Class idea: The Mentalist

[Technomancer]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Hey, that's infringement on technomancer's spell!

In my own game world that I've been working on, this Backstab is almost EXACTLY what all my tele skills were based on!! Touche!! I didn't go there cause Diablo doesn't have a history of determining facing and shield locations, this would be cool if they did.

The name could use some work, but the idea is really cool and out of the box! You could go all D&D and call it a 'Psionicist', but there are probably other usable names as well.

 

[lunarleif]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Which came first, yours or his teleport skill?

 

[Technomancer]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

What I meant was I had made a skill almost exactly like that, prolly 2 years ago, and that is where I got my ideals on my D3 class skills. As far as who's first, I guess I posted my class first, but to me it's completely irrelevant. Anyone who wants to play off my ideas are more than welcome and it may well be complete coincidence. I've done stuff, and I'm sure I will continue to do stuff, that is knowingly and unknowingly similar to prior ideas.

 

[CCCenturion]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

This class name sounds mental, sorry, just had to say it.

I knew it was only a matter of time before the flamers arrived, but I appreciate constructive criticism, so I'll pretend your post was given in that spirit, and address your concerns.

Telekineses may be off limits since the wizard is drawing from the sorcerer.

You're forgetting the part where this class isn't actually going to appear in the game. But if it were, then you just give it a different name, make it function a bit differently, and problem solved.

Furthermore, having the name of the class tree be the same as one of the spells is a :nono:.

So you change the name.

Disarm might be out as its use is mainly pvp, since Siegebreaker Assault Beast, scavenger, dune thresher, unburied, fallen hounds, gnarled walker, and others don't have "weapons" to be disarmed.

Agreed. So I'll replace it with "Dull Weapons" (needs better name), in which the Mentalist twists his enemies' swords, etc., like bending spoons with his mind. Same effect for gameplay though; causes melee attacks to do less damage.

Constrict's freeing mechanism makes no sense, you're using your mind to sense things and constrict them, so you could tell if they were trying to use a weapon and move your mental constriction accordingly so as to avoid it.

You're assuming that using telekinetic powers requires the same amount of effort whether the target is resisting or not. Are you arguing this from personal experience?

Return projectiles, the wizard already has that.

Haven't read the wizard page since back when the class was first announced, and it wasn't very well developed. But thanks for bringing that to my attention.

"Rei Ginsei", makes little sense because, well the character is mental. How does he have the ability to warp space?

The point of the character is that the physical world is just an illusion, and he experiences reality on a higher, more abstract level. Manipulating space and matter are the same to him.

Telepathy is tela pathetic name.

Aww, now that just wasn't very nice.

Hallucinate, witch doctor has that.

Again, so you call it something else, and make it function a bit differently.

What happens when levitate ends?

Is this a trick question? You come back down to the ground. I'm assuming you mean, what if you're levitating over water, or over empty space. In D2, barbarians couldn't leap over anything if they couldn't make it to the other side. So you do the same thing here.

Etheralize should be a witch doctor spell, and does that have anything to do with the mind?

Again, you're misunderstanding the mechanism that the Mentalist's skills are based on. Go watch The Matrix again. Like the little boy says, "There is no spoon." He wasn't really psychic, he just knew that the physical world wasn't really there. That's basically the idea behind this class.

Mind control brings them closer. How does that work? Needs better name.

I think you should re-read the Mind Control skill that I posted. You cast it on an enemy, and he starts fighting on your side (for a while). I never said anything about mind control bringing them closer.

Guided missile sounds appropriate.

Thank you.

Retrieve missiles just sounds lazy. Also, missiles generally don't cost much.

I suggest trying to build a throwbarb in D2 and see how fast you run out of knives, even self-replenishing ones.

Hey, that's infringement on technomancer's spell!

Actually, it's basically just the Dragon Flight skill from D2.

Flying simitar, yawn. That's not very Diabloish, nor mental skill.

I'm starting to think you've never actually played Diablo 2. Flying Scimitars have already been used in Diablo games, and I don't see how controlling a flying sword with your mind is not a mental skill. This skill is basically just a precursor to Blade Storm.

Strafe, can't you already do that, and that's a very unfair advantage.

If you mean the Strafe skill from D2, this is different. Attacking while moving is a good idea, period. If it's an unfair advantage, then nerf it a bit.

Colossus makes no mental sense whatever.

The phrase "mental sense" makes no sense whatsoever. But I already decided to drop Colossus in an earlier post; I just haven't revised my original post yet. I still think it's a cool skill, but it doesn't fit in here.

 

[Technomancer]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

You mentioned a force field type effect earlier, you could have a passive skill that has a chance to knock an enemy back, maybe quite far, whenever they attack. Could call it Repulsion or something like that.

To borrow more from D&D, you could rename your Telekinesis tree to Psychokinesis... I can't believe that psychokinesis is actually in the Firefox spelling dictionary...

And just ignore lunarleif on the flying sabres thing, he's been screwing with me over that. I think it's totally Diablo and I think weapons flying around attacking stuff is AWESOME!!!

This is a really original class idea! I think it would be cool if he was actually blind, not just blindfolded. Where he's going, he won't need eyes to see!

 

[CCCenturion]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

I think it would be cool if he was actually blind, not just blindfolded. Where he's going, he won't need eyes to see!

Yeah, I need to go through my notes from when I was brainstorming the class, and then beef up the Lore section of my OP. I had been thinking that the novice Mentalists would wear blindfolds to train themselves to "see" without seeing, but as their training progressed, there would be some sort of rite of passage where they voluntarily give up their sight, as a sign of how far their powers had progressed.

And by "voluntarily give up their sight," of course, I'm hinting at some type of procedure that sure wouldn't be fun to watch.


I think my original post is in need of an overhaul. I need to collect some of the good ideas people have been giving me, mix them in with what I have so far, reorganize the skill trees, and come up with new names for some skills. And like I said, I also want to add to the Lore section, and include a section where I talk about the inspirations and motivations I had to make this class, to help people have a better idea of where I'm coming from. Some of lunarleif's confusions made me realize that I perhaps could have been clearer in explaining how the Mentalist's powers work.

 

[lunarleif]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Sorry, I thought you meant attract as a verb, not a skill. Made sadder by the fact that I was a necromancer in Diablo 2.
Also, the change name, tweak effects, were you going to do those anyway? If so, I apologize for that.
With constrict maybe it costs more mana if they try to hit it rather than give up on the spell in its entirety?
Alright, if he can manipulate time and space, why haven't we seen more of it? Besides etheralize, backstab, Rei Ginsei, ect. Like actual really **** cool stuff like the wizards time bubble? Not that the already existing stuff isn't nice :thumbup:
As you said, I just used telepathy insult to say that as you said, it wasn't a very good name. Maybe mental awareness?
Mental sense means that the mind can make no sense of it. So basically, it was the colossus makes no sense to my mind. But it still founds awesome!

 

[CCCenturion]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Keep in mind, everything I've posted so far is still a work in progress. I still only have around 20 skills posted. So of course I'm willing to be flexible with all the skills and lore ideas I've put up so far.

Your idea for how Constrict works makes sense, although I can't imagine anyone being stuck in that spell and not wanting to struggle, if that's the only way to get out. Maybe it would cost more mana against stronger enemies?

We haven't seen more manipulating of time and space because I haven't had time to brainstorm more ideas. I'm in the process of studying for qualifying exams next month that determine whether I stay in my PhD program or they send me off with a Master's, so I really don't have much spare time. Plus, I started putting together a guide for the D2 Barbarian forum, so I've kept my Mentalist ideas on the back burner for the last week or so.

Telepathy isn't a good name for the skill, I agree. I should probably just stick with Infravision, like it was called in the original Diablo.

And with the "mental sense" thing, I was just pointing out that people usually just say something "makes no sense".

But thanks for posting with good manners this time, it contributes a lot more to the discussion.

 

[lunarleif]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Originally Posted by lunarleif
Strafe, can't you already do that, and that's a very unfair advantage.

If you mean the Strafe skill from D2, this is different. Attacking while moving is a good idea, period. If it's an unfair advantage, then nerf it a bit.

Heck, even nerfed, all I'd do is run. They teleport, time to run a different direction! Meanwhile, I'd just use guided missile. Any attempt to disrupt chance to hit would be destroyed by the guided factor. Will you please reconsider the skill? In order to get my missiles back, use retrieve missiles. Damage nerf would mean you'd just have to keep it up longer.

 

[Technomancer]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Are they even going to have ammunition in D3? I'm under the impression they're doing away with that, or at least considering it.

I think Strafe is a cool idea. To nerf it, you could make it to where it automatically fires at the nearest target and make it un-Guidable.

 

[Summoned]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

You know, a lot of those skills sound almost exactly like what I had in mind for my fake class. Coincidence galore aside, I think it may be because things like Mind Control and becoming non-physical just sound cool on paper.

Going to post it in a sec, just don't kill me for making Mental Disciplines a skill tree when it's a whole class for you.

 

[CCCenturion]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Heck, even nerfed, all I'd do is run. They teleport, time to run a different direction! Meanwhile, I'd just use guided missile. Any attempt to disrupt chance to hit would be destroyed by the guided factor. Will you please reconsider the skill? In order to get my missiles back, use retrieve missiles. Damage nerf would mean you'd just have to keep it up longer.

I don't really know what you're hoping for from me here. All I put in the skill description for Strafe was that "the Mentalist throws knives or shoots missiles while running." I can't say I was very specific about how it works, and I never said anything about the Strafe attack being guided; Guided Missile is a separate skill. I don't think there's any reason to complain about mechanics that haven't been determined yet.

But if you have suggestions for how this skill should work, I'd love to hear them. Everything about this class is still up in the air.

 

[lunarleif]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Hm. Is strafe a skill that shoots projectiles in or itself or is it more passive? It's still way to spammable. Although a high mana cost, cool down, or duration could potentially fix all of that. What I meant by the previous post was that if strafe was a active that allowed you to shoot while moving, you could use guided missile.

 

[CCCenturion]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Oh I get it now.

No, I had intended for Strafe to be an active skill, so it wouldn't work together with Guided Missile. Basically, what I had been visualizing would be for the character to dash for a short distance (longer if you hold down the mouse key, like with the Paladin's Charge skill), and just throw knives out in either direction--wherever monsters are--as he's running. It probably wouldn't be a very powerful attack, but enough to do a little damage and more importantly put the enemies on the defensive (or in hit recovery) as you're moving from point A to point B.

I guess, maybe it would look like a cross between Charge and Frozen Orb--the character charges from point A to point B, throwing off a volley of knives, like the ice shards in FO, but without the powerful hit or exploding ice ball at the end of the attack. So you would target a spot on the ground, not an enemy, right click, and dash there, sending out a barrage of projectiles. Again, not a super powerful attack, like FO can be, but one that can help you move around a little more safely.

There is room for abuse here if you don't add any costs to using the skill; after all, if you just strafe around in circles forever, eventually you'd be able to do enough damage to kill the big guys too, so there would have to be some sort of cost to using it. Some possibilities (off the top of my head):
- high mana cost,
- high stamina cost (if they're still using stamina in D3),
- a big defensive penalty while using the skill,
- a big defensive penalty after using the skill (like Berserk),
- a cooldown period.

One way to enforce the cooldown period for this and a lot of other skills is by having them use up a lot of ammunition, requiring you to stop and cast Retrieve Missiles; but as Technomancer pointed out, we don't know for sure if there will be ammunition limits in D3. I know you're not crazy about the Retrieve Missiles skill, but if there are ammo limits in D3, then that's a skill that would be extremely useful, even if it doesn't sound very sexy.

I have mixed feelings on the ammo question. On the one hand, with no ammo limit, then a lot of these skills will just be way too spammable. On the other, as I mentioned before I tried playing a throwbarb in D2 and found that I had to carry an inventory full of spare weapons, since I was always running out of ammo. Even with Gimmershreds, which have a stack size of 240, I could easily run out after just a couple of minutes. He was a really fun character to play, for two minutes at a time.

 

[lunarleif]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Oh, ok. That's still spammable once someone figures out how to hack mana or stamina. Defense penalty after or before makes no difference if you're running generally. Cool down would work but those are annoying. Cool down is the cheap way out.

 

[CCCenturion]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

I guess I just don't really know what you mean by the whole "spammable" criticism. Most of the Wizard's skills are spammable. A lot of the Witch Doctor's skills are spammable too.

In D2 we had Charged Bolt, Lightning, Chain Lightning, Nova (and all of their cold and fire counterparts), Blessed Hammer, Multi-Shot, Guided Arrow, Strafe (the D2 version), Teeth, Bone Spear, Bone Spirit, Tornado, Twister, Whirlwind, Double Throw, just to name a few. So a lot of skills in D2 were spammable, and a lot of skills in D3 are going to be spammable.

So what exactly is the problem with how this skill works?

 

[lunarleif]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Nothing wrong with it, but if you create a detailed version, remember to balance it. Also, on spammable, don't forget the druid's awesome hurricane and Armageddon.

 

[Summoned]

Re: Class idea: The Mentalist

Also, on spammable, don't forget the druid's awesome hurricane and Armageddon.

Those actually had cooldowns.

Activate them and they both become red for a while, so it's near impossible to keep them both going at the same time without a lot of +duration synergies.