useing a dagger) what kinda of AR are we talking about here?
In 1.9 my necro, not using dagger skill, reached like 1300-2k AR, what are some numbers that 1.10 meleers reached, using the skill?


Well Cyberhawk, slvl 25 Dagger gives 510% Ar bonus...I think that's one of the highest of all skills in the game (dont quote me on that:) )

With out focusing on Ar too much I get in the 9-10k range too. The Ar wont display in the char screen but the % chance to hit will and the percentage stays consistent with or without a dagger weapon being used.:)


Diabloii.Net Member
sweet numbers on the AR you 2. But how can I figure my AR when I cant see it in the AR box. Do you figure it by %x weapon, while not using the dagger skill. Or is their another rocket scientist math problem I can confuse myself with.

Also, I read somewhere in here about how axes+necro seem to swing faster? If so, I thought about razors edge, maybe socket it with more ias than it alrdy has. Think it will do?


No prob Hawk.:) Unfortuneately I don't know the percentage to hit formula but soon I will.

In this situation to figure out the exact percentage you'd need to use the formula. But, basically, you don't really even need to know. The hover tells you your chance to hit and the actual numbers won't vary too much using non-dagger weapons from what I know. Even Attack rating bonuses on weapons should add up to add to percentage to hit.

Razor's edge edge huh...I need to check that out I forgot it's bonuses but ya it probrably should work. I made a Beast Champion Axe on single play forever ago and I can't imagine a more powerful necro melee weapon. (not neccesarily completely safe but ya..:) )

Mad Mantis

D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator
Chance to hit = AR ÷ (AR + DR) × 2 × clvl ÷ ( clvl + mlvl) × 100

AR = your attack rating
DR = monster defense rating. It's about 2000 to 2500 in hell and with -75% it will be 500 to 625.
clvl = your level
mlvl = the monster level (levels in hell range from 75 to 90+)

Axes seem to be better on a Necro. It also looks pretty. Personally I use either a Scythe or an Axe. Not only for the speed, but also the looks.