Can the Klingons beat the Borgs or The Republic?

dirkdig

Diabloii.Net Member
me neither, I've only seen about 5 or 6 episodes of all of star trek put together. My mom was a fan though so I know the basic characters in the next generation, and I've seen most of the movies, etc.

The most recent one was terrible, it just sucked... generations was alright, and first contact rocked!
 

Professor Blasto

Diabloii.Net Member
Ash Housewares said:
you can freaking run up to them and unplug them, they have a myriad of weaknesses that will always cause them to lose yet they have the ability to recover endlessly so next week we can whoop 'em again
I'm telling you, the Cylons will pwn them. They don't have plugs. Just killing machines, yes, the killing machine personified. Add smarts to the mix, and maybe smarties, too, you get the Shaft of robot races.
 

Savage

Diabloii.Net Member
Lord_Shinnok said:
Automated Responce: Bond > All
Automated Response: response is spelt "response". :D

The Borg of TNG would (and did) kick all asses. Then they introduced the queen borg and it just went downhill from there. TNG was awesome because first Q shows the Enterprise crew the Borg and basically says "you are f***ed if these guys make it into the Alpha Quadrant" and then of course the Borg send one (1) cube to Earth and it takes out 40 something Starships. Basically the Borg were the ultimate enemy.

Then in First Contact they introduced the Borg Queen who of course turns out to be their downfall and then in Voyager one measley little starship beats the Borg like 50 times.

I guess what I'm trying to say is Darth Vader beats everyone.
 

Dredd

D3 Off Topic Moderator
Savage said:
Then in First Contact they introduced the Borg Queen who of course turns out to be their downfall and then in Voyager one measley little starship beats the Borg like 50 times.
I didn't care for the queen idea either - Alice Krige was awesome (and creepy) in that role though.

Savage said:
I guess what I'm trying to say is Darth Vader beats everyone.
... except that one whiny little wuss who would much rather go (quote) "into Toschi station to pick up some power converters". If I was his uncle, he'd get his power converter upside the head. :lol:
 

Necrolestes

Diabloii.Net Member
Resistance is futile?

Rather than discuss the merits of the Klingons versus the Republic, I'd like to address the issue of the Borg versus the Galactic Empire. There are many similarities between the two (drones/clones, Borg Queen/Emperor, Cube/Star Destroyer, Locutus/Vader, ideology of assimilation/ideology of disintegration)

First, let's discuss the merits of the Borg over the Galactic Empire:

The Borg can adapt to most every situation but in some instances, adaptation wasn't enough (to adapt, they have to assimilate and they couldn't assimilate the advanced organic technology of Species 8472). The Borg may be capable of assimilating a Sith (individual drones would be affected by the Force but the Collective is so decentralized that the Force influence would be diluted to the point of ineffectiveness; the Borg may be of one mind but it is such a powerful mind that Force mind tricks would be, well, futile) and thus learn the ways of the Force (it's unlikely the Borg could use it as a weapon, though...since not all beings in the SW universe can use the Force, not all drones would be Force sensitive so it is more likely the Collective would attempt to devise a technology that could defeat the Force...given Palpatine's and Thrawn's success in that area, the Borg should have no problem creating such a technology).

The Borg cube is the equivalent of a Star Destroyer with two exceptions: the Star Destroyer is heavily reliant on its crew complement while, in theory at least, a cube can operate with a single unimatrix complement of 7. The second exception is that the Borg devise weapons to defeat armor, shields, and weapons all at the same time...SW weapons are more specialized (blasters to defeat armor and shields, ion cannons to defeat weapons). Specialized weapons do not have a great advantage over the Collective, as they would adapt to the specific situations rapidly (the one exception to that would be the Death Star's superlaser; energy of that magnitude couldn't be defeated by the Collective without their prior knowledge of an equal energy source to power shields capable of withstanding such a blast).

Borg drones and stormtroopers tend to "think" alike (i.e. they follow orders and exhibit little variation in that pattern). However, drones have three massive advantages over any stormtrooper: first, drones adapt; second, drones regenerate; and third, drones assimilate. When an enemy adapts and regenerates, you know you're in a world of hurt; when they also assimilate, you realize the awful truth that you are royally screwed (you lose troops to either attacks or assimilations, which shore up enemy forces while depleting your own).

Transwarp technology is vastly superior to hyperspace technology for one reason: navigation. There are certain hyperspace routes that one in the SW universe must know and travel, lest they run into an asteroid or supernova. Transwarp doesn't have that limitation (the Borg somehow know exactly where to drop out of transwarp; understand that I do not refer to the many thousands of transwarp corridors established by the massive transwarp hubs but only to the transwarp drives available on all Borg vessels).

Perhaps the greatest advantage the Borg have over the Empire, at least in terms of technology, is the utilization of antimatter. Antimatter is RARE in the SW universe but prevalant in the ST universe. Antimatter makes a potent superweapon, one that the Borg could use against the Death Star (it wouldn't defeat the superlaser but if the superstructure around the laser were destroyed, this would be a moot point).

Now, let's discuss the merits of the Empire over the Borg:

The Galactic Empire, corrupt though it may be, is inventive. They constantly and consistently come up with new super weapons (the Death Star, the Sun Crusher, the World Devastators) and though the Borg can adapt to all of them, they cannot do so all at once (in the case of the Death Star, the Borg couldn't adapt to the superlaser's destructive power without adding power to their shields and unless they learned to harness the Omega particle when I wasn't watching, that's not going to happen).

The Empire also has millions of stormtroopers that could, in theory, be recloned and added to the army. The Borg can only assimilate more troops and if the Empire adopted a scorched earth policy, the Borg would have no worlds worth assimilating, thus keeping the Collective's army at a set size. The Empire would gladly destroy a planet with stormtroopers and drones on it so any assimilated stormtroopers would be blown to kingdom come before they could officially join the Borg. That's not to say that the Borg wouldn't hestitate to destroy clone worlds, but it is more likely they'd attempt assimilation first, thus giving the Empire an opportunity to either mobilize the clones against the drones or, again, simply wasting the planet, denying the Collective a new supply of drones.

One tactical advantage of the Borg over the Empire is also a liability. Antimatter is scarce in the SW universe and the Borg are fairly dependent on antimatter to power their warships. They might not be able to generate more in a galaxy that doesn't have a ready supply (I suppose the Borg could replicate antimatter, but not knowing this for a fact, I would instead say the Borg would conserve what antimatter they had, thus forcing a few shortages that the Empire could use to their tactical advantage, provided they used hit-and-run tactics).

Now here we are at the end, having discussed the strengths of both Empire and Collective and you'll note that I haven't come to a definitive conclusion. The reason why? Vader. He is the unknown quantity (the Borg's closest counterpart, Locutus, was reclaimed before he could have ever travelled to the SW universe to assimilate the Collective) that could turn the tide of battle to the Empire's favor or cost them the war entirely (if assimilated, the Collective would be absolutely unstoppable; as Vader is mostly technological anyway, those ubiquitous nanoprobes would be right at home).

I don't have a definitive answer for you but I can say that the Borg would probably prevail but only after a long, protracted war (after all, the Borg have to travel to a universe, so they can't afford to send everything they have because they have a homeland to protect in the ST universe; the Empire has the home-field advantage as they ARE protecting their homeland).
 

Anakha1

Banned
Given that the Borg have already assimilated ass-loads of Klingons, I'm gonna go with the Mechamen.
 

Bortaz

Banned
Klingons win.

As to the Cylons: They couldn't even beat Ben Cartright and a bunch of big-haired prettyboys in the 70s-80s.
 

jimmyboy

Diabloii.Net Member
If we give a group of very dumb people to the Borg to assimimate, will it not make the Borg dumber?
 

Necrolestes

Diabloii.Net Member
We seek perfection

The Borg do not assimilate inferior species. Case in point: the Kazon (a Voyager enemy; in one episode, Seven of Nine tells one of the crew that the Kazon were unworthy of assimilation).
 

maccool

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the Romulans, not the Klingons had the first cloaking device. Common misconception based on the Trek movies.

"Balance of Terror", 1966. Great episode.

Kirk can't be stopped. You know this.
 

Crispyknight

Diabloii.Net Member
Necrolestes, a fine evaluation. With one glaring error. Star Trek's universe surpassed simple laser/blaster technology centuries previous. It was well established that simple laser weapons and projectile weapons could not penetrate the navigational shields of a Galaxy class starship, let alone their main shields. Phaser technology is as far beyond laser/blaster tech as a modern computer is to an abacus.
The only _possible_ exception to this is the superlaser on the DS and DS2, as well as the Eclipse line of SSDs.

I now need a shower. And must molest my wife. Excuse me.

/dork off
 

Necrolestes

Diabloii.Net Member
May the Force be with you

Thank you, Crispy, for the compliment. But you'll note that I said that the specialized weapons of the SW universe couldn't affect the Borg (paragraph 3) with, as you mentioned, the possible exception of the superlaser. Therefore, as you stated, simple lasers/blasters are useless against the Collective.
 

Dirty_Zulu

Diabloii.Net Member
I would say Romulan bird-of-prey are superior to Klingons since in the last Trek movie, Picard's clone commanded a Romulan warbird. The Enterprise couldn't even scratch that ship.

Come to think of it, the Enterprise always get's whooped. They're like version 8 now since each of the captain managed to destroy a few.
 

Steve_Kow

Banned
The Borg adapt a defense to whatever they're attacked with. They're vulnerable to begin with, but once they lose a few drones they develop a defense. So you can kill a few with a knife--but only a few.
 

Steve_Kow

Banned
What makes you say that?

Their shields have stopped Photon Torpedos before. That's basically a bullet loaded with antimatter.
 
Top