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Can I become invisible?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by stillman, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. stillman

    stillman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Can I become invisible?

    Someone probably thought of this already, but anyway...

    I'm wearing a full body suit. Small cameras on my back detect the wavelengths of light hitting me from behind. Many light projectors on my front emit light of the same wavelengths at the same trajectory as the incident light hitting my back. So anyone in front of me will see whatever is behind me replicated with new light.

    Of course, more little cameras on my front tell light projectors on my back to emit wavelengths matching those hitting my front. The light would have to be emitted slightly conically so the cameras in the suit get masked by the steady stream of light. This would probably warp the replicated images a bit, but maybe one way mirrors could be used somehow?

    The computers and power source are in a backpack inside the suit, and I must hold still to remain invisible. For now, let's say the suit is made entirely from cylindrical shapes, so no motors are needed to correct the light trajectories. When light hits any point on a cylinder surface, a reproduced light gets emitted from the point on the surface directly opposite.

    -Is this possible?
    -and how much would it cost?
     
  2. kavlor

    kavlor Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    Issues I imagine is being invisible at every angle as how would it put out the right light to the person looking at the suit.Each light emitter would need to be split up to account for 180 degrees,Im thinking like those cards that when you turn them in your hand the image changes/animates.

    I would be interested though what any experts with knowledge of electronic and optics would say as I admit I've thought about this myself.

    and the viewer?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  3. Galabab

    Galabab Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    An actual human figure? With thousends of tiny angles? I dont think so.

    Your first approach should be to get an invisible box ;)
     
  4. thechest

    thechest Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    I believe there is some research into getting light to bend around an object, and if I recall correctly there was a breakthrough recently. But even if that's true it won't be commercially available for years, decades even.
     
  5. BobCox2

    BobCox2 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/10/invisibility-cloak-mirage/


    Researchers from the University of Dallas in Texas have hijacked one of nature’s most intriguing phenomena — the mirage — to make an invisibility cloak. It can hide objects from view, works best underwater and even has a near-instant on/off switch.
    To understand how it works, you need to first grasp the basics of the mirage effect. This unusual experience, sometimes seen in the desert or on hot roads during the summer, can trick your brain into seeing objects that aren’t really there.
     
  6. stillman

    stillman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    I encountered an MCAT question once that explained the possibility of making very small objects invisible. You have the tiny object encapsulated with a spherical material that bends the light around to completely avoid the object inside. It's easy to bend light; you just slow it down by passing it through a special material, like how fiber optics works.

    But, what I'm interested in is using electricity to produce new light identical to light hitting the object.


     
  7. Glurin

    Glurin Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    The question isn't "is it possible", as pretty much anything is. The real question is how far along is the technology and our understanding of the principles behind what you want to do. I know for a fact that what you want to do is being researched as we speak.

    It would not surprise me if there is a suit that makes you invisible, at least partially, sitting in some lab somewhere. It may not even surprise me if its already being used for the kind of things that "only a conspiracy nutcase would believe". In either case, that puts it way beyond what you can afford. :tongue:

    I doubt something like that even be allowed to be commercially available until long after the countermeasures were widely available, if then.
     
  8. BobCox2

    BobCox2 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    Dude; Rule still is if your not dressed as the Emperer and his Crew your invisible.

    Always has been

    And you got to be old money.


     
  9. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    Such a device will have to work with more than just visible light, but also with infrared, and radio waves, else you can see it with infrared goggles or detect it on radar screens. Even if it does (which I doubt), you can measure the difference of the travel time of the light in comparison to the surroundings or if moving, in comparison to before, so a radar probably wouldn't need many modifications to detect invisible targets of that kind.



     
  10. stillman

    stillman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    No need; we're only interested in regular invisibility to the human eye. So far, the big problem is when either the wearer or the viewer move. I guess motors on every light projector may be require after all. Motion detectors would have to pinpoint where the moving viewers are, then compensate the light trajectories. What a mess. AI would have to distinguish which movements are people and which are leaves blowing in the wind, etc.
     
  11. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    That can be solved by shooting both enemies and leaves in the wind :D
     
  12. starrise

    starrise Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    The only problem with being totally invisible, and I bet you already read this somewhere, is that you can't see anything because the light isn't entering your eyeballs. Instead it's going around them. So unless you want look like a pair of disembodied eyes floating around... =)
     
  13. diagamer

    diagamer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    As has been mentioned, invisibility cloaks basically mean redirecting light around you without losing it to reflection. So it's possible, just technically challenging.
     
  14. stillman

    stillman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    The idea I described has nothing to do with bending light. It's detecting light on one side, then projecting identical wavelengths on the opposite side. Picture a cube with one side that emits light identical in wavelength to whatever light happens to be hitting it's opposite side. Now do that with all sides. Of course, you will want something more like a cylinder that projects light at every trajectory needed.
     
  15. starrise

    starrise Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    There is a fundamental problem: an emitter can't simultaneously be a detector, or there would be interference in the light, and the emitter/detector would blind itself. Also electrical signaling to and from such a device wouldn't be possible. Solving this by splitting the two up therefore causes resolution to suffer. So you'd look like a patch of low resolution. =)

    Not to mention amplitude would be clipped at the emitters' max emittance, so you'd also appear less bright than your surroundings in sufficiently bright environments. Without a power source there'd also be attenuation of incoming light, so you'd appear dimmer in every environment.

    The emitters would have to be fitted on micro-electro-mechanical actuators to swivel so trajectory is preserved as well, while still being sufficiently small. And you may have a problem of having to switch which detector is connected to which emitter depending on how the surfaces of your suit change orientation relative to one another, which would require a very powerful computer to maintain in real time, and the updates are finitely fast, meaning the emitters would lag and so you'd look kind of blurry.

    And you'd need micro-electro-mechanical accelerometers to know which way is up at every single mem actuator so you can orient it properly. And you'd need either an integrated circuit at each mem actuator to actually translate the accelerometer data to the actuator, or that computer to tie it all together.

    Keep in mind each of these devices takes up space, lowering your resolution or making the suit bulkier, and they're really sensitive and fragile, and dust particles would completely fubar the whole thing. Oh and a covering to stop dust (and any space between emitters) would cause you to reflect light, mixing with the emitted light and making the whole thing look at least a little off.

    Let's just say with current technology it would be an engineering nightmare to come even close to what you're describing and still be reasonably convincing. My guess is the first suit would cost at least hundreds of millions of dollars and take years to complete, and be a piece of crap that breaks as soon as it goes out of the clean room, or as soon as it's put on. Even if you did get past that, it still has limitations that make you pretty detectable, at least as something that isn't supposed to be there.

    And on top of alllllll of that: you still have the problem I posted earlier. You can't see if the light is being redirected. So you'd need to direct the light being blocked at your eyeballs to two places: behind your head and into your eyeballs. Or your eyeballs will be visible.

    Edit: Thought of one more problem: as far as I know there aren't any micro-level emitters that have uniform wavelength emittance across the entire visible spectrum. So you'd need something like pixels on your monitor to properly match colors, which requires more computing power. Not to mention, if you know what to look for (e.g. spectroscopic analysis) you can tell the difference between a single-wavelength color and a metamer (color that looks like, but isn't, a single-wavelength color, instead made up of multiple wavelengths). This can be done in real time and could be fitted into a specialized camera. So solving this problem with multiple single-wavelength emitters makes you more detectable.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  16. stillman

    stillman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    I had in mind a polka dot pattern of light emitters and detectors (video cameras) side by side. They would not be in the same spots, just close to each other. As for interference--and this is a very crude understanding I have of it--can't you shine two flashlights at each other without much consequence? So one flashlight represents the emitters, the other flashlight is the incoming light from the environment.

    I don't see how electrical signaling is impossible. Wires go from one device to another inside the suit, going through a computer along the way. Assume that power supply, space, etc is not an issue. Stand inside an immovable big cube if it helps the thought experiment. The goal is simple invisibility, even with limitations like no one can move for it to work. That can be improved on later.

    We have ten car batteries inside the cube! Later, if we want to move a bit, we are happy with a smaller battery and a couple minutes of invisibility.

    Yeah...about that. We must think of the very first "primitive" version of this. So both the viewer and wearer are not moving. Let's say you want to hide the Mona Lisa in this box, so anyone looking at video surveillance of the room would see just the room because the camera is not moving. I know the box itself is more expensive than the art, and you could use cheap camera tricks to make the art not show, but just go along with it for fun.

    To fix some of the aforementioned problems, I would even be happy with an inviso shield, where invisibility is attained from the front view only. This would fix some problems with the emitters and detectors being on the same side. No motors needed.

    Once movement is achieved, someone can radio in directions on how to move! Or, some of the many cameras could show the environment on a little monitor in the helmet.

    Invent them, or improve what we have already. Even if you only get what looks like the Predator's invisibility, it would still be really cool!


     
  17. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    It's been said that the USAF were researching into this field of visual stealth for its aircrafts. Unsure how far they got. But they poured a boat load of money into it. So in theory, it is possible. However, the cost may be prohibative.
     
  18. Galabab

    Galabab Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    btw., nothing good ol paint cant solve:

    [​IMG]

    btw this is exactly what stillman wants.
    A camera records light coming from one direction and a chemical surface is created to reflect this same kind of light again.
     
  19. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    Besides, that wonderful machine can make a surprising number of things invisible as well. It just has to fit into the shovel, in parts or as a whole.
     
  20. starrise

    starrise Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Can I become invisible?

    Many, many parts...so many parts.

    Er, sorry you were saying?
     

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