Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Zaliqai

Diabloii.Net Member
Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Hi all,

I've decided to try my hand at some HF rushing in Classic 1.09 because I feel it's the only way in which I will ever be able to get my hands on some high runes. I've searched around and read lots of info about Classic, 1.09 and HF rushing but I still have some questions so I'm hoping some of you who have experience with Classis 1.09 HF rushing will be able to help me out.

1. Which 1.09 version do I need? There are 3 versions available at Blizzard, 1.09, 1.09b and 1.09d. Does it even make much of a difference which version I use for HF rushing? And do I need to install the previous patches first or can I just patch my 1.00 version with a single 1.09 patch?

2. I still know very little about Classic 1.09 so I'm still not sure what build to go with. I'm thinking about going with a 20/20 forb/nova or 20/20 forb/fball with 1 in preqs, warmth, CM and FM and eventually 20 in Teleport. A sorc like that should be good enoough at MF as well to get me the gear I need. Any suggestions/input from other Classic 1.09 HF rushers appreciated.

3. What player settings should I use while lvling? Apparently 1.09 support up to 64 players so there are more options.

I'll probably be back another time with rushing specific questions but knowing which patch and build to go with should be enough to get me started. And if anyone feels like MP in 1.09, let me know here or PM me because I'd love a bit of company. :grin:

Thanks,
Zaliqai
 

Denton

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

1. Which 1.09 version do I need? There are 3 versions available at Blizzard, 1.09, 1.09b and 1.09d. Does it even make much of a difference which version I use for HF rushing? And do I need to install the previous patches first or can I just patch my 1.00 version with a single 1.09 patch?

2. I still know very little about Classic 1.09 so I'm still not sure what build to go with. I'm thinking about going with a 20/20 forb/nova or 20/20 forb/fball with 1 in preqs, warmth, CM and FM and eventually 20 in Teleport. A sorc like that should be good enoough at MF as well to get me the gear I need. Any suggestions/input from other Classic 1.09 HF rushers appreciated.

3. What player settings should I use while lvling? Apparently 1.09 support up to 64 players so there are more options.
1. 1.09b (second latest 1.09 version) would be the best choice. In it players setting higher than 8, up to 64 works, and Chance to Cast works. In 1.09d (which is the latest, last 1.09 version), the players setting is limited to 8, and Chance to Cast property does not work; it shows the animation of the skill cast, but it does not have an effect on anything (no damage or freezing or anything). Although a good point of that is that the CtC Teleport on Oculus doesn't work either, which usually would be considered as a relieve.


2. I have no experience myself with Classic at all, and have only read about it a little, so better to wait/look for a better answer for this one. But I'll still mention what I remember. Static Field has no limit on Nightmare/Hell difficulties, meaning, that Static can be used to cut the monsters' life eventually down to 1 life. So investing more than 1 point into Static is definitely worth it. FOrb/Static build should work well. Maybe throw in Firewall to deal with immunes. But again, it would be better to either confirm this from some reliable source(s), or wait for someone with more knowledge about classic to comment or confirm this.


3. As high as possible, so players 64 would be optimum, because of the effectiveness of Static Field; it works at the same percentages irregardless the monstes' amount of hitpoints, which means slivering a p1 monster down to 1 life with Static takes just as long as a p64 one does.

And I'm pretty sure that there is no limits or anything wrong with the higher experience gained via higher players settings, so the higher the better. But I'm not 100% sure of this one either, so someone's confirmation would be in place.


P.S. Out of the versions before 1.10 and later, I have mostly only played 1.09d Expansion (not Classic). I regret that I chose d instead of b, but oh well, it still works. Items between b and d are interchangeable, there are no difference between b and d ones (ATMA does not make a difference between them), but I don't want to change backwards into b because of an ethical reason.



 

Denton

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

[offtopic](Slight correction for my post before this one: relieve -> relief)[/offtopic]
2. I have no experience myself with Classic at all, and have only read about it a little, so better to wait/look for a better answer for this one. But I'll still mention what I remember. Static Field has no limit on Nightmare/Hell difficulties, meaning, that Static can be used to cut the monsters' life eventually down to 1 life. So investing more than 1 point into Static is definitely worth it. FOrb/Static build should work well. Maybe throw in Firewall to deal with immunes. But again, it would be better to either confirm this from some reliable source(s), or wait for someone with more knowledge about classic to comment or confirm this.
I just realized, that I'm really not sure at all if the Static Field is uncapped at Nightmare and Hell difficulties in version 1.09 Classic... I am only 100% certain that in some version it is uncapped, but I cannot remember in which one/ones... I'm sorry for posting possible misinformation.



 

purplelocust

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Static Field in Classic goes to 1% in all versions on Norm/NM/Hell. This includes 1.10 and the current version of Classic 1.11b. So FO/Static is great for bosses and cows, which are a good way of leveling in 1.09 for example.

As far as rushing for forge drops, 1.09 is preferred because it doesn't have the anti-rush TP blocks that 1.10+ has. And Classic is preferred because it doesn't have the level requirements for the Ancients Quests. So I know that people who rush in 1.09 LoD to avoid the rush/Ancients limitations, and in Classic 1.11 to avoid the level req for the Ancients level requirements, but I'm not sure of the point of doing rushes in 1.09 Classic. But I am no expert! I would look for advice from people who do a lot of forge rushing to figure out the best methods.
 

Zaliqai

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Thanks for the info Denton. I'll try 1.09b first then and test whether the /p64 setting works. With Static working as it does in 1.09 it may be worth playing at those settings when running something like a boss for items and experience. I will probably keep Static at 1 though, since this is going to be a pure rusher and will be Teleporting through everything except quest monsters that have to be killed. Which is also why I want Teleport at 20 so I won't need as many if any pots.

Thanks for the additional info purplelocust. While a high Static may help leveling, most of my time will be spent rushing. I just want to get to Hell Meph, farm him for items and experience, finish Hell and then start rushing. 1 in Static should be enough for this. I'm pretty sure I'll go with Fireball. Once Forb/Fball/Tele are at 20 I can always start pumping Static then.

Actually, now that I'm writing this I'm starting to think that Static would be the way to go...Oh well, I still have time to decide. :smiley:

The reason I think people rush in Classic 1.09 is because there is no Act5 in Classic and because there is no lvl req to enter NM and Hell in 1.09. Though I'm not sure if there is a lvl req in Classic 1.10/1.11. :scratch: I still need some more info. Hopefully an actual rusher will be able to confirm and/or make suggestions.
 

colony

Diabloii.Net Member
I did mine in 1.09 LoD and IMO having access to better items makes up for having to do Baal (as I never played Classin in 1.09 the rest of this post is about LoD, but most is applicable to both). Tele'ing to the throne and killing the minions only adds a few minutes per difficulty as you don't need to do the Ancients. Orb kills everything that isn't CI quickly without Static, so the 50% cap in Hell isn't too bad. Hell Duriel and NM Chaos will be the hardest parts to get done, a Kelpie Snare and a decent merc setup helps a lot with Duriel if you can get one, as does max block.

If you want to go with cold/fire then I'd use Fire Wall over FB, harder to aim but does more damage. I used Nova/Orb, but Nova takes loads of mana though it does do a lot of damage, useful for spamming between Orb casts.

Also, pick up multiple staff pieces in normal and mule them off before going to act 3 to save time, so you only have to actually get the staff pieces once every 2 sets of characters. With practice you can get very fast rushing times in LoD (mine were about 50-60 minutes eventually, but it took a long time to reach that speed)
 

Zaliqai

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Thanks for the info colony. I'm going to stick with Classic 1.09 though since it's completely different from LoD 1.11 which is all I'm used to. Should be an interesting experience. :smiley:

I did decide to go with FW though. I just turned lvl 18 so I finally have it and it has definitely given me better killing speed (I was tanking and fighting alongside my useless merc with the occasional Static thrown in against mobs). I'm going to keep FW at 1 for now and start pumping Teleport until I get FO. I have already pumped Static to 10 and will probably do the same with FW. I may be spreading my points a bit thin since I want FO and TP at 20 first. The biggest problem I have now is mana, especially since I haven't been able to find a single merchant that sells mana pots :shocked:! Is this normal in Classic and/or 1.09?

Thanks for the link Thyiad and for letting me know which ATMA file held my gold (this was about a month ago in the ATMA/Flavie thread, sorry about the late thanks :embarassed:). I had read Ragnarod's rushing guide which should serve as my rushing bible once I actually get to the point that I can rush. I also checked out the Classic Forum but most of the info there is geared towards BNET 1.10/1.11 so I'm hoping to get some specific SP Classic 1.09 questions answered here.
 

Hoop76

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

im pretty sure pre 1.10 nobody sold mana pots, but i know there was a Full Rejuv trick, but dont know what version
 

Eric Xanthu

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Full Rejuv trick was 1.07. 1.09 lack of blue pots is annoying at the low levels but becomes trivial as you build up a high mana pool and start taking on champion packs more often.

I would plug my personal fav build here: ES meteorb. There's a guide somewhere around here for a version of that build called the "damage reduction sorcererss." The only gear you absolutely have to have to make the build work is damage to mana. If you have a set of sorc-standard gear, you can make a behemoth.
 

Zaliqai

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

im pretty sure pre 1.10 nobody sold mana pots,
It certainly seems you're right. I just entered NM and Akara still doesn't sell mana pots. It's even worse though since she only sells minor (useless) healing potions.

The River of Flame in Normal was a nightmare. I saw maybe 5 mana pots drop at the most. I basically had to make a TP to the Fortress after every fight to get Jamella to replenish my mana. The CS dropped a couple more mana pots so it turned out to be easier than the RoF, though regular TPs to Jamella were still required.

[rant]What bugs me the most is that I can't figure out why anyone would ever make a game where just about every skill requires mana and then not supply the player with some sort of reasonably steady renewable source of it. Even if the merchants sold mana pots it would have meant regular trips to town, now it's just nuts! And then to make it to NM and find out that not only are there still no mana pots but the best you can buy are minor (useless) healing potions...? Nuts![/end rant]

Full Rejuv trick was 1.07. 1.09 lack of blue pots is annoying at the low levels but becomes trivial as you build up a high mana pool and start taking on champion packs more often.
I sure hope the lack of blue pots becomes trivial :). I am gaining mana with every lvl but every skill I use costs more mana with every skill point invested. But it's still early days so I will trust your experience :).

I would plug my personal fav build here: ES meteorb. There's a guide somewhere around here for a version of that build called the "damage reduction sorcererss." The only gear you absolutely have to have to make the build work is damage to mana. If you have a set of sorc-standard gear, you can make a behemoth.
Unfortunately I don't have any standard sorc gear being untwinked. But having a behemoth sounds good :). I will keep a lookout for damage to mana items and will also do a search for that build you mentioned.

I liked the damage on Firewall though I didn't like the fact that at times (regularly) it can be hard to aim properly. So I made a new Nova/FO sorc. I don't have FO yet but so far Nova has been working nicely at the earlier lvls.



 

Saint Anger

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

I've been contemplating HF rushing in classic 1.09 myself, and seeing this thread is up already I figured I'd ask my questions in here instead of cluttering up the board with a new one (hope you don't mind, Zaliqai :tongue:).

I did read up on the info for 1.09 HF rushing, but there's a single thing that's not entirely clear to me. How exactly does one go about patching the game to 1.09? Apologies if there is an obvious answer, but I'd hate to do anything that screws up my current game, so I figured I'd ask first.

At first thought it seems fairly logical that one would require two installs of diablo: one for 1.11 and a second one for 1.09, yet I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere; and with the 'fast user switching' and 'modified dll' file apparently requiring only a single install of d2 it has become somewhat confusing to me :embarassed:.

Kind regards,

St. Anger
 
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Drystan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Saint Anger said:
How exactly does one go about patching the game to 1.09?
Firstly, there is a 'patch' somewhere that allows you a single install, but can change the current patch version, thus only requiring a single install that can change between versions.

The other way is to rename the current D2 folder as "Diablo II 1.11." Then install another copy as "Diablo II 1.09." I think that would keep separate save folders, but you should double check to make sure.
Then link a shortcut to each install and name appropriately.

Since you haven't really posed a question for the second part, I'll answer briefly. Fast-user switching is setting up a second user account (+more) to switch to. You then load up D2 in each 'user', and switch user whenever required to move the rushee character around. (Works on WinXP, I don't know about other versions/systems.)
The modified dll allows more than one copy of Diablo to run on the same user, without swapping users. It's just a replacement .dll file that is copied over a current one.
 

Saint Anger

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Thanks for the swift answer Drystan :smiley:. Is the use of this 'patch' to switch between different versions with a single install accepted, or is its use frowned upon? Right now it would be more convenient for me to use such a patch, since I currently don't have my classic cd's with me and it would be somewhat of a pain to have to go and fetch them a province away right now. Of course, if the use of this 'patch' is unacceptible I'll just have to wait.

I read up before posting, so I knew the reasoning behind 'fast user switching' and the 'modified dll', it just wasn't entirely clear how one could go about playing with two different versions (1.11 and 1.09) while apparently only needing a single installation.

Kind regards,

St. Anger
 

Saint Anger

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Apologies for the shameless bump, but how are you doing so far Zaliqai?

I've just finished normal, and I'm wondering if it's worth it going for 20 warmth (for comparison: instead of the 20 teleport you're aiming for). I can only cast five nova's before having to go to town to replenish mana (mana pots notwithstanding), so that's not really very effective for going into nightmare.

The net effect of maxing warmth instead of teleport might be somewhat comparable: increasing teleport reduces mana cost, whereas maxing warmth instead increases mana regen rate, thus also allowing for more spells to be cast faster. This might especially be beneficial for the mana-intensive lightning spells. On the other hand, I have no idea just how fast 20 warmth regenerates mana... If it's not as fast as I'm imagining it, it might not be worth it at all.

I'm currently doing cow runs to gain levels, and in the hope of obtaining socketables, flawless skulls and sapphires to help my struggling mana pool.

Right now my sorc is level 24 with the following stats:
50 str
25 dex (base)
50 vit
60 energy

I'm alternating points between vit and energy right now.

skills:
1 frost nova (prereq for frozen orb)
1 static field
1 teleport
12 nova
1 warmth

My projected skills

Cold
  • 5 prereqs
  • 20 frozen orb
  • 1 cold mastery
Lightning
  • 20 nova
  • 20 lightning mastery
  • 1 static field
  • 1 telekinesis
  • 1 teleport
Fire
  • 20 warmth

Kind regards,

St. Anger
 

colony

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Warmth will help a bit with the mana problems, more than 1 point in CM isn't necessary anyway, so it's a choice between max'ing Static, Tele and Warmth, or using ES if you've planned for it. Static can get a decent radius from just +skills, but with Nova you always want more mana, so I'd max Warmth if Nova's still causing problems later, but Tele will take most of your mana while rushing, and a 1 mana tele reduces mana consumption a lot more that max Warmth. Try gambling some rings with +mana, I'm not sure if the affix levels are different in Classic, or if the top ones are available (Great Wyrm's and Bahamut's) though. Frostburn's aren't too hard to find and will also help a lot. Orb will kill everything quickly once you reach 30, and with the timer on it won't cause nearly as many mana problems as Nova.

The best thing to do is probably level to 30 and then get to NM Meph and run him for a few useful items, like Frosties, Silks of the Victor, Spectral Shard etc. IIRC Arcanna's set has some useful mods, but the amulet can be hard to find. As for getting to 30, normal Sapphires add a decent amount of mana, and a 1 point Blizzard should be alright for killing, though not particularly fast.
 

Zaliqai

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Apologies for the shameless bump, but how are you doing so far Zaliqai?
I'm not doing too bad thanks :). I've been working excusively on my nova/orb rusher. She killed Hell Diablo today and is now running NM Meph for items and NM Cows @p8 for experience.

Lvl 60
Str: 18 (54 w/items)
Dex: base
Vit: all the rest
Ene: base
45 points left

Skills:
5 Static Field
20 Nova
1 LM
15 Teleport
1 TK (preq)

3 Warmth

20 Frozen Orb
1 CM
5 preqs

My build is exclusively geared towards rushing. I'm anything but an expert though so I don't know how good she will be since I haven't rushed yet.

If I could I would have changed a couple of things (less Static and Nova) so I could have pumped Teleport earlier. But with a couple of more Cow runs I'll have Teleport maxed and then if Meph drops the right items for me I'll be ready to rush.

@Saint Anger: Don't put any more points into Str, Dex and Energy. Put them into Vit. Also don't put any more points into LM and Warmth (except 1 in each). You may be having the blues now but you're not just making a build that can beat Hell. You're making a buld that can rush so a couple of hours extra now can save you many hours rushing.

It's late here and I've spent a couple of hours getting through Hell (including beating a CI/LI Lord De Seis). I'll give more info on my experience tomorrow.



 

Drystan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

Thanks for the swift answer Drystan :smiley:. Is the use of this 'patch' to switch between different versions with a single install accepted, or is its use frowned upon? Right now it would be more convenient for me to use such a patch, since I currently don't have my classic cd's with me and it would be somewhat of a pain to have to go and fetch them a province away right now. Of course, if the use of this 'patch' is unacceptible I'll just have to wait.
I don't think this has been answered yet, so I'll jump in again. :) I am pretty sure the patch (Trenshadow's Version Swithcer) is allowed, as it is in the SPF Files and Utilities here, and is hosted my Dii.net.



 

Zaliqai

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

The reasoning behind 20 Teleport is that I figure it will be the most used skill. The only monsters you have to kill in Acts 1, 2 and 3 are Andy, Duriel and Meph. You only have to get there and the obvious quickest way will be to Teleport there. If you have lvl 1 Teleport every TP will cost you 24 mana, so you will need to chug a super mana pot every 8!!! TPs. If you have lvl 20 Teleport every TP only costs 5 mana, which means 40 TPs before needing a mana pot. Lots of points in Warmth will never make up for using up +/- 50 mana every second while quickly TPing. If it were possible to buy mana pots less points in Teleport may be viable but for quick rushing I'm thinking 20 Teleport is a must and Warmth won't help.

Your projected skills add up to 89 skill points total so with the Den, Radament and Izual skill points you'll finish at lvl 77 (if I'm adding things correctly that is). I don't know how easy/hard it will be to get to that lvl in Classic 1.09 but that will take some time. I suggest putting points into LM last if at all. I found Nova a very weak skill in Hell. I used it only when I absolutely had to. More points in LM could have made my trip through Hell quicker, but it also would have meant more time spent now to lvl up for the needed skill points in Teleport. Now that I've made it through Hell the only thing I will use Nova for is taking down Duriel after I've slivered him down using Static. I don't think using 40 skill points on a skill that in the end will only be used to kill Duriel is worth it. (I forgot NM Lord de Seis and minions, IIRC they're CI, still not worth 40 skill points though imo)

I didn't know what kind of gear I would be using when I started this project since I had none so I kept my str, dex and ene at base for as long as possible. Energy will stay base, I prefer the vit. What I'm hoping to find is a Spectral Shard and either Magefist or 2 FCR rings. That will get me to the 70 FCR breakpoint for quick Teleports through everything. Spectral requires 35 str and 51 dex and Magefist 45 str. If I can't find these items I'm hoping to trade for them. I have 45 points saved up so I can pump str and dex if it becomes necesarry. I'm running NM Meph at p16 atm hoping to find those items. I lvled up with those settings last night (gained about half a lvl). I'm going to run NM Meph again for another lvl and if I haven't found a Spectral in that time I'll try and trade for it.

If I redid my sorc I probably would have gone with less Static and Warmth. Warmth is not going to help during TPing. Static helped in the earlier lvls and may be useful against de Seis but 5 points probably wasn't necesarry. But maxing Teleport won't be too difficult so I'm happy with my build.

Keep Cow running until you hit lvl 30 and make sure you have some points saved up to put into LM, CM and Orb. Since you're still in Normal you probably aren't finding a lot of mana pots yet. Fortunately I immediately noticed that things start to look up in that respect once you enter NM. You will run into more boss and champion packs and they'll regularly start to drop mana pots. That was a huge relief :grin:! I was even able to start muling them off to my stash at times so once you hit NM you should have less problems with mana. I used Nova and Orb alternately at the beginning of NM. Against some monsters Nova was better, against others Orb. Orb quickly started winning though and as long as the mana pots kept dropping NM was a (relative) breeze.

EDIT: I have found 2 Frostburns from NM Meph and don't need either of them atm and probably won't need them at all. If you are interested in one of them just PM me your email and I'll send one over.
 

Eric Xanthu

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Classic 1.09 HF rushing questions

This is one reason among others to build around Energy Shield. I have over 1000 mana for absorbing damage, but with the nice side-effect that a mid-level teleport can't possibly hurt my mana pool. 1.09 builds are more likely to use energy than 1.11, which I like as a change of pace.

If you do go for a trimmed down, vit-oriented build, then I think a higher level teleport is a nice idea.
 
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