BvC Okay. This needs to be brought up, and it needs its own thread, because it keeps coming up in other threads, and I wouldn't mind a resolution to it. I've noticed a lot of things on this forum since I've been here, and one of them is that it has a serious chubb for the BvC class. I have trouble finding a thread w/o a reference to their superiority, godliness, etc. Now, there are good BvCs. There are BvCs who beat just about everyone they face. But, I'm really, really tired of hearing how great the class is. The fact is, there are players of other classes who beat everyone they face. When people discuss the power or lack thereof of classes (and subclasses) on this forum, they tend to discuss them in terms of having decent gear, and decent players. For some reason, in the case of the BvCs, the player is assumed to be godly. I'm not sure why this is, but the emergence of threads like :" do you ww barbs ever got beaten," clearly shows that it is having an impact on the people who come here for advice. So, I'm looking for some answers. In my experience, the best players are very good at their chosen build, and it is more their skill and less their build that lets them win. Why are BvCs portrayed as so godly? Even their proponents admit that they require great ability to be good. I'll take it a step further. Most BvCs are terrible. I can only assume that a portion of these are people who have searched the web for a good pvp guide and come across things like that horrendously inflated win % table for BvCs. Whenever this is mentioned, the response is "Well, those aren't REAL BvCs," but apparently there are only around 5 so called "real" BvCs per realm. How elite do you have to make the players before a class becomes good? How absurb would it be if we compared all classes on the basis of only the very best players? It has no relevence to any average gamer who comes here looking for information. I've seen build ideas shot down on this forum because it was said that a BvC would beat it, and a BvC has to be part of any imaginary pub. What are the odds that McM is going to be in any given pub? Why should ANYONE plan their character on the basis of that? Furthermore, since in the context of planning for Pubs the average BvC is a weak opponent, why do we consider only the godly BvCs "real?" Imagine if we applied this attitude to all characters. Think of how many discussions have been derailed by someone (generally Ce Olba, but others as well) popping in and saying "A BvC would win in that situation because of "x". What's the point? What does it contribute? Imagine if all the skilled WWsin players on the forum did that. Then add in the skilled smiters. And the skilled Hammerdins. And Wolf Druids. And Elemental druids. Etc...etc...etc... What if instead of constantly advocating this one class as so superior, we just treat them like any other class?