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Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

Discussion in 'Classic' started by Xenic, Apr 26, 2008.

  1. Xenic

    Xenic IncGamers Member

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    Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    I have made a Glitch MF Sorc for Hell Mephisto and got it to lvl 75.
    Unfortunately, I unglitched it on an accident and now I have to start over.

    My last sorc was an Orber and she did fine with full Iratha's in hell.
    With all the equipments combined, my sorc had max cold and lightning res.
    And close to max fire and poison res.

    I was thinking of making the exact same character using Orb, but
    most people seem to agree that Blizzard kills faster.

    I can see how Blizzard can kill faster if I am face-to-face with Mephisto and lock him in front of me.
    But, what if, for instance, in an Andy run?
    Because my last sorc couldn't effectively take hits from Andy and her minions,
    I had to run around a lot spamming orb whenever cooldown wore off.
    With Blizzard, however, I don't know how efficient that would be.
    Usually when I run around, monsters follow me and when I cast Orb they run straight through it.
    But Blizzard doesn't seem to work so well like that.
    Blizzard seems to have very very limited range and monsters seem to get out of it rather fast.
    And I can't seem to aim Blizzard well enough to set it right in front of their projected path to inflict maximum potential damage.

    So, can anybody give me some insights on Blizzard vs. Orb in MFing?
    Some pros and cons of each skill would also be appreciated.
    Also, how much stronger does Blizzard get compared to Orb?
    Seems to me Orb is stronger, but obviously I'm missing something out here.

    Thanks a bunch!
     
  2. minizx

    minizx IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    i always thought that orb was alwas better for crowd control then using static and firewall or ts to dispatch the cold immunes but with blizzard gives far more dmg in a smaller area you cast it a few times infront of you then run into it to to lure andy into it then tele round and spam blizzard so and has to walk into it or if you taking on mephy use the moat trick then spam him with blizzard
     
  3. Xenic

    Xenic IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    Is there any good reason why there are significantly more Orbers than Blizzers?
    Other than, of course, Orb looks [email protected][email protected]
     
  4. WarlockCC

    WarlockCC Diablo Classic Moderator

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    Orb has a limited amount of skillpoints before it's maxed, allowing one to also max teleport, which gives you unlimited teleporting. At max power, orb still does enough damage to kill things.
    With blizzard you can get a lot more damage in, as Minizx pointed out, a small area. For this, you will need to sink a whole lot more skillpoints into it though, leaving very few for teleport.
     
  5. Xenic

    Xenic IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    Hm, in that case, I guess I will go with Orb.
    It might redundant making Orber again, but I don't think I can sacrifice Teleport for damage.
     
  6. HegemonKhan

    HegemonKhan IncGamers Member

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    Bliz vs Orb

    bliz vs orb:

    Blizzard:

    pros:

    1. crowd killer
    2. huge damage
    3. most monsters are NOT cold immune
    4. chills (slows) monsters
    5. shatters monsters (cold attack/effect)
    6. can cast and hit beyond barriers, like walls and etc.
    7. easy targetting and control of targeting (read below for explanation)
    *8. ice blast (read further down)*

    7 explained. directly cast on group of monsters for half damage OR cast in front of monsters so they walk into bliz for max damage or for defense cast bliz on self to kill monsters next to u or surrounding u

    7 explained. casting directly on the group:

    its half damage cuz they r in middle of bliz so only have a radius to get out of it and its damage

    7 explained. casting in front of monsters:

    its full damage cuz they r walking into bliz so they will/have to walk the full diameter to clear bliz and take that full diameter of damage since the ai is stupid and doesnt turn around and walk out of bliz.

    8. ice blast skill is a great single target killer. best damage for single targets. max ice blast BEFORE glacial spike!

    skill order and placement:

    **i'd think its best to max bliz, ice blast, glacial pike, cold mast, than last ice bolt or otehr skills**

    (but if some one can do math and figure out whats the actual best skill placement for maximun bliz damage would be welcome)

    cons:

    1. 100 sk pts (80 for bliz n synergies +20 for cold mast). no sk pts for anything else.
    2. cold immune monsters
    3. shatters monsters (cold attack/effect)
    4. longer cast delay than orb
    5. high mana cost for character at low char levels
    6. mana burn monsters
    7. bliz sucks for single targets (but u have ice blast for this)

    orb:

    pros:

    1. crowd killer
    2. single target killer
    3. most monsters r not cold immune
    4. chills (slows) monsters
    5. shatters monsters (cold attack/effect)
    6. shorter cast delay than bliz
    7. can cast orb from safety behind a barrier (but can NOT go through barriers and hit things)(but cuz the ice bolts fly out from the orb u can use it like the hydra skill by using it in BENT "L" tactical hits) and its ice bolts can than hit monters.
    8. only 60 sk pts (40 orb n synergy + 20 cold mast). leaves u with sk pts for other skills
    9. decent damage doing enough to kill monsters in hell cs (more +skills, the more damage)
    10. easy targeting and control of targeting

    cons:

    1. weak-avg damage. slow killing (but +skills can change this). a lot less damage than bliz
    2. shatters monsters
    3. can NOT go through barriers and hit monsters
    4. high mana cost for character at low character levels
    5. cold immune monsters
    6. mana burn monsters

    final thoughts:

    IMO: ultimately, orb is better than blizzard, especially due to the fact it only uses 60 sk pts compared to bliz's 100 sk pts. but otherwise, they are nearly identical for the most part.

    maybe for duels, u need bliz's greater damage since your opponent will stack cold res at 95% though its easier for a human to not get hit by bliz compared to orb's radial ice bolts. but bliz has a longer cast delay..so maybe orb is better for duels despite much lower damge..
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2008
  7. Xenic

    Xenic IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    Wow, Thanks Hegemon.
    That's just what I needed..=]

    Appreciate the information. Very valuable for me and probably for others as well.
    I ended up going with Orb once again.
    After all, I don't need crazy damage. I'm just a glitch MFer..x]
     
  8. Alecz

    Alecz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    So, Hegemon says fully synergized Blizz does more damage than fully synergized Orb. Then why not take 19 points from Ice bolt and put in teleport?

    I mean why do you HAVE to fully synergize blizz? Can'u just leave out ice bolt and some of glacial spike and cold mastery out?

    And the part with Blizz being cast through walls is not true AFAIK. You can only cast in in your line of sight, i.e. if you can shoot an arrow to there, then u can cast blizz there.
     
  9. Monzee

    Monzee IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    For a glitcher I would go with FO. Ive tried FB blizz and orb and the latter is far superior imo in many ways.
     
  10. HegemonKhan

    HegemonKhan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    1a. not putting into ice bolt and glacial spike and instead putting into teleport is probably prefered by most poeple, including me. max blizzard, ice blast, cm (cold mast). than either pump teleport or glacial spike. after u got pts u want into teleport and/or glacial spike, than lastly put pts into ice bolt (but this would be in the char lvl 90's for sk pts for into ice bolt).

    1b. order of skill placement for bliz:

    lvl 01. N/A
    lvl 02. ice bolt lvl 01
    lvl 03. don't use yet
    lvl 04. don't use yet
    lvl 05. don't use yet
    lvl 06. static lvl 01, telekinesis lvl 01, frost nova lvl 01 (1-2 unused sk pts, including 1 from quest)
    lvl 07. don't use yet
    lvl 08. don't use yet
    lvl 09. don't use yet
    lvl 10. don't use yet
    lvl 11. don't use yet
    lvl 12. ice blast lvl 01 (7-8 still unused sk pts, including 1-2 from quests)
    lvl 13. ice blast lvl 02
    lvl 14. ice blast lvl 03
    lvl 15. ice blast lvl 04
    lvl 16. ice blast lvl 05
    lvl 17. ice blast lvl 06
    lvl 18. ice blast lvl 07, glacial spike lvl 01, teleport lvl 01 (6 unused sk pts, including 2 from quests
    lvl 19. ice blast lvl 08, glacial spike lvl 02 (5 unused sk pts, including 2 from quests)
    lvl 20. ice blast lvl 09, glacial spike lvl 03 (4 unused sk pts, including 2 from quests)
    lvl 21. ice blast lvl 10, glacial spike lvl 04 (3 unused sk pts, including 2 from quests)
    lvl 22. ice blast lvl 11, glacial spike lvl 05 (2 unused sk pts, including 2 from quests)
    lvl 23. ice blast lvl 12, glacial spike lvl 06 (1 unused sk pt, including from 2 quests)
    lvl 24. ice blast lvl 13, blizzard lvl 01 (0 unused sk pts, EXcluding from last sk quest)
    lvl 24. glacial spike lvl 07 (if u have the 2 sk pts from last quest) (1 unused sk pt, including from last quest)
    lvl 25. blizzard lvl 02 (0 unused sk pts, EXcluding from last sk quest)
    lvl 25. ice blast lvl 14 (if u have the 2 sk pts from last quest) (0 unused sk pts, INcluding from last quest)
    lvl 26. blizzard lvl 03 (0 unused sk pts, including from all norm sk quests)
    lvl 27. blizzard lvl 04
    lvl 28. blizzard lvl 05
    lvl 29. blizzard lvl 06
    lvl 30. CM lvl 01 (0 unused sk pts, EXcluding 1-2 from den-rad quests in nm=nightmare)
    lvl 30. blizzard lvl 07 (if u done den quest from nm)
    lvl 30. glacial spike lvl 08 (if u done rad quest from nm)
    lvl 31. blizzard lvl 07 (0 unused sk pts, including 2 from den-rad quests in nm)
    lvl 32. blizzard lvl 08

    etc.... max blizzard first, next ice blast or CM (cold mast), lastly glacial spike and/or teleport. if u have more sk pts left than rest into ice bolt.

    2. ya i think your right that bliz cant cast on other side of walls
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    i agree with monzee. i prefer orb as well, even if its damage is on the low side in last areas of hell diffculty without +skills.
     
  11. barty

    barty IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    yup, my orb glitcher works a charm, with a 300 dmg orb, LOL. same build as aku's, cept i use hawk mail :p cbf and 90 cr is GG vs meph and his blue orb ...
    skill setup for me :
    20 orb 20 cold mast 19-20 tele 12-13 static 5-7 ice bolt* or whatever the syn
    works sooo good its not funny. also works gg as a hell rush sorcy, hehe.
    for meph i dont even moat him, i just stand just out of arms reach, orb/stat/stat orb.
    this greatly speeds up killing, trust me. it also rapes all of andy's minions. same idea as
    b4, orb to slow, then stat/ stat /orb then they all dead in a full game :) OH! and andy seems harder than meph to kill, probably because andy will chase u quicker and moves alot more than meph... orb/stat/tele best setup imo for andy and meph. some swear by fire ball but, pretty dangerous with all the fire immunes near andy. my .02
    edit: by adding static to the equation, you greatly increase your killing speed
    a range of 10-12 yards is all you need, and u will never regret having it, its so gg, reminds of the other most pwerful skill in game CE. why not use it if you can :)??
     
  12. HegemonKhan

    HegemonKhan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    agrees

    static with range is a GOOD way to cheat around orb's low damage.

    static and orb work great for meph and andy areas.

    but in HELL CS it at least seems less effective (need much more static casts). i'm not sure if the high lit resist monsters in hell cs effect static though so maybe i'm jsut imagining things. its probably just due to the fact they have much more life so it takes a few more statics to get them low enough for only a few orbs to kill. this is in an 8 person game, though.

    *static with range (more pts into static) needs FCR, though with a rusher u should already have high FCR for its build anyways.
     
  13. barty

    barty IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    actually, orb/c mast / ice bolt[or whatever syn] + high lvl static can own cs :p, blizz may kill faster but, then again orb/stat is more defensive than blizz/max syns. i dunno, depends on play style. i personally have more fun on a strong orber/stat in cs than blizz :p. just putting that out there, .02. btw ithink 70 fcr is fine for stat/orb, easy to attain as well [ wait maybe its 80 fcr, think the breakpoint might be 78.. not sure]
    edit: so whoever started this thread , about needing to choose, depends on ur play style :), more offensive go blizz, defensive [better rusher is orb imo] is orb/stat. pretty much need to have orb paired with static to have it be truly effectivein hell cs, imo.
     
  14. Alecz

    Alecz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    The FCR is 63 actually, and the next one is 105.

    For the purpose of moating meph, Blizz is better IMO, he dies soo fast.

    For rushing... Orb is better, cause it kills more monsters and protects the rushees better. In normal, on my blizz sorc I use frost nova, cause it's more effective than blizz: no cast delay, so I can spam, and kills monsters easier. I guess if I had orb i wouldn't need frost nova.

    This is probably a "never-ending" argument that ultimately boils down to play style and personal preference. With Orb is easier to kill more targets, and has more damage than blizz in the "sweet spot" (where the orb explodes), but blizz can be put anywhere and u can have 2 at the same time.
     
  15. HegemonKhan

    HegemonKhan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    (oops, i delected top part of your quote so it didnt script it right so i improvised:p)

    "This is probably a "never-ending" argument that ultimately boils down to play style and personal preference. With Orb is easier to kill more targets, and has more damage than blizz in the "sweet spot" (where the orb explodes), but blizz can be put anywhere and u can have 2 at the same time." -alecz

    my post on page one pretty much sums it up as well as your above quote does.

    the ending of my post:

    Final Thoughts:

    IMO: ultimately, orb is better than blizzard, especially due to the fact it only uses 60 sk pts compared to bliz's 100 sk pts. but otherwise, they are nearly identical for the most part.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    sorry i was lazy/tired when i wrote this in my earlier (first) post

    what i ment:

    if blizzard is to be maxed it takes 100 skill pts

    20 blizzard, 20 ice bolt, 20 ice blast, 20 glacial spike, 20 cold mast
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2008
  16. Alecz

    Alecz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    Well, I only wanted to say that you DON'T HAVE TO spend 100 sk pts on blizz. However, your statement basically says that Blizz can AWAYS get stronger, while Orb reaches its limit earlier.

    So I don't agree that Orb is better cause it needs 60 sk pts to reach its max compared to Blizz's 100 pts.
    Orb is better cause of its mechanics IMO.


     
  17. Lorg

    Lorg IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    There is no need to moat anything. So stand right next to memph or andy and it tries to melee you -> iratha + twich and 30/20 shield needs just 1 in static of one does not want so spend more on it.

    Personally, prefer Orbers for memph & andy runs... The maxed teleport is very convenient especially at ladder reset and no map hack...
     
  18. Corrupted

    Corrupted IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    In terms of MF'ing I think the answer is simple. When you're playing SC you want to maximize your efficiency. That is done by picking Blizzard because your runs will be faster with Blizzard.
     
  19. Lorg

    Lorg IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    Don't you just hate to pot while teleporting? Or can u really restrain yourself and not put everything to synnergies with blizzer and invest some to teleport ^^

    Killing speed is almost the same. Besides, atleast i do my memph andy runs, while others cs -> does not matter if blizz is fractionally faster. Both can static like mad?

    Maybe HC has warped my brains and i just love the ability to teleport right after been hit with manaburn :crazy:
     
  20. Alecz

    Alecz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Can't Decide: Blizzard or Frozen Orb

    Usually I don't mind using pot, as most of the time I have 4-8 mana pots on the belt.

    However, Lorg's argument makes sense. You can teleport right after you lost all your mana (due to mana burn) if the teleport cost is low enough.

    Of course you could put 20 in teleport and never end up fully synergising Blizz, but I still think you could so a good deal of damage. I noticed very little damage difference towards the end.
     

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