CL/FO Sorc for evaluation

[Laran]

CL/FO Sorc for evaluation

Keep in mind, please, that this is for magic find in solo games. I want her to be effective in Baal runs, but not to the point that her ability to deal with immunes is compromized. Also note that this gear is NOT optimized. This is the gear I have on the character who will become my sorceress. Currently she is lvl 1 and waiting for a rush that will not eat up her forge.

My main concerns are:

-Life
-Faster Cast Rate
-MF
-Merc
-Other possible gear.

In that order. I have NO IDEA what merc to use here, I was thinking A2 Defiance, but I am simply not sure. All input is welcome. Special thanks to the people who responded to my Shield for Max Block thread. Your help let this character get close to my goals for blocking, life, and resistances. Thanks a bunch. The only reason I would look at other possible gear would be because it offered massively more MF while retaining the same firepower. Affordablity IS a concern.

All that being said, here goes:

Laran's CL/FO Sorc

Skill Allocation to lvl 85

15 Lightning
20 Chain Lightning
1 Static Field
1 Teleport
1 Energy Sheild
20 Lightning Mastery
1 Frozen Armour
9 Cold Mastery
20 Frozen Orb
1 Warmth
7 PreReqs
______________
96 Skill Points at lvl 85

Skills after +Skills

23 Lightning (13-4537)
28 Chain Lightning (8-3275)
9 Static Field
9 Teleport
9 Energy Sheild
30 Lightning Mastery (-15%Res)
19 Cold Mastery (-110%-15%Res)
28 Frozen Orb (384-403)


Equiptment: (Noting important factors)

Helm: Tal Rasha's Horadric Crest, All Resistances +15, +30 To Mana, +60 To Life
Req lvl: 66
Req stat: 55 Str
Socket: PTopaz 24%MF

Armour: Tal Rasha's Guardianship, Cold Resist +40%, Lightning Resist +40%, Fire Resist +40%, **% Better Chance Of Getting Magic Items
Req lvl: 71
Req stat: 84 Str
Socket: PTopaz 24%MF

Belt: Tal Rasha's Fine-Spun Cloth, 37% Damage Taken Goes To Mana, +30 To Mana, +20 To Dexterity, 15% Better Chance Of Magic Items
Req lvl: 53
Req stat: 47 Str

Amulet: Tal Rasha's Adjudication +2 To Sorceress Skill Levels, Lightning Resist +33%, +42 To Mana, +50 To Life
Req lvl: 67

Ring1: Stone of Jordan, +1 Skills, Increase Maximum Mana 25%, +20 To Mana
Req lvl: 29

Ring2: Nagelring, 30% Better Chance Of Getting Magic Item
Req lvl: 7

Gloves: Chance Guards, 36% Better Chance of Getting Magic Item, 200% Extra Gold From Monsters
Req lvl: 15
Req stat: 25 Str

Boots: War Traveler, 25% Faster Run/Walk, +10 To Vitality, +10 To Strength, +48% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Req lvl: 42
Req stat: 95 Str

Main Weapon: Tal Rasha's Lidless Eye, 20% Faster Cast Rate, +77 To Mana, +57 To Life, +10 To Energy, +2 To Lightning Mastery, +2 To Fire Mastery, +2 To Cold Mastery
Req lvl: 65
Req stat: --
Socket: Ist 30%MF

Main Shield: Sanctuary Tower Shield (KoKoMal), +20% FHR, +20% FBR, +20% Block, +20 To Dex, AllRes+59
Req lvl: 49
Req stat: 75 Str

Set Bonus (Tal Rasha's)
+4 To Sorceress Skill Levels
65% Better Chance Of Getting Magic Items
25% Faster Hit Recovery
+150 To Life
All Resistances +50
+30% Faster Cast Rate
-15% To Enemy Fire Resistance (3 Items)
-15% To Enemy Lightning Resistance (4 Items)
+15% To Cold Skills Damage (Complete Set)

Charms: Anni 17/13/9

Resistances Normal
Fir: + 207
Lit: + 240
Cld: + 207
Psn: + 167

Resistances Nightmare
Fir: + 157
Lit: + 190
Cld: + 157
Psn: + 117

Resistances Hell
Fir: + 107
Lit: + 140
Cld: + 107
Psn: + 67

Stats(listed w/ Anni)

Str: 105( 78+27) (To wear Travs, 95 str req before bonus)
Dex: 215(158+57)
Vit: 193(166+27)
Nrg: 140(103+27)

Stat(true) 435pts

Str: 78(10+ 68)
Dex: 158(25+133)
Vit: 166(10+156)
Nrg: 113(35+ 78)
Points = 435

+Skills (w/ Anni)
To all: 2
To sorc: 6
To cold: ?
To light: ?

Faster Cast Rate = +50 (Need more?)
+Life = +317
+Mana = +199(+25%)
~Life = 785
~Mana = 800

MagicFind = +360%

Blocking

Block% = [Blocking * (Dex -15)] / (clvl x 2)
75 = [ 64 * (Dex -15)] / ( 85 x 2)
215 = Dex

If you read all that - you are more patient than most. Please take the time to comment, I am looking for ideas I may have overlooked, as well as alternatives to the setup I have outlined here.

 

[melianor]

Resistances Hell
Fir: + 107
Lit: + 140
Cld: + 107
Psn: + 67

I think that is a BIT overshot , since it will be display 75% allres
Also your DEX requirement for the Shield is rather high, but i guess thats a personal preference.

I would also dismiss Nagelring and place another SOJ. Using the Lightning tree skills is all about adding +skills, though i guess for Single Player it will be enough.

About your skills:
Though you might loose ~40pts damage on CL, i would rather max Lightning and leave LM at 15, since Chain Lightning can be a real pain against single cold immune monsters, in terms of damage dealing, since it wont start to bounce. This way you get over 1000 more Lightning damage added, at the cost of ~40pts Chain Lightning damage

20 Lightning 11-5634
20 Chain Lightning 8-3231
15 Lightning Mastery
+2 LM from Tal's Orb
+8 Skills

You need more FCR!!! Replace those Chanceguards with Magefist and you are better, though having the 13fpc breakpoint might be recommendable.
For Teleporting using Wizard Spike and Lidless might be a good idea, so that you get nice speed while teleporting to Andy, Mephisto or Baal.

The FCR breakpoints for Lightning and Chain Lightning are different between:

FCR %  	FPC
0 	19
7 	18
15 	17
23 	16
37 	15
52 	14
78 	13
117 	12

Otherwise i think the buld looks just fine for Single Player :thumbsup:

 

[Laran]

I think that is a BIT overshot , since it will be display 75% allres:
Also your DEX requirement for the Shield is rather high, but i guess thats a personal preference.

Well, it's either that, or have 40 less... I think I like that shield. And the set won't go anywhere.

I would also dismiss Nagelring and place another SOJ. Using the Lightning tree skills is all about adding +skills, though i guess for Single Player it will be enough.

Well, that sounds good from a damage standpoint, but you are taking away 66 MF when you strip me of my Nagel and my Chancies.

About your skills:
Though you might loose ~40pts damage on CL, i would rather max Lightning and leave LM at 15, since Chain Lightning can be a real pain against single cold immune monsters, in terms of damage dealing, since it wont start to bounce. This way you get over 1000 more Lightning damage added, at the cost of ~40pts Chain Lightning damage

20 Lightning 11-5634
20 Chain Lightning 8-3231
15 Lightning Mastery
+2 LM from Tal's Orb
+8 Skills

I think that that makes sense, I will do that.

You need more FCR!!! Replace those Chanceguards with Magefist and you are better, though having the 13fpc breakpoint might be recommendable.
For Teleporting using Wizard Spike and Lidless might be a good idea, so that you get nice speed while teleporting to Andy, Mephisto or Baal.

The FCR breakpoints for Lightning and Chain Lightning are different between:

FCR %  	FPC
0 	19
7 	18
15 	17
23 	16
37 	15
52 	14
78 	13
117 	12

Otherwise i think the buld looks just fine for Single Player :thumbsup:

I understand needing FCR, however, if my MF suffers, what good will it do me? When I am in a Baal game, or if I am in a multi-player game, it would make sense to use the Magefists and the other SoJ, they both add something I would need, FCR and extra mana. Also, the Magefists wouldn't get me to where I would need to be for 13 FPC, I would need 10 MORE after that, so Buh-bye SoJ... I think I'll stick with 15FPC (or 5 casts every 3 seconds).

The main (if not only) puropse of this character is to be able to MF everywhere: Pits, Countess, Andy, Ancient Tunnels, Meph, and maybe Baal. If my MF is below 300, I don't know that it would be worth wasting all that time... The runs will not be hugely fast, as I will run each area in the same game. To make up for game length, I will have to have good MF or pay the consequences by never finding anything. I must, however build the character first, so that I can decide if I can kill AT ALL without magefists and another SoJ.

Thanks for the reply, I hope to get more like it. I need to be made to think about this character's weaknesses, so that I can find ways to overcome them. Keep the comments coming!

P.S. This character is not for single player. It will be made on Ladder USEast, but will normally play in games by itself, for MF.

 

[jackfish]

My personal CL/Orb build (level 85):

5+ (adding as I level) charged bolt
20 lightning (somewhere around 8k avg)
20 chain (13 bolts x 5k avg)
20 mastery

20 frozen orb (5 pre-req's)
1 cold mastery (with +8 to +10 skills it's been enough)
static (16m radius)
tk/tp (tele is 6 mana per cast)
frozen armor

Gear:

3/20 eschutas w/4-5 / occy w/ist for mf
3s diamond HHG / lidless w/p diamond for mf
CL ormus w/5-5 / tals armor w/15 all res jewel for mf
24/14 griffons
silkweaves / war travs for mf
arachnid mesh / tals belt for mf
frostburns / magefist for mf
maras / tals ammy for mf
soj + raven / soj + wisp
6 bo cta
3x 18-20 life scs with 11% cold
3x 18-20 life scs with 11% light
15/15/10 anni
8x lightning gcs
2x 15/15-17 life mana sc's

life in the 700's w/o bo
fcr always above 105% (for tele, I just stick with 3rd highest tier for lightning)
block always 75% (I think it's worth it)
max resists with regular gear (above 50 with mf gear)
mf varies around 300% with xtra charms

CAN HANDLE WSK and Baal with ease

Base stats (w/o gear)

86 STR (enough for HHG, up'd lidless)
29x dexterity (went for max block with trolls nest base 40%, make up life with charms)
1xx vitality (most life comes from sc's, and +2 life per pt isnt a whole lot)
base energy

 

[melianor]

Well, it's either that, or have 40 less... I think I like that shield. And the set won't go anywhere.


Well, that sounds good from a damage standpoint, but you are taking away 66 MF when you strip me of my Nagel and my Chancies.

I think that that makes sense, I will do that.

I understand needing FCR, however, if my MF suffers, what good will it do me? When I am in a Baal game, or if I am in a multi-player game, it would make sense to use the Magefists and the other SoJ, they both add something I would need, FCR and extra mana. Also, the Magefists wouldn't get me to where I would need to be for 13 FPC, I would need 10 MORE after that, so Buh-bye SoJ... I think I'll stick with 15FPC (or 5 casts every 3 seconds).

The main (if not only) puropse of this character is to be able to MF everywhere: Pits, Countess, Andy, Ancient Tunnels, Meph, and maybe Baal. If my MF is below 300, I don't know that it would be worth wasting all that time... The runs will not be hugely fast, as I will run each area in the same game. To make up for game length, I will have to have good MF or pay the consequences by never finding anything. I must, however build the character first, so that I can decide if I can kill AT ALL without magefists and another SoJ.

300 MF is enough. MF just plays such a minimal part in item finding and rest is all about luck. We havea nice little chart somewhere and seriously, with more killing power and speed you will be able to do more runs, which means more items. In the end higher killing power and speed is more important than your amount of MF. In the time you do 10 runs you can do 20 and THAT makes alot of difference, while the difference of 60% MF more, will not be noticeable against the higher killing power and speed.
Ask more people here who MF alot and you will get the same reply. Don't expect items to drop out of the sky. MFing is mostly about patience.

Me personally has never counted the amoutn of MF runs made since start of 1.10, but you can be sure that i have done close to 5000 in that period of time. Sometimes you jst find nothing although you have 700 MF, then you have a lucky streak and all is fine.

Concentrate on killing power and speed then put in MF where you still have space. 300 MF more just fine.

 

[Laran]

Concentrate on killing power and speed then put in MF where you still have space. 300 MF more just fine.

I agree, I am just a bit confused as to why Use a second SoJ and Magefists, if it will only take me up one frame... I would need a FCR ring to hit 13FPC but really, does that one frame matter THAT much?

5+ (adding as I level) charged bolt
20 lightning (somewhere around 8k avg)
20 chain (13 bolts x 5k avg)
20 mastery

20 frozen orb (5 pre-req's)
1 cold mastery (with +8 to +10 skills it's been enough)
static (16m radius)
tk/tp (tele is 6 mana per cast)
frozen armor

Gear:

3/20 eschutas w/4-5 / occy w/ist for mf
3s diamond HHG / lidless w/p diamond for mf
CL ormus w/5-5 / tals armor w/15 all res jewel for mf
24/14 griffons
silkweaves / war travs for mf
arachnid mesh / tals belt for mf
frostburns / magefist for mf
maras / tals ammy for mf
soj + raven / soj + wisp
6 bo cta
3x 18-20 life scs with 11% cold
3x 18-20 life scs with 11% light
15/15/10 anni
8x lightning gcs
2x 15/15-17 life mana sc's

life in the 700's w/o bo
fcr always above 105% (for tele, I just stick with 3rd highest tier for lightning)
block always 75% (I think it's worth it)
max resists with regular gear (above 50 with mf gear)
mf varies around 300% with xtra charms

CAN HANDLE WSK and Baal with ease

Base stats (w/o gear)

86 STR (enough for HHG, up'd lidless)
29x dexterity (went for max block with trolls nest base 40%, make up life with charms)
1xx vitality (most life comes from sc's, and +2 life per pt isnt a whole lot)
base energy

While all this sounds good, I am really not that rich. Perfection is not what I am after, I am after plausability. I don't have 5/5 Facets laying around, and I don't have mass life sc's and/or mfscs laying around either. While I could get all of this gear, it would mean dismantling every other character I have. Not an option for me. I am looking for a character who can efficently do magic find runs in the normal areas, and possibly in wsk and baal. Also, while 2 life per Vit doesn't mean that much, it still means that my life is higher than 700 or so before charms. I want the character to have approx 1000 life once I get her to 90 or so. Survivalbity > Max damage.

 

[pryzmatik2]

between 300% MF and 360% MF, you won't see much of a difference, and having that 63% faster cast breakpoint will help ALOT, so my advice is that you do slap on the magefists.

Also, try getting some 6%-7% magic find small charms, they shouldn't be too expensive.

 

[Laran]

between 300% MF and 360% MF, you won't see much of a difference, and having that 63% faster cast breakpoint will help ALOT, so my advice is that you do slap on the magefists.

Also, try getting some 6%-7% magic find small charms, they shouldn't be too expensive.

63% Break? It goes 0...7...15...23...37...52...78...117. What am I missing here? I am willing to lose the Chancies, and I'll use the Magefists, giving me 70%FCR.

Next question... Do I use 2 SoJ's or do I use 1 SoJ and a FCR Ring for 78%FCR for 13 FPC? The FCR Ring I have currently available does like 14 Dex as well, allowing me some wiggle room on the shield issue. I would like to be able to use a Rhyme TowerShield instead, if I ever find a 2 socket one lol. Please let me know what you think.

As for the smfcs I do have a couple, but I trade them off almost as fast as I get them. If that 66 mf from the Chancies and the Nagel means nothing, then Why bother with them? I am going to try to get Vita scs, to get me closer to my 1000 life preference... Please tell me the advantage of a few mfscs if the Chancies and the Nagel don't matter...

 

[melianor]

63% Break? It goes 0...7...15...23...37...52...78...117. What am I missing here? I am willing to lose the Chancies, and I'll use the Magefists, giving me 70%FCR.

Lightning and Chain Lightning are: ...37...52...78...117
All other skills:......... ...63 ... 105... 200

So for teleporting 63 is good enough, Lightning and Chain LIghtning will need a bit more, and yes you WILL see the difference! Hitting breakpoints IS important in 1.10

With just adding Magefists you will cast all other spells fast enough to survive (one form ost teleporting!) and Lightning and Chain Lightning will be a bit slower, than with the next breakpoint, but i think you can live with that, or replace Nagelring with a 10FCR ring, either magic or rare.

I'd suggest, Magefist, 1xSoj and FCR Ring.

MF really really is not THAT important! 300 puts you in a nice postion for your MFing.

 

[Laran]

Lightning and Chain Lightning are: ...37...52...78...117
All other skills:......... ...63 ... 105... 200

So for teleporting 63 is good enough, Lightning and Chain LIghtning will need a bit more, and yes you WILL see the difference! Hitting breakpoints IS important in 1.10

With just adding Magefists you will cast all other spells fast enough to survive (one form ost teleporting!) and Lightning and Chain Lightning will be a bit slower, than with the next breakpoint, but i think you can live with that, or replace Nagelring with a 10FCR ring, either magic or rare.

I'd suggest, Magefist, 1xSoj and FCR Ring.

MF really really is not THAT important! 300 puts you in a nice postion for your MFing.

Sound's good, will do. Now I have to find a pair of Magefists somewhere >.<

 

[twelvebagger]

Here’s my take:

Your setup looks good, the suggestion to add in the fists was a good one.



Now in regards to mf:

I concur that killing speed and MF should balance, and it just so happens that there isn’t much difference between 300 and 400 mf. I have a find item barb with over 700 mf, and it’s not like he goes around horking up Tal’s armor and valor everywhere he goes.

With that said, you are making this sorc to be a mf machine, and I believe that your gear can be changed around freely for running various areas. For instance, if you were to run the pits, mausoleum, and ancient tunnels, I would believe that you are better off slapping on an occulus, rhyme, and shako, keeping the Tals armor, amulet, and belt for mf bonus, and running those weaker areas in that fashion. You’d have sufficiently more mf (You’d basically be taking 3 non-mf items and replacing them with about 145 mf), and you would lose some block, a chunk of resist, and some set bonuses (you would still get the 60+% mf bonus with 3 items).

However, once you hit level 80-85, you’re really only in NEED of those resists and that block rate, when you’re baal running, IMHO.

I guess what I am getting at is this:

Your gear, to me, looks more survival oriented rather than power oriented. While I agree that this strategy is fine in areas where you need it, it could actually make your MF runs a bit worse.

If you can add to the MF and not lose appreciable killing speed, do it.

For the pits, mausoleum, ancient tunnels, Andariel, and maybe even meph, you should be able to add a chunk of mf and not sacrifice any killing speed.
For Baal, your current setup, with fists added, looks great.

 

[Laran]

Here’s my take:

Your setup looks good, the suggestion to add in the fists was a good one.

Now in regards to mf:

I concur that killing speed and MF should balance, and it just so happens that there isn’t much difference between 300 and 400 mf. I have a find item barb with over 700 mf, and it’s not like he goes around horking up Tal’s armor and valor everywhere he goes.

With that said, you are making this sorc to be a mf machine, and I believe that your gear can be changed around freely for running various areas. For instance, if you were to run the pits, mausoleum, and ancient tunnels, I would believe that you are better off slapping on an occulus, rhyme, and shako, keeping the Tals armor, amulet, and belt for mf bonus, and running those weaker areas in that fashion. You’d have sufficiently more mf (You’d basically be taking 3 non-mf items and replacing them with about 145 mf), and you would lose some block, a chunk of resist, and some set bonuses (you would still get the 60+% mf bonus with 3 items).

However, once you hit level 80-85, you’re really only in NEED of those resists and that block rate, when you’re baal running, IMHO.

I guess what I am getting at is this:

Your gear, to me, looks more survival oriented rather than power oriented. While I agree that this strategy is fine in areas where you need it, it could actually make your MF runs a bit worse.

If you can add to the MF and not lose appreciable killing speed, do it.

For the pits, mausoleum, ancient tunnels, Andariel, and maybe even meph, you should be able to add a chunk of mf and not sacrifice any killing speed.
For Baal, your current setup, with fists added, looks great.

Again, while I respect your opinion, one of the main reasons for NOT using Occy is that I HATE being out of control. If I get hit, and I teleport somewhere else, I have to immediately sum up the new situation. I generaly play Dii like I drive, constantly finding a way out of any situation. "What would I do were this to happen, or this...?" I need to constantly change my strategy, so I avoid dying. if 66 MF is non-essential, then how is 145 and more important? I think that overkill takes less time than underkill, and even if it means 30 seconds on the run, I think I would rather go faster. I know something about runs myself, I've been with the game since Sorce's best avaiable equiptment was Culwin's Point and Sigons Shield. I've maybe done 16 or 17000 runs in that time. (Mostly Meph) What I know from those runs is: If you can add 5 MF or take away 1 Second. Take the second.