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Carrion Wind?

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by BipolarTemp, Mar 26, 2005.

  1. BipolarTemp

    BipolarTemp IncGamers Member

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    Carrion Wind?

    I was looking around on the AS the other day and I noticed the Carrion Wind ring has an 8% chance to cast level 13 twister. Normally people only hear about this ring (at least in my experience) for the poison creeper charges. However, I was considering what this ring would do on a strafer. That 8% should go off pretty often on a 9/2 strafer with good pierce (read: every strafer ever) and, if the twister is centered on the target rather than the caster, it could be a very effective form of crowd control.

    If I recall correctly, three twisters are released, which travel through monsters, stunning for 0.4 seconds. With an 8% chance to cast, 1 out of every 12.5 hits should cast. Considering a group of 30 monsters (10 across, 3 deep), with 85% chance to pierce and 10 targets attacked with level 20 strafe, every strafe should cast it approximately twice. One strafe with 10 arrows at 9/2 takes 27 frames or 1.08 seconds. If that indeed does cast twice, that's 0.8 seconds of stun, assuming the times don't overlap. That means monsters are spending 74% of the time stunned.

    Considering they'd have to start moving again after being stunned and they're hopefully being put into hit recovery sometimes, I don't think monsters would be able to advance very far on a strafer using this ring. Has anyone tried this? Am I completely off base? I don't have a ring or I'd try it myself, but I'm very interested to hear if it works like I think it would.
     
  2. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    Small issue: when it activates on your last Strafe arrow, you won't be able to start the next Strafe cycle until you're done casting. And amazons cast slow.
     
  3. bill_n_opus

    bill_n_opus IncGamers Member

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    Hmmnnnn ... interesting. I didn't have a Carrionwind ring ... until last night. Finally found it for my self-found SP Grail and boy was I happy. Since I play a Witchyzon i'm used to Amp going off once in awhile ... 8% ctc Twister should go off quite often.

    I'm going to try it soon and i'll report back when I can.

    One quick question though:

    if you have two Carrionwind rings do you get 16% ctc Twister? Does it stack?
     
  4. BipolarTemp

    BipolarTemp IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for trying it bill_n_opus. I'd especially like to hear how it works with the problem RTB reported. As for your question, they would stack, just like the Atma's and WWS amp stacks.

    RTB, you mean she actually has to go through the casting animation? Is it that way with the amp from WWS? If so, I'd think more people would have mentioned it but I've never heard of anything like that. If so, that would certainly be an issue. Well regardless, hopefully bill_n_opus can give us some in-game insight. I'm very curious. Thanks for the input guys.
     
  5. Sokar Rostau

    Sokar Rostau IncGamers Member

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    My Season 1 Palazon used Carrion Wind and with a level 8 Zeal it went off fairly regularly without interrupting the flow of her attack, though the mechanics of Zeal may be different to Strafe.
     
  6. BipolarTemp

    BipolarTemp IncGamers Member

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    I would think the mechanics would be very similar, though I'd imagine it would go off more often with strafe because of pierce. Hopefully we'll hear back from bill_n_opus soon.
     
  7. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    They stack.
     
  8. bill_n_opus

    bill_n_opus IncGamers Member

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    Okay, I had about 10 minutes to do some "testing" to see if the CW ctc Twister would have much of a appreciable effect in gameplay.

    This is my experience (limited):

    clvl ** Witchyzon on Hell Players8 in Single Player.

    Ran Lost City for a bit and then Arcane Sanctuary specifically for the straightforward map so most if not all monsters are pretty much in front of you to test the "stun" effect, if any.

    The usual setup for this char:

    Stealskull
    Lionheart Archon Plate
    Upped WWS with Shael (iirc)
    Laying of Hands
    Wartravelers
    Highlord's
    Razortail
    (originally BKWB and Ravenfrost)

    Usual Strafer skill build with max pene, valk, 6 or so pts into Pierce and one pt into Crit Strike or so with 9 pts left over and the usual prereqs.

    With one Carrionwind subbed for the BKWB the 8% ctc Twister goes off pretty regularly. The stun effect is somewhat noticeable ... maybe. I'm a bad judge because I have no experience with Twister having never played Wind Druids.

    For the sake of "testing" with the help of ATMA I decided to "have" two Carrionwinds to test out the 16% ctc and i'll have to say that Twister goes off pretty close to double the 8% surprise, surprise. Of course, with the end of "testing" the second CW will go poof.

    Since it's Eastertime I don't have any time to test with and without Carrionwind for extensive gameplay.

    Having one replacing the BKWB is not a bad trade at all it would seem. You miss the life boost of the BKWB but the CW life steal is double at 6% compared to 3%. At level ** you get 44 extra life with BKWB but you can leech it back faster. You also miss the +1 skills of the BKWB but i'm not that sure you miss it all that bad.

    Replacing the Ravenfrost with two CW's provides great life leech and potentially more safety but you may miss the extra dex, AR and the CBF for sure. We'll see.

    I'll try more testing later on.

    Hope this was helpful.
     
  9. BipolarTemp

    BipolarTemp IncGamers Member

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    Hmmmm. Sounds interesting. I'll have to try it out if I can get my hands on one. Let us know if you do any more testing. Thanks for the results.
     
  10. bill_n_opus

    bill_n_opus IncGamers Member

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    I'm not exactly sure what this means ... after another hour of testing i've come up with a cautious conclusion that I like this ring ... alot.

    Bunch of thought, points, comments ...

    - there is no "casting animation" that I can see. If there is it's not noticeable by me anyways. I haven't noticed any delay in starting the next strafe even when it looks like my last arrow activates a volley of twisters. However, i'll keep checking and i'll report later.

    - twisters orginate from your 'Zon directed to the monster that the strafe volley had activated the ctc twister.

    - stun length is significant in Hell. It does look like approx. .8 secs of hit recover. Stops them in their tracks, has the swirly animation thing over their heads and then they begin advancing again. Note: only the first twister that hits them begins the animation, other twisters that hit them during their hit recovery only pass through them harmlessly. Hit recovery only happens again if they are hit by a twister after advancing towards you/merc/valk again.

    - 8% ctc happens a fair bit. However, as averages go sometimes you get a full volley of twisters that's almost overkill because most of the twisters pass harmless through the monsters since they are already in hit recovery.

    Sometimes you're waiting for a volley that never comes. Dual Carrionwinds at 16% certainly activates up to twice the rate ... but may be unnecessary.

    At the moment, i'm finding that having a Carrionwind/Raven combo is better than 2xCW or 1 CW and BKWB.

    - Taking the Raven out of a ring slot decreases my physical dam by ~ 500-600 pts which can be significant in Hell if I go 2xCW. My AR goes down from ~ 87ish to ~ 85ish to hit most monsters.

    - I took my Witchyzon to the Pits and it works really well there. Twisters travel far enough (~ 10 yards almost) to hit recovery ranged attackers. Twisters also decrease significantly I feel the pressure put upon your front line Valk and merc which has a domino effect.

    The less they are hit means more damage dished out which means more leeching and quicker killing. It prevents hit recovery which potentially may allow you to choose more offensive armor for your merc. Stone is popular partially because of the high def but also because of the 60% fhr. You may possibly get away with another armor for your merc because the twisters lessen the benefit of fhr on your merc since he gets hit less.

    - I just love the way twisters slow the advance of monsters. However, the caveat is that if you really want to give your twisters a chance to hit you have to say within medium range. I found myself moving up a bit just to get closer to monsters to see the twisters hitting them. That may not be a good idea ... especially if you get swamped or get pummelled by ranged at once or you play Single Player and you go stupid and get squashed by the FE bug.

    - I haven't bothered trying to craft some knockback gloves yet but with knockback it looks like an amazing combo. I don't have a Windforce but I can only imagine (well, I could "test" it but i'm too tired right now) that the inherent KB coupled with a CW would have amazing results. That or wear a Giant Skull.

    Hope this helps. Lots of fun too.
     
  11. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    Is there a delay when you fire a normal arrow (or simply not a sequence attack like Strafe)?

    I remember that in 1.09 chance to cast did cause delays, and that in 1.10 timered skills such as Meteor are even worse.
     
  12. Yossarian

    Yossarian IncGamers Member

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    I've been using it for my witchy for about a month now. I actually just took it off the other day as I need to make some equipment changes and it lost out. Crafted some nice KB gloves. It's kinda useless with KB in effect.

    There is no casting animation. They just sort of appear in front of you and spreads out.

    It does stun nice enough in hell, which is nice if something gets past your merc and valk.

    The downside is that (at least for my play) the twisters don't go far enough. You have to be right up bihind your valk to have all the monster effected. I like standing back at least half a screen. From there it only hits the first few monters. If you are near the back of the screen nothing gets hit by the twisters.

    The poison creeper is not usually worth casting past NM. In NM it does well, in Hell it dies first boss back everytime. In NM nothing can heal with it around. SO it's kind of nice.
     
  13. BipolarTemp

    BipolarTemp IncGamers Member

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    Well unfortunate that it is centered around your character, but nice to hear the input anyway. I might have to try it if I get one. Thanks for your help everyone who tested or responded.
     
  14. Bionic

    Bionic IncGamers Member

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    I used a Carrion on one of my first strafers using wws, I didnt really care to much for the twisters, I like the 9ll and decent poison resist it has. The twister is never going to kill anything in hell and I always use a merc and valk to keep the monsters busy.
     

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