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bvb discussion

Discussion in 'PvP' started by vknez, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. vknez

    vknez Diabloii.Net Member

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    bvb discussion

    i open this topic to discuss bvb equipment, skills and other relevant things

    i plan to have some equipment options:
    main weapon grief ba (option fools 40 ias 2xx ed umed ba)
    armor: sacred forty /eth uped toothrow (prudence?)
    helm is eth uped arreat
    storm with 9 dex 9 str jewel
    gloves : draculs/steels

    combo 1: grief+forty+dracs
    combo 2: grief+tooth+steels

    question about skill - 1 point in increased speed? thats 10 % less defence. whats the gain?

    1 puted 1 point in natural since i will have eni/trang/arach/beast in stash to play as random bvc

    my biggest concern is str wasted for sacred armor
     
  2. drake

    drake Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    i did some extensive math back in the day and these were the results (numbers are dmg x cth modified by life/def bonuses/penalties... not going into the details its a long story).

    furyz/ebug sacred prudence: 319
    griefz/toothrow: 309
    griefz/sacred fort: 280 (AP is close but not quite as good)

    this was done at lvl 90, so if you plan to level your barb higher than that the ow setups will be even further ahead, since ow damage scales up slightly as you level up.

    my griefz/toothrow one was damn near unbeatable, it certainly felt stronger than my previous grief/sacred fort one. havent tried a sacred prudence one.

    keep in mind that ow is hard to use... you have to wait 8 secs for it to do its job... hitting again only resets the duration... so if you hit twice within 8 secs you're losing out vs a raw dmg barb. in practice this makes the difference not as big as the numbers suggest. you can also get screwed by things like cold dmg charms or someone "mirroring" your whirls, which = a lot of hits in a short period of time. still, if you play well you'll win A LOT vs grief/fort. lastly, if you like being aggressive you wont like the playstyle ow forces on you (or you'll risk losing if you are). i like it personally, long duels create suspense :).

    optimal builds for each setup:

    toothrow (63 base str and i highly suggest 1 in inc. speed. this str is also ideal for fort/widow vs hdins and enigma/clegaws/doomz vs smiters):

    griefz
    SS (ed/ar/dex/-15% req., the -15% req. saves a lot of str)
    eth upd toothrow / AP fort for fun / ebug fort (BM, multiple armor types to choose from here which is practical: boneweave, AP, kraken, balrog, whatever you find)
    non upd arreats (cham'd for cold dmg using barbs and ed/life for those who dont have any)
    angelics, dracs, dungos, up'd gores (no reason to use rends)
    AR scs (scs > gcs and AR > max/AR)

    sacred fort (109 base str, 1 in inc. speed isnt bad to run after those annoying ow barbs... :smug:):

    griefz
    SS (ed/ar/dex/str)
    sacred fort / ebug sacred fort (BM, with this kind of armor this setup is significantly better than the toothrow one with an ebug fort of its own)
    up'd arreats (ed/ar/dex/str, eth up'd isnt as good as even a crap 32ed/8str or something)
    angelics, dracs, dungos, up'd gores (rends = less total dmg but more raw dmg... if you want to be very aggressive)
    AR or max/AR scs (both have almost exactly the same dmg output)

    ebug sacred prudence (117 base str, 1 in inc. speed and ideally you should max ironskin before ww... this much str is also nice for a brutal BM setup vs smiters: doomz, clegaws, fort, marrowwalk, coa, widow... :thumbsup:)

    furyz
    SS (cham'd and AR/life)
    ebug sacred prudence / ebug sacred stone (BM, massive def!)
    eth up'd arreats (here its worth it, you dont get much from ed with fury and with an up'd one you'd only be able to save 6 str from a jewel not 9, since 196 + 20 = 216 and you need 222. its especially worth it if you max ironskin first)
    angelics, dracs, dungos, up'd gores (zzz)
    AR scs (AR > max/AR here)

    lastly, keep in mind that the last two are interchangeable to some extent, but obviously optimizing one will mean that the other one will be a little subpar.
     
  3. mephiztophelez

    mephiztophelez Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    for sockets, i like to add DAMAGE!

    my current barb uses:

    hat: reg, un-up'd arreats with 30 max jool
    armour: AP fort (i'm on West NL and have a zbug, but i only use it against other zbug users)
    belt: dungos
    boots: up'd gores
    shield: SS with 40ed/-15% reqs
    wep: griefZ
    glubs: dracs
    jewellery: angelics.
    charms is a mix of ar/lifers and max/ar lifers

    vital stats:
    life: 6012
    AR: 20.5k
    Defence: 32k in zbug, 26k in reg AP.

    if there were no zbugs on West NL, i'd go with a 15ed sup sacred fort.

    the rough rule of thumb for BvB is: if you choose a Grief weapon, you may use any armour you like. if you choose a Fortitude armour, you may use any weapon you like.
     
  4. minuses

    minuses Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    Here would be the setup I would use:
    grief ba
    ss 40 ed/poison dmg jewel
    fort loricated mail (heavy armor better)
    angelics (yes 2 rings)
    arreats 40 ed/poison dmg jewel
    rends (you could use dracs but every 1% ed counts)
    40/15 dungo
    gores or dancers (I prefer gores)

    Dont put any points into increase speed and I mean none. Can be frozen is good in bvb since you can keep ias while very slow frw ww.
     
  5. alphaz

    alphaz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    why dancers?
     
  6. drake

    drake Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    40 ed > 30 max for grief users, not to mention the dex/str you can get on them. i showed you the math for it meph a while back and you still use that silly thing :)

    454 (p grief) x 0.4 = 181 (max/AR: 509 x 0.4 = 203)
    30 max i.e. 15 avg x 9.64 (864 ed with lvl 29 ww, lvl 27 mastery, 232 str and fort) = 144

    thats fine for grief/fort but you obviously dont know much about ow builds. not having CBF can be really bad. for the same reasons you like heavy armors, being frozen and no inc. speed, ow builds should have the opposite. lastly, poison is BM.

    to save dex i guess but i highly doubt its worth it.


     
  7. minuses

    minuses Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    I specifically said I prefer gores but if you want to save dex and get more fhr than you could choose dancers.


     
  8. alphaz

    alphaz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    @vknez
    I don't know which realm do you play but get at least 20k AR and 25k+ def. I personally aim for 24k+ AR and 30k+ def, the increase in cth is quite significant IMO. I prefer dracul's over steelrends but if you build around sacred fort, I think steelrends is the clear choice. My barb is built around a visionary diadem, draculs, grief and zbug fort, 24k AR, 33.5k def, 6.4k life. I put 1 point in nat resist and 0 in inc speed.
     
  9. Barloc

    Barloc Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    There is no need for fhr in BvB games.

    Also, being frozen is not at all an advantage for BvB's. Being frozen/decrep makes you get in more hits in PvM vs stagnant packs of monsters.

    However, 2 barbs ww'ing past each other, have the same amount of hit checks and the time duration regarding range is dictated by the barb moving fastest across the screen. In other words, you actually appear within each others attack range for the same amount of time.

    In most cases, being frozen in that sort of duel makes maneuvering more difficult, making the non-frozen barb able to reposition attacks much faster then you can. This is also why BvB's often carry a cold charm, so they can purposely mess with your function. Getting a solid attack on a non-moving ww barb is not something you can depend on, and is typically an accident at best, especially when you can't maneuver as well to keep the pressure up.

    Max OW damage is acheived @ lvl90. 533 is max damage for OW after PvP penalties. Has this changed?

    @vknez. I don't understand why one would want to go rends with an OW setup/tooth, especially if str is a concern of yours. Also, I agree with Meph on the jewels. Add some damage.

    As long as the weapon isn't an ebotd,beast, or edc...:smug:



     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  10. drake

    drake Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    Clvl=61-99: 25*(45*Clvl-1319)/256 (thats per second, so all that x 8)

    i dont know where this "lvl 90 for best ow" belief comes from. you get the best multiplier (45) at lvl 61 then it scales up. i never read about Clvl having a max of 90 and cant really see why it would either. with a 1/4 penalty vs players, lvl 90 = 533 indeed. lvl 95 = 577, a significant difference.

    and about the jewels, man you two are something. you got some easy math right in your face and you still pick the worst option :crazyeyes:. max dmg might be better with fury/fort, but certainly not grief/fort.


     
  11. vknez

    vknez Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    my jewel in storm is 7 fhr/9 dex/9 str/21 light res. there are better options (ar/ed) but cost much much more. jewel saves me 18 points

    my sa forty is made in 599 def armor (non ed obviously) cause i dont like repair costs of them :)
     
  12. Barloc

    Barloc Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    wow, I can't believe I've wrong about that for so long. you are obviously correct.:doh:

    I only suggested to add damage as vknez mentioned 9/9 with no other mods originally. Meph and I have different preferences on what that damage should be and I've always used ed% personally. With grief/fort I use 30/9/9 & 30/9/9/xx. But thanks for being a dick about it.



     
  13. vknez

    vknez Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    what do you people think about eth buged sacred prudence as legit item. 3500+ k defence vs 1900
     
  14. mephiztophelez

    mephiztophelez Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    i dislike e-bugged armours. i only use a zbug against other zbug or ebug users.

    standard sac fort is plenty.
     
  15. drake

    drake Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    lol no problem :p. meph was talking specifically about max dmg.

    well a p or near p toothrow can get over 2500. chilling armor from fort adds quite a bit of def too.

    but, you're right, even though it doesnt break its still ebugged. it doesnt do crap cept have an extra 1k def though, and in the end it doesnt lead to an overwhelmingly powerful build. with so many people making grief/fort (zzz) i say we tolerate it :thumbsup:


     
  16. vknez

    vknez Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    well direct difference in defence can be 1600 on armor multipled with 7x which gives more then 10 000 defence difference. prudence is self repair armor and imo legit to use.

    who can explain me existance of z bug ed forty? is that zod buged like in 1.09? if yes how can this exists since forty is ladder only runeword?
     
  17. alphaz

    alphaz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    there exist zbug forts and spirit monarch on west nl. the story that goes around tells of a small group of people who transferred zodbugged bases from nl to ladder during reset, duped the virgin bases and made ladder-rws. apart from that there are also zbugged ap coh, ap bramble, ap stone, fury bb, wirefleece stone, kingslayer conquest sword, kingslayer col sword..
     
  18. minuses

    minuses Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion


    Ok thats true that not having cbf has a huge disadvantage but I was just trying to say that very slow frw and ww do way more hits but the other barb will stay out of your way. As for poison being bm, who cares just use 40 ed/poison dmg jewels. It works very effectively with griefz.


     
  19. mephiztophelez

    mephiztophelez Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    fyi: i know of only ONE west NL z-bugged Fury Balrog Blade that has survived through all the banwaves.

    z-bugged eth Arreats Slayer guards also exist.

    zbug AP forts are reasonably common in west NL bvb circles, however "perm" zbug forts are as rare as hens teeth. i've had mine for over four years now and it hasn't gone pop, however, everytime i load that character i half expect it to be gone.

    again: i only use such ****e against others who use them. getting a zbug on West NL is a HUGE barrier for new barbs to try and overcome. duelling a sac fort barb while wearing a zbug is a little imbalanced.

    my armour is 2454 defence @ low str req, theirs is 1906 defence with a str req of 232. i have several 'k more defence along with heaps of extra life (31k def and 6k life vs ~27k def and 5k life as a rough guide). however, the sac fort barb will hit appreciably harder.



     
  20. fledgeling

    fledgeling Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: bvb discussion

    you use dracul gloves on pvp characters?
    doesnt the chance to cast life tap make dueling pointless?
     

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