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Can teh bear lld?

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by BreakThruX, Feb 15, 2004.

  1. BreakThruX

    BreakThruX IncGamers Member

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    Can teh bear lld?

    Could a druid transformed into a bear using maul be a good llder? In 1.9 they were real nice. People had a 5-6 shael'd weapon and all max equipment....this was sc tho.
     
  2. Sip

    Sip Banned

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    If you can use shaels, how is it lld? that group would start at level 29. I suppose you could make a good bear, but i wouldnt use a maul. Its Very slow and opens you up to attack. You need a fast 1 hand wep and a shield. I'd use something like this:

    Level 20 Low lvl dueling bear druid:
    45 max helm
    60 max armor
    30 max bsod
    15 max cleglaws sword
    deaths gloves/belt
    angelics ring+ammy
    Sanders boots
     
  3. BreakThruX

    BreakThruX IncGamers Member

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    Well back in this site called 76legit.com a dueling community they could go to level 29...and by maul i meant the skill maul. :)
     
  4. Baranor

    Baranor IncGamers Member

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    Below level 20, the fastest you're gonna get with attack speed is about 10 frames per attack. That speed in my opinion is too slow for PvP, nuless you do massive damage. unfortuantely, at such low levels thats something you won't do with a Werebear. You could potentially go to 9 frames with a horadric staff, but the weapon sucks and you can't socket it so I would not advise it.


    So, here ya go:

    -----------------------------------------------------
    The Rogue Werebear

    A level 20 7 FPA werebear who even stands a decent chance of killing things. He's only suited for PK though and not for duelling since he lacks a shield, but he's got more under his hood than what people expect.

    Bears and wolves in shapeshifted form can use missile weapons to whack people. The Burzia-Bear and Burzia Wolf are common examples of this. In the low level range, the Werebear lacks any decent offensive weaponry in the form of the extreme IAS requirements. I know that that punk Seise trusts on his General's Tan Do Li Ga, but it's one of the lamer weapons in existance. Besides, he needs massive IAS to make that thing work (with 50% IAS he's down to an 11 framer )

    The answer to the question is simple really:
    Rogue's Bow
    Composite Bow
    Two-Hand Damage: (7-10 To (12.6-14.4) (9.8-11.2 Avg)
    Required Level: 20
    Required Strength: 25
    Required Dexterity: 35
    Base Weapon Speed: [-10
    +40-60% Enhanced Damage(varies)
    +100% Damage to Undead
    30% Deadly Strike*
    50% Increased Attack Speed
    +60 to Attack Rating
    All Resistances +10

    As you can see, the damage is crap, and stays crap, even with a 15 max. However, two things make this weapon really shine:
    50% IAS on the weapon
    30% deadly strike.

    With 10% extra IAS from bloodfists, you bring your weapon down to 7 fps, the fastest attainble for a werebear at that level.
    30% deadly strike grants you the chance to do double damage once every 3 blows, so on averge once every second, as ho hmum hum ho! you whack 3 times per second. Since you only need bloodfists for the extra speed, you can use deaths sash, and max armor and helmet. Angelics coupled with say CK boots for dexterity, or better yet Sanders Boots for some dex, some Str and LOTS of AR (not to mention the fastest run walk at that level) cover the dex requirement for this build. An ethereal 4-socket goth plate is in fact fine, as you can actually use the high defense of a Werebear for a chance.

    Skills:
    Fairly straightforward:
    Max Maul for the level (so thats level 9 maul for 140% ED), and vary between lycantrophy and Werebear as you see fit. However, the first point of Werebear offers a solid 50% ED, and after that its 7% per skill point. I would suggest investing in Lycantrophy instaed, for more life.

    You see, this build has one big advantage over many other builds: The ability to whitstand damage. You can merrily chuck lots of damage charms into the inventory of this baby and still have pretty good life, as the lycantrophy bonus at this level, added up with the bonus of Werebear, is substantial (with a normal PA you can have up to 125% life added) so any given life charm counts double and a bit. This means that angelics alone yield an impressive 250+ life.

    since the build requires no dexs and only little Str (imagine a light plate with 3 sockets instaed of a 4-socket goth plate) you're gonna be spending most of your points into Vit as well. I havent craeted this thing yet (wanted to save it for a special occasion) but I guess that 1000 life, 7 fpa and a nice amount of ED per blow with 30% chance of doing double damage will do the trick pretty well
     
  5. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    He's only suited for PK though and not for duelling since he lacks a shield, but he's got more under his hood than what people expect.

    I'm wondering if the importance of blocking isn't overrated. I think it's still a thing that's there from 1.09, and it's staying because of the anti-charger builds that are around. The new anti-blocklock feature has made blocking less important in a lot of duels IMHO.

    Take for instance a kicker assassin. You'll block one attack, and the others are going through your block anyway. Same for a zealot, a double swiger / thrower and an amazon. I'd rather have the life than the block against those builds I guess.

    For the slower attackers (read: chargers), blocking still does quite good. The build you described above will do horrible versus charges, but I wouldn't like to meet one with my fireball sorc (and if my kicker would still be alive, he wouldn't like it too :D ).
     
  6. BtK-radth

    BtK-radth IncGamers Member

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    sc dueling = no pots
    hc dueling = really fast hits wit good dmg or 1 hit kos
    i was watching my roomate sc duel and there is absolutly no similarity.
     
  7. Baranor

    Baranor IncGamers Member

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    Stand with your back against a wall! No KB means charger gets only one hit, and he wont kill you with that.

    Easy-peasy
     
  8. GrnEggsNHam

    GrnEggsNHam IncGamers Member

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    Haha I finally check the forums after about a week and Barry is back!!! :), hey I am sure a good werebear can be built for LLD. Really with the right equipment just about any build can be decent if not good. Blocking is not overrated at all, especially when faceing chargers. If you want to to duel and by duel I mean actually dueling every chance you get not picking and chooseing. If you do the latter you might not get a fight even if you wait all day... Anyways blocking is a good thing to have of course and unless you are going to have 2k life sub lvl 21 I would suggest being able to avoid 3/4 of your oppenents attacks :).
     
  9. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    I would suggest being able to avoid 3/4 of your oppenents attacks

    You won't block that much against speed oriented builds. The anti-blocklocking feature will only let you block if you finished your last block animation, and some extra frames (not shure on the extra frames).

    So you'll be lucky if you block half of the attacks. But the dex requirement is still as steep. I'm saying that I'd rather put those dex points in vit, because against fast hitting chars it will be worth more than the block IMHO.

    This is for a werebear, that is not a fast blocker, but gains large ammounts of life for every point in vit. Maybe I didn't make that clear in my previous post.

    Blocking is not overrated at all, especially when faceing chargers.

    Against chargers, you'll have great benefits of block, as you'll actually get your 75% worth of blocking. I'm just saying that you don't allways get your 75% block.




    Additional question: What is the range of a bow when wielded by a bear? I doubt it's range 5, which would allow you to strike before a snap charger hits (mauls are range 4 I think), but it would be cool.
     
  10. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    Couldnt you make a level 9 werebear using the Khalim's Flail quest item? It has no restrictions of any sort and has 50% IAS I believe. Plus its a flail and those things are darn fast as it is. This way you could still use a shield.
     
  11. PsYcHo.u[N]

    PsYcHo.u[N] IncGamers Member

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    i was just gonna say that but you beat me to it! :grrr:
    i saw a bear usin one..he attacked so fast..
     
  12. HelzCaretaker

    HelzCaretaker IncGamers Member

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    yes they can, in fact I had a lvl 16 using khalims. If its still like it was in .09 then you can simply pa the druid as far as you can and then get a lvl 1 char with khalims flail and kill it and loot the flail into your wpn slot. My 16 druid did around 500 dmg iirc and had like 1.2k life or so. He was able to beat mostly any charger pre 21 since they had no clue what they were doing. Basically my druid was all max dmg gear, bfists, death belt, angelics, ck's. If I went 21 I would go this way, max helm/armor/shield/khalims with rogues on switch. A lot of max dmg charms and rest small sust hopefully you'd have enough fhr/sharps/fines to get 48% fhr (only 18 above what bfists give you). Basically you can fight anything except a zealot, reason why I say so is no matter what wpn you have on you're going to be blocklocked or just getting smacked too hard to really do anything but take the hits and pots.

    This build isn't very good at getting kills in lld since a) you have to charge up your dmg and b) your dmg isn't that high anyways. This build generally will annhilate any ts assn or pure charger but not guarentee you an ear.

    Now at 29 the 6 shael dimensional or crowbill wpn with basically rest of the gear the same works very well since there is a big difference between 7-8 fps and 4-6 attack (forgot what speed is exactly).

    Hope this helps.
     
  13. MintSauce

    MintSauce IncGamers Member

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    anyone know the break points when using khalims? basically do I need deahts gloves, or can I use blood fists please :)
     
  14. Sip

    Sip Banned

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    The Lamest and best part about dueling transformed druids is the fact that they stop at 1 life and are potentially invincible for a moment. This leaves lots of time to save/exit if you havent already. This happens most of the time unless you are attacked with tons more damage than you have life. You probably wouldnt be the one dying with so much life though.

    If i wanted to make a pure pker, I think I'd get an extremely high damage 2 hand wep. Perhaps an ethereal bonesnap...maybe they are useful for something besides chargers. Not sure about the speed on it, but with twitch armor and deaths gloves/belt combo, you might get a decent attack speed along with a BUTTLOAD of damage. Lets see...hows this sound?

    Ethereal snap+20%ed jewel
    60% ed helm
    20% ed twitch
    deaths gloves/belt
    sanders boots
    angelics ring/ammy

    Max maul, 1 wb, 1 lyc, rest oak sage. Not sure what the damage on this beast would be, but with a maul so good, it sounds promising.
     
  15. HelzCaretaker

    HelzCaretaker IncGamers Member

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    with khalims bfists gets you to the breakpt, deaths sash is vital imo for the can't be frozen.

    For pking a werebear would be a very bad idea. 1st off unless you monster charge you'll never get ur full maul dmg going so that lowers your dmg potential. 2nd of all druids aren't that fast assns get bos, barbs get increased run/walk skill, sorc's get teleport, paladins get charge. 3rd druid's attack speed in wereform is determined by the wpn, outside ias has little effect.

    Basically pre 30 druids are not very good killers. They are very hard to kill as well my 16 druid stood up to many 21 chargers and yes they did hurt. Druids are more fun then a lot of other builds though.
     
  16. Phantom_Man

    Phantom_Man IncGamers Member

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    By all means, make a 29 Werebear. You'll have tons of duels from all of the crappy 24-34 chargers.

    Here's my guys exact eq., with the jewels exaggerated a bit.

    Gravity-Man
    Level:29
    Main Skill(s): Werebear, Maul, Attack
    Helm:3 Socket Mask(3 15 Max)
    Armor:Twitchroe(4-14 Max[Yes, that's actually my jewel])
    Weapon:6 socket Crystal Sword(6 Shaels) - You'll get 5 attack per second.
    Shield:Whitstan(15 Max)
    Boots:I think I have on Sander's.
    Belt:Death's
    Gloves:Bloodfists
    Rings:2x Angelic
    Amulet:Angelic
    Charms:As many Fine/Sharps as you can get. I have 5 7-10 Max GCs, and some 2-3 Max SCs.
    Fake Weapon:Steeldriver

    Keep your Steeldriver out if you want people to fear you. If you want people to call you a 'Noob', then keep out your real gear.

    Basically Vs. a charger, the strategy is, take a hit, juv, and Maul them until they hit the '5' key. The most a charger has ever done to me is 800 in 1 hit. And with 1.1k life, it's not bad.

    When Mauling them(You have to realize they the basically can't do anything here), get Maul charged, then switch to Attack. The Maul damage and stun will stay for 20 seconds(IIRC), and you won't be hemorraging mana.

    To avoid the first charge, try using the terrain. Those weird puddles and bushes can lure them close to you, so you have the pre-emptive.

    I cannot stress enough the importance of Oak Sage. Whereas mine is only level 1, and only adds 175 life, people have this instinct to go after them. Get your oak near you, 2 out of 3 times people will try to kill it. Burn them.

    Vs. a Kicksin: You probably won't win. It's not really worth your time either. Every kicksin I've ever dueled told me they needed to use their juvs as mana, but I took quite a bit of damage in the process. While you are faster than them, they don't seem to ever really get hit.

    Don't fight 27 Conc barbs. Realistically, if they're any good, you can't win.

    Hope I helped. :lol:

    Phantom- :drink:
     
  17. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Well, in 0.9 I knew this guy over at the HC forums (don't remember the name) who used a Bear to PK ppl. He used The General's Tan Do Li Ga (which is relatively fast, and does nice damage). The slow is whicked, but as he did PK, and his opponents weren't playing it fair all the time he didn't mind much.

    In other cases, upgraded Khalim's is nice, but does terribly little damage in the end.

    It is possible to make a VLLD bear.

    Using a 5-6 socketed shaeled weapon is kick-***. In 0.9, best weapon was 4 x Shael, 2 x ED/IAS (if you wanted 4-frame maul and still prioritized highest possible damage at that speed with a shield.

    Repeating Crossbow has a pretty low Base Speed, but I think the exceptional version has a bit more (going to look that up, too lazy right now and my memory fails me). That should offer a solid speed, and 4-frames ain't impossible.

    I experimented with a level 9 bear once, which turned out quite alright, I might try him online someday if I decide too...
     
  18. BreakThruX

    BreakThruX IncGamers Member

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    I remember this guy he had: a perfect ed crowbill with 6 sockets (15 ed) and he put 6 shaels, perfect string, back when there was 25 max jewels the guy had a 87 max armor, a perfect peasent crown with a 24 max cause it had 24 life replenish, a dual 6 leech ring, LOTS of sweet *** charms,he had 12 points in heart of wolverine since it was sc but that was the "amazing" gear for the most part. I'd suggest a dimensional blade instead of a crystal sword or a crowbill. This guy did: 141-1765 damage. (His stats were posted on a site)
     
  19. NightShade

    NightShade IncGamers Member

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    Seise told me this build iirc.

    21

    Eth Generals + max ( close to 100 dmg on these things socketed iirc)
    Deaths sash+Gloves
    Angelical "bling"
    Max mask
    Twitch
    Bsod + max jewels
    Sanders boots



    Basically You hold down the button and maul with a decent physical damage attack that slows them to hell......Cheap but effective.
     
  20. Cleglaw_Himself

    Cleglaw_Himself IncGamers Member

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    I have dueled a couple of decent druids in my time, the best of which was lvl 22. This might be what he must have used, as my 18 charger could not put much of a dent in his life, despite being the best charger I ever built (1200 listed max, using Azurewrath). He attacked very fast, and ran very fast.
    There was another druid I faced in lvl 9 duels. His damage in werebear form seemed freakish. I believe he used a 2 handed 6socket pike with max jewels, deaths gloves/belt, max mask, etc.
     

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