C/C or C/S for Phoenix Strike Sin?

Pathos

Diabloii.Net Member
C/C or C/S for Phoenix Strike Sin?

Hi, I've searched and read a few threads and the general consensus is that C/C is preferable because it charges CoT and FoF faster. However, I am going to be playing HC, untwinked and am wondering what the best option would be.
For C/C, I'd probably put 7 or 8 into WB and 1 into BoS (I know WB only works when you're standing still, would it work well if you're surrounded and charging?).
For C/S, I plan on putting 7 or 8 into Fade.
Basically, what it comes down to is whether the increased attack power of C/C is worth the sacrifice of defense?
Also, what would be a good amount for DS for a decent radius (presuming you can only get +2/+3 to all skills).
 

Karmaconcarne

Diabloii.Net Member
I've tried a CoS Cold/PS and with a SM plus a defiance merc... imo you have a lot of freedom if resists and mdr are kept at a decent level.. with the vita and + to skills in mind a stormshield would almost weaken your sin!

Remember venom and shadow charms!
 

Remlin

Diabloii.Net Member
I've always liked c/c for the Assassin. Claw/Shield is just admitting that you are afraid of the monsters and that you need extra protection.
A couple of fast claws to build-up phoenix and cobra...then the unleashing :thumbsup: !! You kill quickly and recharge for the next attack.
Yes, you need good AC and resists, but even without a shield you can makeup what you need with charms and runewords. But remember, we are heroes adventuring and striving to eliminate the demonic hordes, we are not just 'racing' through the game for fun. (At least this is my play style - you have to kill the monsters in front of you before moving on.) Take your time (especially in HC) and develop a good play-style/skill-set that you enjoy.
One of the great things about Diablo2 is that you can start over...and over...and over again if you don't like how your build is going.
 

BIGeyedBUG

Diabloii.Net Member
I prefer C/C, but either one can work well.

C/S offers:

- Better physical blocking
- Easier resists
- Other shield mods

C/C offers:

- Higher +skills
- Higher life (Though this usually comes at the expense of AR and some equipment choices.)
- Elemental blocking
- Easier use of FoF/CoT/BoI

For C/C, I'd probably put 7 or 8 into WB and 1 into BoS (I know WB only works when you're standing still, would it work well if you're surrounded and charging?).
For C/S, I plan on putting 7 or 8 into Fade.
I don't think I've ever put more than 5 points into WB. 3-4 points is typical for my HC characters, though it sounds like you're not expecting many +skills to bring your level up.

It's less typical for C/Sers to use Fade than C/Cers because of the availability of resists and PDR% on shields.

Basically, what it comes down to is whether the increased attack power of C/C is worth the sacrifice of defense?
It's not that simple. C/S can have greater offense in some ways because C/Cers (without the best equipment) are often scrambling for resists. For example, a C/Ser might be able to use BoS instead of Fade, and maybe attack faster even with a naturally slower weapon but with higher damage and better mods. OTOH, with the right equipment, a C/Cer can have better durability than a C/Ser because of their higher life and spell blocking.

Anyway, I'd say that C/S tends to be a little easier, particularly in SC. C/C is much cooler though.

Also, what would be a good amount for DS for a decent radius (presuming you can only get +2/+3 to all skills).
Even one point will be pretty cool. Getting it to 5-8 (before +skills) would be gravy.
 

ilkori

Diabloii.Net Member
One random thought to keep in mind. C/S lets you use Rhyme shields, which have Cannot Be Frozen. With a build like PS, you need the the CBF mod from somewhere, so playing untwinked, you may just want to run around in nightmare to get that Shael rune and slap it in a Grim Shield.
 

Omikron8

Diabloii.Net Member
C/S for phoenix strike

both phoenix and cobra only attack with the right claw to charge up so essentially you are only using the second claw for its secondary mods

this means far less resistances unless the second claw is a jade talon
 

HaLoPhReAk

Diabloii.Net Member
i would choose c/s because you won't have to put points in dual weapon block.

but it might be good to have jade talon's because you get tons of resistances,

IMO; if u need resis' then c/c, otherwise c/s
 

BIGeyedBUG

Diabloii.Net Member
Omikron8 said:
C/S for phoenix strike

both phoenix and cobra only attack with the right claw to charge up so essentially you are only using the second claw for its secondary mods
As "secondary mods" go, the importance of +skills to a PSer shouldn't be underestimated.
 

Omikron8

Diabloii.Net Member
That is why spirit has +2 skills and lidless has +1 skills :)

And they can block and don't require skill pts to block
 

BIGeyedBUG

Diabloii.Net Member
Omikron8 said:
That is why spirit has +2 skills and lidless has +1 skills :)

And they can block and don't require skill pts to block
Shields do require DEX to block however. Spirit in a shield would require a minimum of 156 STR as well. Also, since it has no increased blocking, it would require 250-300+ DEX to keep it's blocking% at 75. Together, the STR and DEX investments translate to 750-900+ life less life than a 79/79 c/c build--though the STR and DEX bring some potentially major benefits to the table: more armor choices, higher raw AR, and better physical damage.

At the high end, rare claws that would eclipse Spirit completely are possible. At the low end, twin Bartuc's or Bartuc's/JT are tough to beat.

It should be noted as well that with +skills, WB doesn't need much investment PvM. 5 points or less is pretty reasonable even in HC.

Anyway, I don't want it to sound as if I'm arguing that C/C is The Way. Both setups offer a lot.
 
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