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changing players x question..

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by red_devil, Mar 30, 2004.

  1. red_devil

    red_devil IncGamers Member

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    changing players x question..

    ok guys.. my meteorb sorc tried meph hell runs with players 3 mode.. meph fell without much trouble and gave decent drops.. but to reach him i had to fight for a decent amount of time with the ghoul lords and council dudes.. so i have a few questions regarding this..

    1. can i dispose off the council and other minions with players 1 mode and change players 3 mode for mephisto alone.. will his drops in that case correspond to players 3 mode or players 1 mode..

    2. if thats possible can i be really cheesy playing diablo or baal getting them to almost dead with players 1 and change players to 3 or 4 just before drop..

    3. can sorcs teleport away from the trouble and directly fight meph?? i tried once but the council followed me.. i might have to try and land in the central island and jump to meph directly..

    thanks.. :buddies:
     
  2. i_marsolek

    i_marsolek IncGamers Member

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    ewhhhhhh, this is a little bit of a sticky situation here on the SPF as far as the drops, players x, and monster spawning are concerned. Yes you can sliver Mephisto and change it to players 1-8 and his drops will correspond to what ever player setting you put in. This is considered by some to be cheating and definitely consdiered cheesy because you are defeating a level 1 Mephisto and getting the rewards like he was level 3-8. A bad practice and I would stay away from it. Instead I suggest you just decide which psetting before hand and go at him.

    With your sorc you can enter D3 and immeadiately teleport across the wall on the right hand side (Bremm should spawn in the same place almost every time, so keep that in mind when using tele) now just go up, up, and left on the screen and this should put you on the main platform with Meph and have very few of the baddies bothering you if any. You can also use the moat trick although that is also cheesy and I won't discuse it here as I am becoming a cheese factory
     
  3. Death_Dealer

    Death_Dealer IncGamers Member

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    I think once a monster spawns that is where he is set. Changing players X after a monster spawns has no effect on that monster. I could be wrong but I believe that's true.
     
  4. red_devil

    red_devil IncGamers Member

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    this is exactly the issue i wanted to get clarified.. some one tell me if this is true.. if so when is a monster considered spawned.. is it as soon as i enter DOH or DOH level3.. :scratch:

    @i_marsolek.. thanks for the suggestion.. i will stay away from it.. but just wanted to know.. anyway i can beat meph quite easily.. ill try the sticking to the right thing.. it shold work.. :buddies:
     
  5. esd

    esd IncGamers Member

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    Players x setting affects monster health when it spawns (about 2 screeen distance I think). Drops from monsters/chests are affected when the items actually drop - when you kill a monster or open a chest. Not sure about exp though. This can be abused heavily (spawn on p1, kill on p8), and could be considered a cheat. But, if you kill Bremm and his gang on p1 without moving forward I think you could still change the players setting and Meph would spawn with the new setting (3x hitpoints) and that would not be cheating.
     
  6. Bull(R)

    Bull(R) IncGamers Member

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    Yup once a monster spawns he spawns at the player setting. If its set to players one, changing it to players 8 does NOTHING.

    As for MFing mephisto.. as a sorc I just teleport to level 3.. then jump over the wall right by the stairs, and tele to the middle island. After doing this I teleport beside meph static him down as far as I can, and lure him to the bridge. After he gets on it ( :rant: sometimes he takes forever to get on the bridge) I just teleport to the other side away from him and meteor him without being hit or ever touching the council. A hint.. I normally play on the small video settings, but changing it to 800x600 (or 600x800 i forget the order) works wonders vs meph, because you can still see him when he is on the bridge but he cant see you to the side.
     
  7. LprMan

    LprMan IncGamers Member

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    When you enter DoH 3, just teleport to Meph as fast as possible, no-one will follow you. Sometimes the 2 other council members spawn so near Meph they will come and attack you when you start fighting Meph. My advice for this situation is to reroll your map.

    But changing the players setting when Meph has only a sliver of life... :cheesy: Definitely not a good idea

    @ Bull(R)

    Why to lure him to the bridge (or whatever it is)? Isn't it much faster just to tele near him, static him few times, then just spam your spells and dodge his attacks?
     
  8. red_devil

    red_devil IncGamers Member

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    thats precisely what i wanted to do.. :thumbsup:

    @bull.. my question is when is a monster considered spawned.. when it appears on screen for the first time?? when first the map is loaded??
     
  9. Spook_Cell

    Spook_Cell IncGamers Member

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    I don't see why anyone would care if you changed the player setting just before killing a monster. Since first of all it won't help you and second of all the time you would have saved is wasted waiting around for the new player setting to kick in.
     
  10. Lacerta

    Lacerta IncGamers Member

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    This is a very interesting thread. Two answers from two groups of people who are convinced they know the truth.

    Changing /players after spawning changes nothing
    vs
    Changing /players after spawning changes drops but not life

    I actually have no idea, so I won't say (although I always had it in my mind that it was the former), but for honesty's sake, to be sure you aren't "cheating" (as defined by the SPF), you should set your /players for the bosses at the following places

    Act 1: Before opening the big doors ( some debate over this one, might be when you enter level 4 )
    Act 2: Before going through the hole in the wall
    Act 3: Before entering Durance 3
    Act 4: Before triggering the last seal
    Act 5: Before entering Baal's portal
     
  11. whomhead

    whomhead IncGamers Member

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    it seems like there is a lot of misinformation flying around the forum these days... let me try to clarify.

    for monsters, the players setting determines 1) hitpoints 2) experience 3) probability of rolling a no-drop. all of these are determined when the monster spawns. this occurs about 2-3 screen lengths away from your character. its kinda hard to tell when they spawn, but you'll know when you go to kill them and they've got tons of hitpoints. spawning a monster and then changing the players setting will not have any affect whatsoever on 1, 2, or 3 above.

    for chests/urns/rocks... the only thing that players setting affects is the number of items they drop. thus, the only possible exploit of the /players command in the DOH3 is to kill meph at players 3 and then switch it to players 8 to go open the super chest at the top, causing it to drop lots of items. you can change the setting as much as you want, but once a monster is spawned you are stuck with them just like they are.
     
  12. Spook_Cell

    Spook_Cell IncGamers Member

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    From personal experience hitpoints will change to the new player setting after spawning a monster, it just takes a minute or so before it does.
     
  13. Wolfgang Abenteuer

    Wolfgang Abenteuer IncGamers Member

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    Actually, in 1.09 it does. I don't know if they've fixed it in 1.10, but a strategy in 1.09 was to run through an area on players1 causing all of the monsters to spawn, then change to players8 and go back and kill them all. They'd have players1 HP (and experience), but players8 drops. That's because drops, or at least the no-drop factor, was calculated when the monster was killed, whereas HP and experience were determined when the monster was spawned. Mind you, I've never tried out that trick, but I've seen its effects when I've been fighting in an area that all of a sudden has a bunch of ugly enemies (I used to loathe the flesh spawners in Act IV), I would change the players setting from 8 back to 1-3, and often times a monster group would already have spawned off the screen that I didn't encounter until later on, and they had players8 experience and players8 HP, but only dropped like players1.

    Again, they may have fixed that in 1.10, in which case, disregard. :)

    ~Wolfgang
     
  14. i_marsolek

    i_marsolek IncGamers Member

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    I don't think this is correct...well at least your example is correct but the concept is a little off. At players 3 meph has like a .6% chance of a no drop which is rounded down to zero thus he will always drop six items. Than changing it to Players 8 and opening the chest would indeed increase the drops from the chest and not have any effect on Meph. However spawning meph with players 1 and thus having the lowest amount of hitpoints and then changing the players to 3-8 while in mid-battle will change his drops from a no drop cahnce of 15%? or something like that to whatever player setting you are currently at without affecting his hitpoints or experience. After, nightfish mentioned it in one of his posts I played around with this a bit and have found it to be true.
    ----------------------------------------------

    Meph does not spawn right away when you enter the Durance, you must ravel north a few steps first before he will spawn. I used maphack and the player settings command to determine when he spawned back in 1.09 and it seems you have to cross the first wall, or close to there.
     
  15. cholerajoe

    cholerajoe IncGamers Member

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    Not true
    Once he spawns thats it. Its allmost impossible to kill the monsters in mephs room without him spawning anyway. I think he actually spawns as soon as you get to that level. I know most monsters spawn at least 2 screens away. It may seem shorter if your running really fast but monsters can spawn a loong ways away. Only Baal can be a "sure" thing. I know he spawns a soon as you go through the gate.

    EDIT: From the post above it seems you have to go past the first wall.
     
  16. i_marsolek

    i_marsolek IncGamers Member

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    I'm done trying to convince people. Just try it for yourself and make your own judgment, and do what you think is right.
     
  17. HBeachBabe

    HBeachBabe IncGamers Member

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    would it be correct to assume that the /players x command works the same way that MP works when "Bob has entered your world. Diablo's minions grow stronger"

    so when someone enters an MP game, do the already spawned monsters get stronger and drop more?
     
  18. ChaosEternal

    ChaosEternal IncGamers Member

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    In MP, I believe that as soon as someone joins the game, all monsters, even if they spawned already, gain life and probably drops. Don't quote me on this because I usually played alone when I played on B.Net but I believe that is how it goes. If that is true it would mean that it works differently from from the /players x command.
     
  19. Muffassa

    Muffassa IncGamers Member

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    I have wondered this too and here is my logic on it:

    When a monster "spawns" the game checks to see the number of players and assigns the correct amount of health. Therefore, it is possible to set your meph run to players 1 and run him with players 1 health, or players 8 and run him with p8 health.

    When a monster "dies" the game checks to see the number of players and drops accordingly. Therefore, it is possible to set your meph run to players 8 and get a drop accordingly.

    Now, because we all realize that there is a time diffence between spawn and death (the time it takes to kill him) it is possible to spawn him at one level (players 1) sliver his life, and then reset his level to players 8. when Meph procedes to die, the game will "check" his level and drop at that level (in this case, a false players 8 level).

    Now, I see this as logical because the game doesn't check a drop (or any portion of the drop equation - such as player number) until the death of the monster. nor does the game check the life of the monster until it is spawned.

    Now, how this works with experience, I don't know. I belive experience would fall under the same category as drop - because it is added upon death - so for power expericencing, "spawn" monsters at p1, then change it to p8 and go back and kill them. The should have p1 health with p8 experience (if my theory holds true).

    Hopefully this has helped :)
     
  20. Bull(R)

    Bull(R) IncGamers Member

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    Okay this changing drop AFTER you have slivered health doesnt work. I used to (and still play) on Battle.Net with my fellow Ladder Climbers (we made 2 LEGIT 1.10 level 99s in our group.. going for a few more 1 will be me sooner or later) and this is how I know it works.

    IF there are 7 people in game, and you spawn a monster (now I don't know exactly about where you MUST be for meph to spawn.. but when we do baal runs once we enter the chamber baal spawns) he is spawned at the player settings at that moment. After he is spawned.. all but 2 of our members stay back (they are already in throne: a lvl 98 and someone to help him kill baal fast) and they then kill Baal when there are only 2 left in game. Now you said experience.. nope the 2 people get players 7 experience (for a 98 to get to 99 he needs it.. for me a 96 i get 100 or so thousand) and players 7 drop.

    If this was not true then they would get little to no exp (in a 1 person baal kill i get 30k instead of the 100k for 2 man in 7 man game)

    Now I am not 100% sure drops aren't rechecked at death.. but I doubt it

    If you don't believe me.. TRY IT YOURSELF:

    simply do a /players 1 run of meph record your exp before he dies and then your exp after... then do a /players 8 and again find out the amount of exp given... then lastly do /players 1 spawn and switch to /players 8 and you should still get the same amount of experience as in a players 1 game...and therefore the same drops as in a players 1 game
     

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