BvC and Light Absorb/Dmg

[SicHalo]

a few points of damage do _not_ matter, but 50 damage is _not_ the same as 2500 life, or is it?



I do not count that as dueling, as I was poorer back then. Right now I got way more gear and experience and knowledge.



1. Desynch allows you not to get hit?
2. Then you switch auras and desynch causes your hammers to be invisible?
3. Doesn't make sense, again.



The word "claim" does not fit there. You should rather use some other word. You can claim a prize and you can claim that you're right in some topic. Those are the only 2 meaning for "claim" that I can think of. Now, you cannot claim "standard skills" are IIRC, those are the skills you already have. You either cannot claim that you're right on the skills, or something. Use some other word, please?



I see your mage is more based on the foh damage than the hammer damage. I'm afraid this results in that when someone negates your foh you are turnedi nto a lvl 60 hammerdin, cept with better gear.

Mages base more on foh are tough but the problem is the hammer dmg.

Hes layout is simular to mine stat wise except i geared mine more towards hammer dmg instead so my foh is lower but i have better hammer.


plus GA can still follow u while u desync the only way i know u can dodge the fire from GA is get off the persons screen, use the blood more objects like the house, trees and the walls.

but IIRC Zaczku's pala is like lvl 95 or something rite?

 

[Vindus]

My AR is only about 3k anyway so I don't think its really going to hurt my AR if I wear a couple wisps. Reason I was asking is because I've been running across a lot of sorcs / sins wearing infinity on their characters recently and is giving me a lot of trouble for some reason.

It would awesome if I could get a person from these boards who has a long time experience using this type of char to meet me in game and take a look at what I wear / maybe give me a few pointers (US West) as I've looked at a ton of info on here about building a bvc / what gear to wear for all sorts of various situations but its just not working out for me.

 

[Thoridian]

you are wrong:
1. 10k foh is not 255 after pvp penalty and 85 lr.

You are the one whos wrong. Pvp penatly for all attacks is 0.17. So it is 10000 * 0.17(pvp penatly) *0.15(85lr)-20(tgods "abs") thats 255-20 = 235.

is that mean 1/5 dmg less?

Its like lets say you do 7000 dmg so tgods absorbs 20dmg. That will make you deal 6980 dmg. Now you see that its completly useless?

of corz all ele chars can be negate.

Yes they can.

but will u use demon limb when you sacrafice ar?

No I wont.

and why you claim for rl and mobility if you sacrifice it when use full abs?sounds like retared, dont you think so?

Using meditation to regenerate mana is 100% ok for be, but as long as u got 1point in prayer (and you've got it for sure because its prereq) then it becomes BM because it heals you. Guess then barb can lifetap monsters because he got ctc lifetap on draculs? Ofc a barb then would be BM because he would heal, but hell no youre not BM when you heal yourself.

btw decent hammerdins are half or more 20's always.

??

erkm... so why you claim for pala rl and mobility if you sacrifice it for abs, stock res and dmg? its your choice to use tg vs dungo and forti vs eni!

The word "claim" completly doesnt fit here. Okay next thing is that we sacrifice AR to get lighting resistance (aka viper eye rings @ eu scnl) so +x res is not an absorb. By the way give me any other belt than tgods that has +10% max light res and id gladly use it to make alot of people stop crying over the abs that in fact does nothing.

if foh play with random hamadin who needs 85 res + stock res + wisp to win with him then yeah they have hard times, but did you ever hear about bm? naaaaaaah only medi is bm, right?

Yes Medi is BM as long as it heals you, and it heals when uve got 1 point in prayer. Since prayer is prereq then medi heals you.

pvp penalty for magic,melee and ele is different like i know.

Then again you have no clue what you're talking about. Ask RTB who IIRC has access to diablo2's source code.

i have 5.5-6k dmg when duel bvc couse of shako on me.

6000 * 0.17 * 0.10 - 20 = youll deal 82 dmg to character that has 90lr +tgods's abs (the -20 part). Makes your foh completly useless and you become weaker hammerdin.

agree, but what is wrong if i dodge ga with vigor then go away 3 screens regen my mana (couse im not poor mana drinker and i need a lot of mana to charge) and come back with charge lag. maybe it will regen me 50 maybe 100 points but_it_is_only_my_advantage. your choice - abs, my choice rl.

Its no problem if youre dodging GAs with vigor. And if youre running out of mana then use manapots.

your choice - abs, my choice rl.

As i said give me any other belt with +10% max res and what youll whine about? I wouldnt have any damn piece of abs (tgods abs has already been proved to be crap). Just drop that abs part because its laugable abs from tgods. And its no problem for me if YOU will sacrifice a part of your GEAR to get life replenish. We sacrifice gear to get light res, will you sacrifice something from your gear to get life replenish? Doubt you will.

like one of us calculate before, difference beetween wisp + stock and 90res+stock+20abs is like 100 and 150 what means 50% more dmg(5k life and 7.5k remember about it). I dont care for it in duel, im not poor crying sorc when i have char advantage but if someone prefer abs then rl it is only his choice.

No its not. Its not 50% its -20 dmg to all your lighting damage attacks. Also BvCs DO NOT need abs, just max res. Ill repeat: drop that abs part because the only abs a BvC would have is Ravens cold abs and tgods abs. You deal lighting damage so tgods abs is laughable.

Hava a nice day ... i mean "gogo BAAAAAAAARCAAAAAAAAAAAAAA xD"

True^^ Barcelona pwned Arsenal 2-1 <3

 

[morotsjos]

BastardInstict is not best v/t on nld imo. Maybe he play well vs barbs(dunno that) but vs other he is just avarge.

ben is by far the best anti-barb v/t on europe, everything else is a joke in comparision. i doubt he's much worse vs other chars. he's just one of those really good duelers, no matter what he plays.

 

[Zaczku]

but IIRC Zaczku's pala is like lvl 95 or something rite?

500 brs more, and it will be 98^^

Incorrect, the PvP penalty for magic, melee, ele is all the same, 17%

yup, just check it and you've got right. i though it was 1/4... dunno why maybe it change when 1.10 come in or sth... anyway it only prove that this 20 abs from tg negate more % of my dmg-.-

a few points of damage do _not_ matter, but 50 damage is _not_ the same as 2500 life, or is it?

so you want to say that negate someone dmg by 92.5%(90+1/5 from 10) is ok?
negate dmg by 50% is same like having 50% less life.
your choice - negate dmg and no rl life, my choice - rl = more life.
is that clear now?

I do not count that as dueling, as I was poorer back then. Right now I got way more gear and experience and knowledge.

that why i wrote "litle"

1. Desynch allows you not to get hit?
2. Then you switch auras and desynch causes your hammers to be invisible?
3. Doesn't make sense, again.

1. did you just say that you want me to stay on your screen? and did i say that im not mana drinker?
2. erkm do you try to tell me that best way to make ibh's is to make hammerfield when you are on your opponent screen with xx ga's on your back? :| jesus....
3. ...^

its not me who claim for standard skills-.- what is wrong with this sentence? but in simply words - [bvc's claim for pala skills]

Use some other word, please?

im sure you get what i mean

like one of us calculate before, difference beetween wisp + stock and 90res+stock+20abs is like 100 and 150 what means 50% more dmg

No its not. Its not 50% its -20 dmg to all your lighting damage attacks.
...
6000 * 0.17 * 0.10 - 20 = youll deal 82 dmg to character that has 90lr +tgods's abs (the -20 part).

6k*1/6 * 0.6 ~150 - wisp + stock resi what is for me gm vs foh.
6k*1/6 *1/10 -20 ~ 80 - 90 res + stock resi + abs from tg.
it means that abs what you usually use is like 300+stock resi nad 1.5 wisp!
and its obviously consider BM.
but like i said before - im not crababe who claim for abs (if someone play bm i can do it too) i dont even play bm vs such a barbs. i just use my standard skill medi to regen mana. i sacrifice 1.2 k "show" hammer dmg just to get medi couse im not poor drinker. and almoust all barb now claim for my 20 rl from medi~~ its RIDICULOUS!

Guess then barb can lifetap monsters because he got ctc lifetap on draculs? Ofc a barb then would be BM because he would heal, but hell no youre not BM when you heal yourself.

if you want to use charges skill and monsters should i use eternity + redamptation? ~~

Yes Medi is BM as long as it heals you, and it heals when uve got 1 point in prayer. Since prayer is prereq then medi heals you.

hoto is ****in bm... 20 rl WTF??!! dungo is ****in bm 13 rl WTF??!! 2* rl rings are bm - 20 rl WTF??!! stupid blizzard programist... wtf??!! why you give ability to rl in this game??!! ****in programist you know nothing about pvp...

ben is by far the best anti-barb v/t on europe, everything else is a joke in comparision. i doubt he's much worse vs other chars. he's just one of those really good duelers, no matter what he plays.

i have never said that he is bad dueler. but for sure he could be better if he play only one char. anyway, i was dueling him when i sold almoust half of my pvp gear(my pala was round 15 scs worth) and he was just avarge. i had much more problems with my friend who actually dont play d2 any more - cold-ip(we duel on tcp ip from time to time and i have much more problems with him even with perf gear;/).

True^^ Barcelona pwned Arsenal 2-1 <3

yeah it was cool game from both sides

 

[Thoridian]

6k*1/6 * 0.6 ~150 - wisp + stock resi what is for me gm vs foh.
6k*1/6 *1/10 -20 ~ 80 - 90 res + stock resi + abs from tg.
it means that abs what you usually use is like 300+stock resi nad 1.5 wisp!
and its obviously consider BM.
but like i said before - im not crababe who claim for abs (if someone play bm i can do it too) i dont even play bm vs such a barbs. i just use my standard skill medi to regen mana. i sacrifice 1.2 k "show" hammer dmg just to get medi couse im not poor drinker. and almoust all barb now claim for my 20 rl from medi~~ its RIDICULOUS!

Lets count 2x wisp abs vs tgods abs, all with 85res (LoLo helmet in Wisp case)

As an example we'll use 10k foh dmg.

Tgods: 10000 *0.17(pvp penatly) * 0.15 (85res) -20 = 1700 *0.15 -20 = 255 - 20 = 235.

Wisp setup: 10000*0.17 (pvp penatly) * 0.15(85 res) =1700 * 0.15= 255
40% from 255 = 102 (255*0.40)
255-102 = 153

1 wisp: 255 *0.20 = 51
255-51 = 204

As we can see wisps helps WAY more.

[QUOTEif you want to use charges skill and monsters should i use eternity + redamptation? ~~[/QUOTE] Sure but then you have to drop either CTA or Hoto+spirit/zaka, unless you precast which i already know you consider as BM.

hoto is ****in bm... 20 rl WTF??!! dungo is ****in bm 13 rl WTF??!! 2* rl rings are bm - 20 rl WTF??!! stupid blizzard programist... wtf??!! why you give ability to rl in this game??!! ****in programist you know nothing about pvp...

As long as you sacrifice GEAR its no problem.

No barb would use hoto + dungos + 2 life rep. rings vs mage btw.

yeah it was cool game from both sides

Taa mecz byl zajebisty ale szkoda mi Henry'ego tylko bo gral naprawde pieknie i honorowo sie zachowywal.

//sorry for polish there but i couldnt resist

 

[Ce Olba]

Lets count 2x wisp abs vs tgods abs, all with 85res (LoLo helmet in Wisp case)

As an example we'll use 10k foh dmg.

Tgods: 10000 *0.17(pvp penatly) * 0.15 (85res) -20 = 1700 *0.15 -20 = 255 - 20 = 235.

Wisp setup: 10000*0.17 (pvp penatly) * 0.15(85 res) =1700 * 0.15= 255
40% from 255 = 102 (255*0.40)
255-102 = 153

1 wisp: 255 *0.20 = 51
255-51 = 204

As we can see wisps helps WAY more.

And this is _only_ what happens with full life, when the absorb works as -40% damage. When not on full life, you first heal 40%, then take 60%, thus your effective damage taking is 60%-40%=20%. But that's the way it only works _if_ you do not go over your full life with the 40% healed, since if the 40% healed is more than what you need for full life, it does _not_ work at full effect.

 

[Zaczku]

Lets count 2x wisp abs vs tgods abs, all with 85res (LoLo helmet in Wisp case)

As an example we'll use 10k foh dmg.

Tgods: 10000 *0.17(pvp penatly) * 0.15 (85res) -20 = 1700 *0.15 -20 = 255 - 20 = 235.

Wisp setup: 10000*0.17 (pvp penatly) * 0.15(85 res) =1700 * 0.15= 255
40% from 255 = 102 (255*0.40)
255-102 = 153
1 wisp: 255 *0.20 = 51
255-51 = 204

As we can see wisps helps WAY more.

1. do you think that avarge foh will have 10 k dmg vs you? you are totaly wrong. why you dont calculate dmg with for example 100k foh? you would prove easier with this that wisp abs more~~ nxt time try to use real value.

2. why you calculate only tg when you use tg + forti vs foh? what means 90% res + 20 abs.

3. your calculate with wisp is wrong.

4. tell me when i made mistake in my calculation:
6k*1/6 * 0.6 ~150 - wisp + stock resi what is for me gm vs foh.
6k*1/6 *1/10 -20 ~ 80 - 90 res + stock resi + abs from tg.
it means that abs what you usually use is like 300+stock resi nad 1.5 wisp!
and its obviously consider BM.
but like i said before - im not crababe who claim for abs (if someone play bm i can do it too) i dont even play bm vs such a barbs. i just use my standard skill medi to regen mana. i sacrifice 1.2 k "show" hammer dmg just to get medi couse im not poor drinker. and almoust all barb now claim for my 20 rl from medi~~ its RIDICULOUS!

f you want to use charges skill and monsters should i use eternity + redamptation? ~~

Sure but then you have to drop either CTA or Hoto+spirit/zaka, unless you precast which i already know you consider as BM.

first im not the person who use precast, its barbs who use demon limb -.-
second - hoto vs eternity, redempation from standard pala skill.
is it ok now? gm in your oponion y?

As long as you sacrifice GEAR its no problem.

so if i sacrifice 1.2 k hammerd dmg(1/7 of my dmg) for 20 rl it is not ok??!!

No barb would use hoto + dungos + 2 life rep. rings vs mage btw.

its barb choice - abs + ar vs rl + mobility

Taa mecz byl zajebisty ale szkoda mi Henry'ego tylko bo gral naprawde pieknie i honorowo sie zachowywal.

//sorry for polish there but i couldnt resist

y but one team must win one must lose.

 

[Ce Olba]

With 7k foh the difference is 50 less damage taken to the favour of dual wisps:

TGod only

7 000*0.17*0.15-20=1190*0.15-20=178.5-20=158.5

With dual wisps, LoLo helm:
7000*0.17*0.15*0.6=1190*0.15*0.6=178.5*0.6=107.1

With 1 wisp, LoLo helm:
7000*0.17*0.15*0.8=1190*0.15*0.8=178.5*0.8=142.8

158-142.8=15.2
158-107.1=51

So yes, wisps are superior to TGod. 0.17*0.15*0.8=0.0204, 0.0204*6000=122.4. That's with 1 wisp, no TGod.

You really, really, should _not_ argue with me when it comes to maths, since my maths grade happens to hop between 9 and 10 on a scale of 3.75-10.25.

With _only_ 85 resistances, you get a nice total of 0.17*0.15=0.0255
0.0255*6 000=153
0.0255*7 000=178.5
0.0255*10 000=255.

You still think barbs _need_ absorb? It barely effects, only like 44 damage with dual wisps on 6k damage. Also, the pvp penalty is 0.17, not 1/6, 1/6=0.1666666..., so it's off by a 0.0044444...., which is 0.4%, which _is_ a lot.

 

[Zaczku]

With 7k foh the difference is 50 less damage taken to the favour of dual wisps:

TGod only

7 000*0.17*0.15-20=1190*0.15-20=178.5-20=158.5


With 1 wisp, LoLo helm:
7000*0.17*0.15*0.8=1190*0.15*0.8=178.5*0.8=142.8


You still think barbs _need_ absorb? It barely effects, only like 44 damage with dual wisps on 6k damage. Also, the pvp penalty is 0.17, not 1/6, 1/6=0.1666666..., so it's off by a 0.0044444...., which is 0.4%, which _is_ a lot.

ill repeat it one more time:
You use 90%res + 20 abs not 85%res + 20 abs.
so this:

7 000*0.17*0.15-20=1190*0.15-20=178.5-20=158.5

its not real value of dmg.


the right one is here:
7000 *0.17*0.10-20=99
and this one:

7000*0.17*0.15*0.8=1190*0.15*0.8=178.5*0.8=142.8

is wrong too.


The right one is here(wisp20%+85 res):
7000*0.17*0.15*0.6=107.1

now tell me one more thing, is 85 res AND 300+stock resi AND wisp ok in barb vs foh duel?
simply is 66 hits vs 2-5 wws ok mechup?
if you say yes i can nothing more to prove. Imo its VERY VERY unfair couse you can easy bow to death this pala just by ow.
Dont forget one thing, WE JUST PROVE THAT your abs(res) negate MORE dmg then 85 res AND 300+stock AND wisp. (107.1>>99)
And one more thing:
do you think sacrifice 1.2k dmg vs 20 rl is BM??!!

 

[Ce Olba]

ill repeat it one more time:
You use 90%res + 20 abs not 85%res + 20 abs.
so this:

its not real value of dmg.


the right one is here:
7000 *0.17*0.10-20=99

Who the hell says I'm using a Fortitude? I'm not. Also, you never said anything about 90% LR. If you want to make it 90% LR, go ahead, just 1 thing: not everyone has the luxury to use a Fortitude instead of a resistances armor. Myself I use a 120/83 LR/Life armor.

The right one is here(wisp20%+85 res):
7000*0.17*0.15*0.6=107.1

Take your eye and read my post, I posted that in there, the one you copied here was with just 1 Wisp, moronite.

now tell me one more thing, is 85 res AND 300+stock resi AND wisp ok in barb vs foh duel?

Dunno, never use this, I only use stacked resistances +max resistance. Also, it's the player's fault. If you make an elemental build, you should be ready to get in trouble with certain people.

simply is 66 hits vs 2-5 wws ok mechup?

Then do not make absorbable builds plx?

if you say yes i can nothing more to prove. Imo its VERY VERY unfair couse you can easy bow to death this pala just by ow.

Not my fault that Blizzard made it so that you can absorb elementals. And no, I cannot tank a foher to eternity, since they do _not_ heal me, since I only use 85% LR and no abs.

Dont forget one thing, WE JUST PROVE THAT your abs(res) negate MORE dmg then 85 res AND 300+stock AND wisp. (107.1>>99)

Whatever, I do not abs, since I do not need it. And I do not use a Fortitude when dueling FoHers, So to me, wisps would be superior, but cannot bother.

And one more thing:
do you think sacrifice 1.2k dmg vs 20 rl is BM??!!

Do you think that it's BM to cry about someone negating an elemental build, when it's not his fault, but fault of the game and the way Blizzard made it and also the player's fault for not realizing that the build can be absorbed. Just why I said that Mages and V/T's are superior to Smiters and Fohadins, because they can force their opponent to change gear so that they almost always lose something important (damage, PDR, Life, AR).

By the way, the lowest that a 10k FoH will ever get to, is 11 if full life, 9.4 healed if not full life, But this assumes Blackhorn's Face+GAngel+TGod and dual wisps. So yes, it _will_ take a lot of effort to totally negate a 10k FoH, but it's still very possible. I could actually get a Blackhorn's face for some badass FoHers to make them whine :smiley: or nah, I won't, it will only do 20 less damage, and without dual Wisps it will not make much of a difference.

 

[Zaczku]

or rl, and its not my fault that pala has ability to rl w/o gear.

btw you will be first barb who use only tg when duel me, i hope you will not change your mind^^ if we find some free time to duel of corz

and ekhm... moronite... terror and i told you where you made mistake. Read it one more time plz then flame, ok? thx

 

[Ce Olba]

or rl, and its not my fault that pala has ability to rl w/o gear.

It's not BM to have RL on gear, just the way you can use it possibly is. I find it alright to me if you charge so that I can at least see you on my screen or map, but if u go hide on some act5 random cave, it gets a little bit too BM. I mean, what the hell, it's suposed to be a fight, not a hide-and-seek game, do you _not_ agree? Or do you?

btw you will be first barb who use only tg when duel me, i hope you will not change your mind^^ if we find some free time to duel of corz

Too bad I do not have the luxury of 20/11's or perf torch and anni, since that's the reason I have to use a 120 armor.

and ekhm... moronite... terror and i told you where you made mistake. Read it one more time plz then flame, ok? thx

Moronite=Moron+Cryptonite (the mineral which takes away Superman's powers). Is that a bad insult? I can do worse if you want. Moronite is just a funny little surname, if I want to be a meanie, I can do that. All of the people I know in real life, including the head of my school, say that I do not need the physical strenght when I got my voice and my words.

I'm just trying to tell you that when someone makes a build that is negatable (fb sorc, lightning sorc, cold sorc, foher, etc.), they should be prepaired for it to be negated, specially the likes of fohers, since their strenght comes from Conviction, and when it's negated, the foh does pathetic damage. If you'd give me rings with 20 dex, 250 ar, 20% Light Absorb, cold damage, CBF, I would rather use those than stack resistances, since that's what I do with cold sorcs, and cold sorcs got _way_ more -resi% than fohers (it can be as high as -300%, without counting in hell Resistance penalty, then it's -400%)

 

[morotsjos]

now tell me one more thing, is 85 res AND 300+stock resi AND wisp ok in barb vs foh duel?
simply is 66 hits vs 2-5 wws ok mechup?

then again you have 8-9k hammers and can tank more than 2-5 wws on average.
mages, like v/t:s, use foh as a secondary skill. the whole point is to force the opponent to switch to weaker gear in order to not die from foh.
i know you agree on that barbs MUST negate foh when dueling a mage (or v/t for that matter), or it will become a totally impossible duel. mages still have character advantage by far, so it's no big deal really.

i dont know when you dueled ben, but he has improved a lot recently. i agree on that he would become even better if he only played v/t though.

 

[SicHalo]

then again you have 8-9k hammers and can tank more than 2-5 wws on average.
mages, like v/t:s, use foh as a secondary skill. the whole point is to force the opponent to switch to weaker gear in order to not die from foh.
i know you agree on that barbs MUST negate foh when dueling a mage (or v/t for that matter), or it will become a totally impossible duel. mages still have character advantage by far, so it's no big deal really.

i dont know when you dueled ben, but he has improved a lot recently. i agree on that he would become even better if he only played v/t though.

yeah this is true vs v/t or mage the point is get ppl to break out res gear, which forces gear change, i.e possibly causing ur opposition to lose dmg, possible mobility and other related problems like DR and Ar.

if u dont do these things u will die very quick.

but with BvC especially NL there are so many items which help ease res stack, viper eye ring i also think an amu exist giving 60 + Light res etc so vs a v/t a barb can still stacik comfortably and still have a dr setup and vs a mage can stack fight the hammer side like a typical barb vs hammerdin without worring about foh.