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Can someone comment my ideas for my summon necro?

Discussion in 'PvP' started by MrNecro, Aug 29, 2006.

  1. MrNecro

    MrNecro Banned

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    Can someone comment my ideas for my summon necro?

    Dudes I found some other solution against ww barb with life tap for my necro. Listen up.

    If you have item with thorns aura + another item with thorns = they stack. So if you have edge and bramble and andy's face = level 38 thorns = 1710% dmg returned.
    This works on 1/10 effectiviness = 171. Imagine the barb has 75% dmg reductions (which is already a weird build, but let it be). Amplified dmg gives -100% dmg returned. And life tap gives 50% less. Because life leech is reduced through pennalty you accieve around 8%


    -171-100+75+50+8 = -138 dmg returned

    The important thing is: His life tap is useless.... if the barb doesn't have life tap or huge dmg reduce the situation gets even better!

    Right?
     
  2. pedu

    pedu IncGamers Member

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    You really want this to work? :laugh:

    Anyways, in player vs player the efficency might be 1/10. But if he hits walls, prisons or minions this isnt the case because they arent "players", they are monsters. Even further demolishing barbs. Am i right?

    This is all counting on the barb actually being dumb enough to ww through walls, prisons or minions while being iron maidened... so, no need for snappy barb commments. Pure theory.
     
  3. MrNecro

    MrNecro Banned

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    Yes you are right, however this was a worst case scenario.


    Yes pure theory
     
  4. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    Let's take a real fact. If damage returned is at minus, either you take damage but do not return it, or the barbarian is healing.

    Also, versus summons, I've never, ever died to any summons. Or well, once I did due to timing my whirling just at the instant my lifetap ran out. But anything except that I've beaten summoners to the bone.

    It doesn't matter how much damage returned you got, you will not kill the barbarian.

    Also, Andy's face doesn't give Thorns aura. +All Skills have no effect on "Aura when equipped". Actually, nothing has effect on those. So you're stuck with lvl 36 Thorns.

    Also, even if you negate the Lifetap, you're still stuck with using Amp, so you cannot really kill the barbarian, as he can leap your summons and zerk you. That's where you plan ends.

    The only necromancer that gives a BvC trouble would be a Boner, with no competition or doubt.

    In the example, the barbarian was Amplify Damage'd to cripple his DR%. The Damage returned would come from bramble + edge.
     
  5. MrNecro

    MrNecro Banned

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    Dont see this as something that I am against you or something:

    With discussion things get better!

    Take a good look: the minus is damage returned to the barb, so if its minus than its good for the necro.

    I understand that tacktics get important here, however I am just planning to let hit you a minion during you ww. But forget about tacktics here! Pure theory! The thing = when a summoner only uses only bramble--> my trick doesn't work at all!

    Well there is the discussion about. If you hit me with 1k dmg (high ww and high dmg with 1/6 pvp penalty) then i give you back at least 1.4k (in case you have a high physical resistance). Well if you are a really good barb you have 7,7 k life. One skelleton has 9,8k life. So... I have a higher chance to win. Specially when you hit several skelletons.

    Thanks that is usefull information.

    tacktics and were not talking about a bone necro.


    Hmm it was not quite an example> it was the worst case scenario. I think in fact that in practical its better. What amplified damage does = -100 physical resistance (to give this + you need damage reduced by XX%. Why diablo didn't called this physical resistance is weird for me.

    The damage returned is in fact physical damage. So I think all rules can be applied.

    I think I just have to try this out! However I need your comments on it!
     
  6. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    If you return an amount of damage that is NOT positive, no damage is done. It is called healing then.

    Except that when you hit minions the PvP penalty does not exist. I can assure you, things like this have been tried before, with no success.

    We are talking about a character that can beat a BvC. A boner can do that. No other necromancer should pose any threat to a BvC.

    You see, you _return_ 165% of the damage, but that's before any DR%. Also, Amplify damage is a _bad_ idea, you should rather use IM.

    However, it won't still work. You will _not_ return enough damage to kill the barb.

    Also Amplify damage, DR% and Life Tap cannot simply be added the calculation like that.

    And no, not even tactics can make a barb die to his own zerks, due to it being magical damage. So Zerk makes your whole build into ashes. Now add up Howl to scatter your minions each time you stop. As they're skeletons, you cannot possibly resummon them during the duel. Now add up, for example, a Sanctuary Aura to knock back the skeletons. Then use Leap to separate the necro. That will end up with your skeletons running and being knocked back the whole time when the barb zerks you to death.

    Or, for even a better result, the barb can simply use 2x Dooms, which will cripple your skeletons' IAS, making the damage they deal into ****. Then he can zerk you to cause a Volcano to pop up under you do stun you. Then he can keep on zerking to keep the volcanos under your feet. Also, the fire from torch can/will stun you.
     
  7. MrNecro

    MrNecro Banned

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    This is called doing difficult. And you know it. Makes you a bit weak. But ok....165% damage returned = +165% dmg, damage reductoin = -75% dmg, Amplified dmg = +100% dmg, lifetap = -50% dmg, life leech = -8% dmg.


    +165+100-75-50-8 = +132% dmg returned

    Now you happy?

    Yes this is a pitty :(

    Thats what we have to find out. The problem of you is: If I stack some revives in my stack they will keep standing right on the place where I put them. And if you attack me you have 1/30 change to hit me or my merc because your damage is devided over 65 minions.

    dude amplified damage is great in this case. I already explained why.


    This is true! But your life tap doesn't work anymore.

    Please show me how it should be calculated AND ofc I need some references.

    It is great that bezerk = magical dmg that means that life tap doesn't work anymore. And howl.... well the mages still attack under the influence of terror. And when they run away ..or for the knockback..... I just recast my teleport...

    And about hte volcano trick... well I already tested this.....but stun doesnt work that long on me so i teleport on a new spot.

    The thing here = I am discussing tackticks here. .... and that was not my purpose.....

    My really concern = the mindblast from the ww sin.
     
  8. pedu

    pedu IncGamers Member

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    But he leaps a couple of times and shatters the minion stack, while you cant move because your in fhr animation, he then proceeds to telezerk you.

    I kinda dont like these "if you do this, i do that and then you do that and i stand on my head" arguments.
    But anyways... Straight answer for a straight question:

    Would it hurt the barb if he hitted a minion/merc/wall/prison (without zerk) while under the influence of thorns+amp+whateverelsetherewas?

    Yes or no.
     
  9. SicHalo

    SicHalo IncGamers Member

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    ofc if he has no lifetap but the point this person is bringing up is not a new scenario at all i have been faced with a scenario simualar to this here is how it went;

    I leaped a few times, which scatered the minnions, i had doom as well for slow then i just tele zerked and got out of there.

    I took dmg from random minnions hitting but not from the IM and and thorns.

    the bottom line is this will work if a barb wws the pack with no lifetap but in reality this should not catch ppl out that much.


    As the whole idea of the leap + howl or just leap is u knock the minnion stack off then u zerk the now vulnarable nec.
     
  10. MrNecro

    MrNecro Banned

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    I like you!

    So....how do you know that it does work with life tap?


    I am using amplified dmg.

    hmm bone wall is great in this situation (cast it on myself)
     
  11. SicHalo

    SicHalo IncGamers Member

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    they are still ways to get arround amp dmg or IM, i.e fade, not only giving DR 15% EXACT from treachery prebuff as well as 60 all res lasting 5 mins and still reducing curse lenght by like 85% or so, meaning alot of recasting and yes like said IM is more usefull than the amp will be.

    well with the lifetap simple u should not die.

    listen whos to say u aint getting zerked through bonewall, half of these scenarios i have seen on my barb the typical one is vs a bonenec standing in a bone wall and i just tele zerk it with the IM above my head.

    Like i said u can catch a few unsuspecting ppl with these tricks but someone that has an idea wot they are doing no..
     
  12. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    Try this with a _real_ barbarian and you will be dissapointed. Not a single barb is too dumb to telewhirl you without lifetap.

    Howl makes any minions walk away. So even your revives will be walking away. If not using howl, Leap does have the same efffect (it knocks the minions back, away from you). And yes, with a fewl Leaps I can definitely get a zerk namelock on you, and then I can simply teleport on top of you and re-namelock and that will kill you. Or then I can simply use lifetap + leap to knock back the minions and then triwhirl you.

    It only adds a certain percentage 100%, whereas IM can add several hundreds to it.


    How come not? You see, you may return all the damage you want, but I will always heal half of it, thus taking no damage.

    Well, you can keep teleporting all you want, I can also keep Leaping to eternity. As long as I stay still, you will not succeed. And of course, you need me to attack recklessly.

    My points is this: Your build depends on the barb being both dumb and for him to make mistakes. This will not work with the top barbarians.

    I'm quite sure it lasts for at least 0.72 seconds, which is the time I need for 1 tele and 1 zerk. And that alone can be enough to kill you.

    If your main concern is the MB from WWsins, then why are you so set on beating BvCs then you clearly will not succeed in it? Also, any barb can simply use something like gavel of pain on switch and that will make your nec a cake.
     
  13. MrNecro

    MrNecro Banned

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    Dude, you're not a nice guy. I only was talking about a very clear question:
    Do I return dmg or not? All what you do is coming with tacktics.

    I stop with this thread. I believe you feel a victory now. Sorry I was only planning to have a nice conversation about theory. The only thing you do is screeming harder with no references. I hope you don't have this problem in social life.
     
  14. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    How come not? I know your build does not work as I've been attacked with similar builds with no success. All you have is a bunch of numbers whereas I got experience. A bunch of numbers means nothing in a duel, specially if it's supposed to be how the duel will go.

    I'm a very nice guy compared to someone like Blobs. He was all too cocky, at least so it seemed, but I think he had good reasons for it.

    And I was answering it, you will not beat the barbarian. It does not matter if you return damage or not. If you do not, you will not beat anybody, if you do, you will beat stupid barbarians. Which is not of concern.

    Well, talking about theory with no real experiences is useless, as most likely the theory is false. Theories are only good in maths, physics, psychology and philosophy. Outside of everything else, theories are quite useless.

    Usually the usage of exclamination marks (!) and/or caps lock are marks of shouting or a key-pointer of a text. I didn't use either in masses. So I did not shout.

    If I'm not a nice guy, why do you hope I do not have a problem in my social life? If I'm not a nice guy, shouldn't you say that I'm probably a teenager who doesn't understand a thing and has problems with alcohol and social life?

    And my social life is none of your concern.
     
  15. garion

    garion IncGamers Member

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    hmmm...how would this summoner inflict dmg?...couldnt this BvC just wait to get a clean shot?...i mean th summons aren't going to deal enough dmg to knock him out....right?
     
  16. De4dEyE

    De4dEyE IncGamers Member

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    Bramble + IM? Say hello to Lifetap + Howl + Leap + Berserk and possibly Holy Freeze.

    If you decide to barricade yourself in bonewalls, then that's still not a problem. A NL teleport will still drop me on your head, and since you have bramble for the thorns, you're stuck and dead.

    IIRC, your minions can't walk through bonewalls themselves, meaning you've just trapped yourself with no help and no way to get out. Aside from Save + Exit.

    As usual, this is all theory fighter.

    Edit: I'm also not even sure how you're able to teleport AND keep a thorn aura. Enigma = no aura [no useful level, at least], and bramble = no constant teleport. You'd have to use a tele ammy/helm/whatever, and eventually you'd be out of charges and reduced to walking. If you had a merc or something wearing the bramble, I'd obliterate him as soon as I saw him, so it's hard to count that.

    Also, all I need to do is keep leaping for around 3 minutes and your revives go away. If I were patient enough I could smash single skeletons with zerk if they wandered near me.

    If you amp me instead of IM, then I could still just WW around as long as I have lifetap activated. If you have IM, then I don't have to worry about getting hit because the minions aren't that strong. If you have enigma instead of bramble, then I could just WW forever among your minions, regardless of IM or Amp. If you have bramble, then read the first sentence.

    It's not a winning scenario for the summoner. Perhaps I've been reading this incorrectly - what gear setup are you thinking about using?

    Edit #2: Holy crap, Edge Bow + Bramble + Andy's mask? I could just howl your minions and mow you down with zerk if it's just that.
     
  17. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    Howl overrides lifetap when you use it and vice versa.

    He could actually make a golem out if it. As for Edge + Bramble, IIRC they do not stack on mercs like they do on players, so this guy is stuck with either only weak Edge and teleport or no teleport and thus even weaker. No teleport= no minion stack = dead.

    Well, the guy did think that Andy's would add to Thorns aura's lvl so ...
     

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