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Cheesadin input

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by zerth, May 3, 2008.

  1. zerth

    zerth IncGamers Member

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    Cheesadin input

    Never played a hammerdin in my life, though I've played some bnet and I am contemplating on creating one on SP (the shame!!! :embarassed:). The aim is fast and easy /p8 baal runs (ok, /p3 for baal himself).

    Here's what I am thinking, based on what I have stashed so far:

    Heart of the Oak (not rolled it yet, but I have both Vex and Pul): 3 skills, 40 fcr, [email protected]
    Spirit on a [email protected] Royal Shield (I have 7 rune packs /w hel, hope it'll be enough): 55% base ctb, 2 skills, 55fhr (yay), mana, [email protected] (I will get 35 fr from boots, ring or charms easily)
    Shako: 2 skills, mana, life, 10% dr, mf
    Arach: 1 skill, 20 fcr
    Magefist: 20 fcr
    Mara's: 2 skills, [email protected]
    Armor: Shaftstop (minions): 30% dr, life (maybe switch to Skullders for baal)
    Ring: SoJ: 1 skill, mana
    Ring: fcr ring, 10fcr
    Charms: No combat skillers (sigh, I HAVE NEVER FOUND/ROLLED ONE. NEVER. What, are they more rare or something?). Life, mana, res, fhr charms as appropriate.

    Aims are: 125 fcr, 86 fhr, maxed resists, max block

    Questions to the experiencedins:

    1. According to the d2 skill calculator I will have 8K hammer damage. Is that enough for /p8 baal runs (on bnet iirc 13K is the standard damage output)?
    2. Should I up+hel the shaft? (even with a bad roll the def increase is considerable ~600 points before holy shield according to my calculations). Are there better options for the armor spot? Is dr unnecessary? (que hegans for instance has fhr, fcr (I can ditch the 10fcr ring for a BK, so +2 skills total gain), skill and probably looks better)
    3. What merc? I am thinking Might with Treachery, Andy's and Obedience eThresher for max pwnage, or should I take the Holy Freeze + Insight route?
    4. Any alternative gear choices I should be aware of? I have a HoZ, a 15fcr / 2 combat skills / [email protected] ammy and most of the TC78 and below uniques.
    5. Are hammerdins playable without teleport or am I wasting my time? :undecided:
    6. Anything else you'd like to share oh knowledgable ones? :wave: (for instance how do you get out if a mob surrounds you? will charge do?)
     
  2. Jaago

    Jaago IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    1. Might be a little low to be too fast, but probably doable. For the record, I only had 7k, but I think I didn't do p8 runs when I still ran Baal with my hdin.
    2. I think the Strength requirements would go too high compared to your other gear. I don't know how much you need the Shaftstop, either. I liked Guardian Angel.
    3. Lots of choices. Something that doesn't die easily. Might could be a bit redunant with your concentration. I'd pick HF. Treachery is good, as is Andy's. Insight you don't need if you have redemption. Reaper's/Obedience get my votes. Kelpie would be preferable against Baal.
    4. You probably want to have something fast with CB on switch and 1pt in Fanaticism. Baal takes very long to kill with just Hammers. Smite is better.
    5. NO !1!1!!one!11eleven! Just kidding. You'll have maxed Vigor and Charge at your disposal so moving fast isn't a problem.
    6. Charge won't help when surrounded; just Hammer away and everything dies.
    Other tips: Don't roll a below 35 fcr Spirit.
    You might want to consider wearing a Raven Frost ring for the CBF if freeze annoys you.



     
  3. zerth

    zerth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    Thanks for the response.

    I will start with upped que hegan's and I will try shaft with some str charms before I allocate the stat points (now that I think of it I am short of Lems for the upping but I will manage).
    Fortunately, I have a 2os heavens light. Assuming I will helshael it to lower the str req, I will reach 9 fpa, lowest being 8fpa. Also I get to use the HoZ to maintain reasonable resists and max blocking. So that should cover Baal.
    CBF, CBF. I knew I had forgotten something! Now where is that Cham... :/
     
  4. Jaedhann

    Jaedhann IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    What's wrong with a good ol' vipermagi?



     
  5. zerth

    zerth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    Nothing, but i do not need the resists and can manage without fcr on the armor, so I figured I'd try to get other mods from that slot. Plus Vipermagi doesn't look very good :)

    ATM i am really leaning towards Que Hegan's. It'll net me enough fcr to ditch the fcr ring for a raven frost (I have one with 20 dex ^^) AND not worry about rerolling the spirit, +1 skill and 40 FHR when socketed with Shael which will let me hit the bp without relying on charms. Plus it looks awesome. What's not to like? Unless of course I get my *** kicked too much and I have to use shaft for the dr.
     
  6. Peppe

    Peppe IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    I have a lvl 87 cheesdin...

    I settled in at the about the same gear you proposed. I went with guardian angel for resists and more block/less dex.

    I tried HF and Defiance merc. The defiance one lives more often... they both die more often than i would like. I gave him an upped eth kelpie snare for Baal and don't bother to change it out for other areas.

    Insight merc isn't needed. Get redemption or use meditation yourself.

    I have a few skillers and ended up at 9k-10k on the char screen.
     
  7. zerth

    zerth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    Hmm, maybe a more defensive approach on the merc is in order. I will have to see. Is the problem physical or elemental damage? In my experience Shaftstop + Vamp Gaze solves the first, while Guardian Angel + Kiras the second. However I will try the powerhouse merc approach first (the best defense is offense, or so they say...)
     
  8. Peppe

    Peppe IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    The witches around the throne room kill him most often. I haven't played the character much lately, so don't remember too well what used to kill his merc. The character is pretty solid.

    My merc probably needs different gear.

    He currently has:
    Eth Kelpie Snare
    Stone Runeword, 3000 something def
    Eth Andy

    The main character is so strong i havn't bothered much with the merc... just get him revived for baal.
     
  9. Grisu

    Grisu IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    It's very hard to get max block with a Spirit shield without Guardian Angel. Of course, it's doable, but you will have to sacrifice a lot of Vitality points in favour of Dexterity and will have to pump HS quite a lot. Also, the additional resists come in quite handy.
    I never regretted switching to Guardian Angel with my Hammerdin. One thing about Raven Frost: Being frozen doesn't affect cast animation. So CBF is definitely cool to have, but not a must IMHO.

    And about the defence merc: As far as I remember hammers cast while being hit don't do any damage at all. So a Defiance mercenary might indeed be an option, although I still hold on to my Holy Freeze one.
     
  10. Jingizu

    Jingizu Banned

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    What about this setup...?

    HotO
    Skin of Vipermagi/resist jewel,PTopaz...
    HoZ/PDiamond
    Shako/PTopaz
    Magefist
    Arach
    War traveller
    your 2 combat/15 fcr amulet
    Ravenfrost (CBF, dex for block)
    SoJ

    You will have 125 FCR, good resists, max block with quite few points in dex, you will also spare points from str, that means more life. This will get you quite a good mf too (for baalruns).

    Don't forget that you are a caster, forget shaftstop... Skin gives you +1 skill (=damage), fcr and resist (=life), enables you not to wear spirit (which is not bad, but when you do not need more fcr, I will choose HoZ due to damage output and block).

    I will also invest one point in fanaticism and get some nice weapon switch for smiting Baal (second HoZ and crescent moon, stormlash, anything with good CB...). The rest of points could go into resist lightning (passive max resist increase).

    The merc shold be able to survive p8 minions, main problem will be Lister and 3rd group (hydras are really painful for merc). HF merc with Kelpie or Reapers will slow Lister a lot, Guardian angel will help your merc to survive elemental attacks...

    My personal favourite:
    HF merc
    Upped Guardian Angel with Um
    Vampire Gaze with all resist jewel
    Upped ethereal Kelpie Snare with Shael
     
  11. colony

    colony IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    I agree with the other people who said to try Vipermagi and HoZ. The main problem then though is that you lose a lot of FHR. Some good rares (or Treks) with a Shael in armour and helm will get you to 50 or 60 FHR, carrying 6 or 8 FHR SCs isn't too bad, especially if they come with resists or something good. I'd definitely keep a CB weapon in your cube or on switch and put a point in Fanat. If you have a lash then that'd be the best option, but a Black flail also works welll

    On my hammerdin's merc I use a HF one with Kira's, Treachery and eth up'd Hone. I mainly only use him for applying CB to Baal though, as the minions go down quite quickly anyway, you have to decide if you want a defensive tank or need him for something else.

    I'd suggest something like this:

    Shako with Shael
    Mara's
    HotO
    Vipermagi with Shael
    HoZ with PDiamond or Um
    Arachnid
    Trang's Gloves
    SoJ/BK
    FCR ring
    Rare boots/Waterwalks/Treks/anything really

    I wouldn't sacrifice killing speed for MF until you're sure you've got good enough run times.
     
  12. Jingizu

    Jingizu Banned

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    I'm afraid that this gives only 120FCR, he seems to go for 125, this is why I reccomend his 15%fcr ammy and no fcr ring.

    Colony is right with fhr, socketing shael in Shako and/or Vipermagi is good idea:smiley:

    Jingizu throws away his PTopaz Shako :rolleyes:



     
  13. colony

    colony IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    Good point, I counted Vipermaghi as being 35 FCR, so yeah, just use the 2/15 amulet and another SoJ/BK/Raven instead of a FCR ring.
     
  14. zerth

    zerth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Cheesadin input

    HoZ, Viper, HotO, Arach, Magefist is what I thought when I crafted that ammy. Then I found 2 [email protected] royal shields (nice armor rack in LK ^^) and rolled 4 sockets on one of them. Choices, choices...

    The Guardian Angel variant is also tempting. Less dex investment, 90 resists to all elements, good def (though 118 str req)... I also see that Kelpie upgrades to Stygian Pike which is decent damage even with the low ed and I happen to have an eth one :evil:

    Basically HoZ variant (what Jingizu suggests) will net about 300 more hammer damage at the expense of FHR (HoZ: 10 all skills + 4 combat skills while Spirit: 12 all skills). HoZ + mara's wont hit 125 fcr unless I use 2 fcr rings (and I havent gambled anything to write home about). Furthermore, with spirit I get added versatility on armor slot. More or less, the gained dex points will be made up for spirit's mana and less fhr charms on inventory that can be used for 18-20 life small charms.

    Black is a nice (and dirt cheap) option I wasn't aware of :thumbsup:. More cb than heavens light, less reqs and effectively same speed. Also low reqs on flails. Only problem I see is that it will be hard to distinguish between the two weapon-shield slots. I am thinking a 4os [email protected] Royal shield with pdiamonds to have maxed resists with both weapon-shield slots, so they will look identical. I will have to look into it. By the way, I assume 7 fpa smite is enough to stunlock Baal or is 6 necessary?

    I am worried about the merc. Without teleport to reposition him, the moron will always get into trouble. Anyone tried without merc :cool:?
     

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