Character Build Categories- Please Comment

Quickdeath

Diabloii.Net Member
Character Build Categories- Please Comment

I'm posting this on a new thread because this was being developed at the end of a longer thread that was titled differently. I'd like to encourage wider comment from the SPF community

Even though all builds are arguably Hell-feasible/viable, and even though different playing styles will affect which builds are suited for different people, we are trying to put together a guide for 1.10 Single Player-only Character Builds that helps people understand which builds are generally more straightforward to get through Hell and which builds are more challenging. We were seeking to characterize the major builds, realizing that we would not list the endless number of hybrids. It is assumed that the builds are Softcore; presumably some builds might be very challenging to play HC -we just haven't thought about this.

Most of us have only played a fraction of these builds, and so there are almost certainly mistakes in categorization. Additionally, we may have overlooked your favorite build. So, please comment.

Easy untwinked:
Fishymancer
MeteorOrb Sorc
Lightning Trapsin

Easy Twinked:
Conc Barb
Hammerdin
LF Zon
Fury WereWolf
Wind Druid
BoneMancer
Fire Sorc
Blizzard Sorc
CL/Orb Sorc
Tesladin
WW Barb

Medium:
Martial Arts Sin (TS/Dtail, Dtalon,PStrike)
Strafezon
Zerker Barb
Frenzy Barb
Thrower Barb
Shockwave WereBear
Blade Fury Sin
Frost Zealot
Avenger
VenomMancer
Spearazon
Fanatical Zealot

Time-consuming/Hard:
Tankazon
Meleemancer
Templar Paladin
Chargadin
Tri-elementalist Sorc
Shadow Sin (Ninja)
Magic Arrow Zon
Singer Barb
Hunter Druid/Summoner
Fire Druid
Martyr Pally
Enchantress
Attomancer/Mojo Mancer
Jabbazon
Iron barb

Insane:
Wirtywart (or whatever the Farting One calls it)
Golemmancer
Leaper Barb
Single Tree Pallys

We need more insane builds on this list -but lets only list those builds that people have really taken deep into Hell.
 

corax

Diabloii.Net Member
you forgot a mojomancer. they are insane


i'd put blizz sorc in easy. they are straightforward and you can just skip most CI's
 

Thirty-Thirty

Diabloii.Net Member
In my experience, a Hammerdin doesn't need to be twinked. I'd put him in the same category as a Meteorb.

Maybe Rabid and Fire-Claws wolf in medium difficulty?
 

Quickdeath

Diabloii.Net Member
Corax:

I had MojoMancer lumped with Atto Mancer in Hard, but I've never played either. We had an earlier comment that a Melee mancer should be elevated from insane to medium because Melee Mancers are effective becuase of the curses. I realize I'm confuesd: what's the difference between a MojoMancer and a Meleemancer?

Here was my thinking on Blizzard and Fire Sorcs. To overcome the CIs and FIs the Sorcs hit them with Static Field and let their Mercs do the killing. Against swarms of Immunes, this gets dicey and twinking allows the Mercs to have some Uber Gear for survival and killing speed. So I listed them as Easy -Twinked to reflect that and also to show discrimination from the Meteorb Sorc, which is generally regarded as the cookie-cutter uber Sorc build.

But I had't thought about teleporting by immunes to avoid them - my questing style is different. But this will be a consensus list, so lets get more conversation.
 

Quickdeath

Diabloii.Net Member
Cormallon said:
Insane: naked necro / sorc ;)
Sounds like a formula for making making magic babies.

Seriously, are naked necros and sorcs different than naked barbs, amazons or assassins? Should they be categorized differently. Or is it that no one takes a naked Barb or naked Amazon deep into Hell?

(This conversation is getting interesting - let's not let any of those stuffy Paladins in the room with all these naked amazons and barbs. And, oh, Mr. Druid - you are such an animal!) :lol:
 

spiral55

Diabloii.Net Member
Quickdeath said:
what's the difference between a MojoMancer and a Meleemancer?
I'm not corax, but I can answer this. A Mojomancer uses NOTHING but curses, damaging monsters as little as possible himself or through minions. He uses the AI curses to make the monsters kill each other, and the merc is left to tackle bosses. A Meleemancer uses melee attacks, plus curses and maybe a small number of minions. Simply by being able to contribute some direct damage, a Meleemancer will have things easier and faster than a Mojomancer.
 

Chimaira

Diabloii.Net Member
Quickdeath said:
Sounds like a formula for making making magic babies.
Good one:)

Quickdeath said:
Seriously, are naked necros and sorcs different than naked barbs, amazons or assassins? Should they be categorized differently. Or is it that no one takes a naked Barb or naked Amazon deep into Hell?
There's a huge difference...a naked necromancer for example could still have an okay skeleton army to make his kills...slow going but doable. A sorceress would also be able to kill things with her skills alone..again slow but possible. A barbarian on the other hand would find things very difficult without a big hurty stick, since most of his skills rely on a big weapon to be efficient.

Very nice initiative...the other thread got a bit sidetracked:)
 

tenaka

Diabloii.Net Member
First, as for the list in general, I think it wouldbe more useful to people if it was doubled up with an untwinked list and a twinked list. My assumption from reading it is that the medium/hard/insane ratings are all for twinked play. Depening on the build, an untwinked rating may be the same, one slot harder or many slots harder. I'll stop before I start ranting on how people twink too much and how its getting more and more like Bnet every day...

As for builds:
Furysin should be easy twinked/medium untwinked. I found it pretty easy to get there HC untwinked, from there you need a few pieces of higher end gear to keep shining.

Frostmaiden Zon - Easy twinked, medium/hard untwinked. She definitly needs a good bow so untwinked depends on what you can come across. After that with a few charms you cankeep most of the world frozen and leech back all that mana she uses with another skill (multi/strafe). Kinda fragile for HC though.

Firemaiden Zon - I've only taken her to the middle of NM so far so someone else's opinion is needed. I'd just like to see her listed. She's definitly not easy because a lot of things won't stay in the fire.
 
Blizz sorcs and hammerdins need to move up a category, and i'll add some insane builds for you.
Fartarian (not wirtywart as you called him :p)
pyschic hammer sin
Dentist
throwing potions pally
All of these deserve an insane title.
Oh, and i suggest putting them on a website. just make a table with frontpage, add each intlo the right section and you can even do links to some guides if there are any. that'll be easier to update and look prettier.
 

JihadJesus

Diabloii.Net Member
I know you didn't want to get into sub-builds, but it can make a pretty big difference for some characters. Example: Ranged enchantress vs. Melee enchantress vs. 2 handed-axe enchantress. I don't think you need to totally separate them out, but a note or warning might be appropriate next to the build name.
 

bumbleguppy

Diabloii.Net Member
Easy Build

In my experience, Fanatic Zealot Paladins are very easy on /players1 Hell. Time consuming on more players because of nerfed phyical dmg.

Of course, life leech is the key....
 

jjscud

Diabloii.Net Member
It seems like we need a short list and a long list. A way to answer the standard SP "hell viable" build question without lots of confusion. At the same time it would be nice to have a master list of easy, medium, and hard builds for those who want to look a bit more.

As for the what makes a build question, a think a reasonable answer is anything with a guide. Obviously, there are very reasonable builds that are lacking in guides but suggesting a build without some information about it seems a bit pointless. If there are builds that should really be there then I'm sure we could find one or there is someone in the SP forum with the experience to make a guide.

Edit: looking at the current threads, a best build(s) for specific sets would also be helpful and able to answer many posts.
 

Quickdeath

Diabloii.Net Member
Modified for comments. See notes below.

Easy untwinked:
Fishymancer
MeteorOrb Sorc
Hammerdin
Lightning Trapsin
Blizzard Sorc

Easy Twinked:
Conc Barb
LF Zon
Fury WereWolf
Wind Druid
BoneMancer
Fire Sorc
CL/Orb Sorc
Tesladin
WW Barb
Fanatical Zealot
Blade Fury Sin

Medium:
Martial Arts Sin (TS/Dtail, Dtalon,PStrike)
Strafezon
Frost Maiden Zon
Zerker Barb
Frenzy Barb
Thrower Barb
Shockwave WereBear
Fireclaws Werewolf
Frost Zealot
Avenger
VenomMancer
Spearazon
Charged Boltress

Time-consuming/Hard:
Tankazon
Meleemancer
Templar Paladin
Chargadin
Tri-elementalist Sorc
Shadow Sin (Ninja)
Fire Bowazon
Magic Arrow Zon
Singer Barb
Hunter Druid/Summoner
Fire Druid
Martyr Pally
Enchantress
Attomancer
Jabbazon
Iron barb

Insane:
Fartarian
Mojomancer
GolemMancer
Leaper Barb
Single Tree Pallys
Naked Sorc
Naked Necromancer

I haven't put Psychic HammerSin or Potions-only Pally on the list because I wonder whether they've ever been taken into deep Hell. I thought a lot about the Dentist when I originally made the list, F-Bob, but the Dentist (Teeth Necro) is really a playing-style variant on the BoneMancer with virtually the identical placement of skill points.

Tenaka, I agree that two lists -twinked and untwinked - would be useful. But I'm guessing it would badly complicate the conversation about making this first list. We can go that way if more people advocate it.

Jihad Jesus: I had thought of adding the Executress -probably as an insane build. In your opinion, is a ranged enchantress easier or harder than a melee enchantress? That one is not clear due to the reduction in enchant damage with ranged weapons.

The list is missing The Lord of Mages - a Necro with skeleton mages. Is this worth putting on? Anyone know which category it should go in?

And, so far, I've kept the Fartarian. IMHO, the Fartarian is different than, say, an Amazon who is limited to a cross-bow. Why? Because Wirt's leg is not a standard weapon and its use makes this build singular; because the Fartarian has indeed been taken through Hell (by F-Bob) and because there is a major tournament ongoing where others are taking Fartarian Pallys and Sorcs into Hell.
 

kabal

Diabloii.Net Member
If by "twinked" you mean have all equipment in the game available for use, then a lot of the medium builds become easy also. Give a frost zealot a stormlash and a strafer a windforce and they'll tear through the game much faster and with greater ease than any bonemancer or conc barb.

Edit: For the record, I don't believe bonemancers or conc barbs qualify as "easy" no matter how much you twink them. They may be extremely safe, but they just can't kill quickly enough to compare to the other builds listed under the easy category.
 

Gohanman

Diabloii.Net Member
Quickdeath said:
Medium:
Martial Arts Sin (TS/Dtail, Dtalon,PStrike)
Strafezon
Zerker Barb
Frenzy Barb
Thrower Barb
Shockwave WereBear
Blade Fury Sin
Frost Zealot
Avenger
VenomMancer
Spearazon
Fanatical Zealot
I'd classify all the bold ones as easy, if you have solid gear (having Mat'ed/Pat'ed all of them)
 

Quickdeath

Diabloii.Net Member
kabal said:
If by "twinked" you mean have all equipment in the game available for use, then a lot of the medium builds become easy also. Give a frost zealot a stormlash and a strafer a windforce and they'll tear through the game much faster and with greater ease than any bonemancer of conc barb.
Good point.

When we set up these categories, the intention was to really set up a relative ranking of builds. One could go down the list and say that those builds that are in the harder categories, it takes more access to uber gear to make them easy.

But your point is that as one twinks with progressively better gear, some of these builds have different "ceilings" than others. Tenaka's point as well. Some of these medium builds might become very hard with no twinking at all.

Mayeb we could just say that these rankings apply to mildly twinked builds and that your mileage may vary.

And maybe the Conc Barb and Bonemancer are rated too high?
 

Quickdeath

Diabloii.Net Member
Gohanman said:
I'd classify all the bold ones as easy, if you have solid gear (having Mat'ed/Pat'ed all of them)
Are they as easy as the builds in the easy category when they have comparable gear? If they are lightly twinked, how do they compare with the ones in the easy category (btw, I had already moved Fanat Zealot up into Easy-Twinked.)

Remember we're trying to help out noobs who are less likely to have great gear. And putting lots of uber gear may indeed tend to make many builds easy -perhaps because the access to uber gear becomes more importrant than the build characteristics (at least for well-designed builds).
 

Uzziah

Diabloii.Net Member
It looks as though I need to take my combat masteries tree barb deep into hell so that he can be put on this list. He is in act 1 Hell with 1 quest complete.

Another insane one, magi barb; I don't think anyone has played one yet though they take alot of work to get going. They are heavy twinked builds.
 

DeathMaster

Diabloii.Net Member
kabal said:
If by "twinked" you mean have all equipment in the game available for use, then a lot of the medium builds become easy also. Give a frost zealot a stormlash and a strafer a windforce and they'll tear through the game much faster and with greater ease than any bonemancer or conc barb.

Edit: For the record, I don't believe bonemancers or conc barbs qualify as "easy" no matter how much you twink them. They may be extremely safe, but they just can't kill quickly enough to compare to the other builds listed under the easy category.
I think, by "twinked", it means having reasonable supply of gears, not insanly rare gears. Who's gonna say BoTD any melee build "slow" or hard? but it is not the point unless it is on b.net where every build is insanly easy.
 
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