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Bush Propaganda on Social Security

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by llad12, Apr 12, 2005.

  1. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    Bush Propaganda on Social Security

    Just when I don't think it is possible, he does it again.

    Our President has sunk to another low.

    In order to attempt to prop-up support for his failing privatization plan of Social Security, Bush has attempted to pull off a real doozy.


    Read and listen to this:

    NPR



    This is nothing but pure propaganda. This grandstanding event at West Virginia (in front of reporters and cameras) was made for one reason and one reason alone --> to instill fear of the current Social Security System on an unsuspecting American public.

    What a load of BS ...

    The Social Security "IOU's" are treasury notes ... much the same as a common US Savings Bond. They are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States Government.

    No investment is safer ... anywhere.

    Investing in treasury notes has made the Trust Fund much more solvent with hundreds of millions of dollars in accrued interest over the years.



    I find these tactics disgusting ... but, considering the "source", I am really not surprised.
     
  2. Jigga-Scrooge

    Jigga-Scrooge IncGamers Member

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    you sure do like this bush guy. i counted 17 threads made by you with "Bush" in the title of them.
     
  3. Amra

    Amra IncGamers Member

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    I wonder how you felt when Clinton wanted to do the same thing?

    Either way, it's still money they took out of the fund... and they are not doing it so the fund can gain interest either. They are spending it right and left.

    While I agree the Social Security system has it's merits, it is an intergenerational Ponzi Scheme. Simple math shows that without change it will collapse. Surely you can see that?

    That is hardly propaganda.

    Extra props to President Bush for being a leader on this.
     
  4. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    He's my fav. Didn't you know?

    :rolleyes:

    I can not really believe you said that ...

    Do you have any concept of what a bank does with your money ... in your savings and checking accounts?

    Do you think they keep it socked away?

    Do you have any idea of what you are talking about?
     
  5. Jimi-

    Jimi- IncGamers Member

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    if you like bush or clinton, you should watch MadTv theres a imitator there that imitates them so good if you would hear him on the radio you would have thought he was bush or clinton, its really hilarious :lol: , i recomend it
     
  6. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    So basically the fix for social security is to stop spending so goddamn much. *hint-hint-for-the-Republican'ts-in-office*

    I'm still waiting to see that simple math instead of hundreds of frantic claims that it exists and it's simple. It stands to reason that population growth will keep the dependency ratio fairly static, and SS only pays out for half of our dependency ratio anyway. Even the problem caused by medical advances cancels itself out by enabling people to work longer careers, which last I heard was exactly what people were doing. I'm thinking I liked your "stop spending so goddamn much" idea a lot more than this ghostmath.
     
  7. Necrolestes

    Necrolestes IncGamers Member

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    Four score and seven years ago...social security WORKED!

    Frank Caliendo is truly a national treasure...unlike the Bush social security plan. It really won't affect anyone collecting social security now and anyone under the age of thirty shouldn't expect social security to be the same now as it will be when they're old enough to collect benefits. It's the 35-50 year old population that has to worry (private investments are a stop gap measure at best...at worst, the rich get richer and the poor get the shaft).
     
  8. Amra

    Amra IncGamers Member

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    Yes, I have a very good idea of what I am talking about. Are you willing to listen or just continue to bash President Bush?

    A bank exists to make money. That is not the reason Social Security exists.

    I'll make a more complete reply when I have time.
     
  9. Rius666

    Rius666 IncGamers Member

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    My belief is that Social Security needs to be abolished and that it will eventually collapse (right around the time of my retirement, which means i get screwed). The only reason social security was established in the first place was because FDR was trying to pull the country out of the Great Depression by instilling a bunch of his programs. Social SECURITY was designed to force people to save their money for retirement instead of spend it/waste it.

    My belief is that social security is very socialistic (interesting relationship in names) and that all retirement plans should be privatized and self funded. People should have full control over their own money and should invest it however they see fit. If they are too stupid to save for retirement then so be it.

    Of course there is so much dependency on social security (and dependency on big government in general; I don't even want to get into that conversation) I don't really see how the transition to privatize social security can be accomplished any time soon. This change would have a dramatic and wide reach effect that would affect many aspects of the economy, government, people's lives etc.
     
  10. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    Oh ... please do.

    ----------

    I agree. Banks are in the business to make profit. That's why they loan your hard-earned bucks out to people (you don't know) in far risker investments than treasury securites and still pay you interest.

    That's right! Your money is not in the bank. It is loaned out to third parties and they give you a worthless IOU!

    But it's not really worthless is it? If your balance is under $100,000, then your accounts are insured.

    By whom you may ask?

    The government of the United States of America.

    ------

    For your information:

    Social Security

    And this:

    SSA

    So go ahead ... believe anything that George W. Bush, your apparent Messiah, tells you. Get on your knees, lick his boots, and brown-nose his butt while he tries his best to drive this highly successful insurance program/ safety net for our senior citizens into financial ruin.

    The American people aren't buying his garbage and it will be a cold day in hell before he gets this BS through Congress.
     
  11. Amra

    Amra IncGamers Member

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    Very mature of you.

    :thumbsup:

    For your information, I can make up my own mind on issues.

    I have thought Social Security needed improving long before President Bush was elected.
     
  12. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    So ... I see you didn't like my little phrasing about your hero. :mad:

    Too bad ... so sad

    No doubt you can and do.

    I, however, have heard little argument or defense about this issue that you posted:

    Cat got your tongue?

    Perhaps it was those US Government web sites that I linked to ... tough to argue with hard cold facts (about interest paid) staring directly at you, isn't it?


    I have paid SS taxes since 1969 ... far longer than you. I certainly don't need someone to tell me about how this system works.

    I, however, will be damned if I will let some young workers get out of paying for my benefits when I retire; dump them into some mutual funds or stocks, and subsequently have the government potentially bail them out down-the-road because they lost their money in the stock exchange and can't pay their bills.

    Have a good day.
     
  13. Rius666

    Rius666 IncGamers Member

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    So am I right to understand that you want to government to force us to give the money that we've earned to help pay for your retirement?

    Like I said before even though I'm still young I've never liked Social Security just because it's a little way to communistic (sorry i said socialist b4). I understand that changing social security would be a daunting task but that doesn't mean i have to like it or the concept of it :).
     
  14. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    That's the way it works, my friend.

    Excluding the funds held in the SS trust, the taxes paid by you and me go toward benefits of today's retirees, disabled, and survivors.

    I have paid SS for 36 years. I paid for my parent generation's benefits. It will be a cold day in hell before I agree to let the younger workers buck the system now and throw our nation into vastly higher debt.

    We baby boomers took the responsiblity to see that this safety net was in place for those that needed it.

    Generation X and those beyond will now take their turn ... and your children will see to yours.

    By the way, I already have my own personal retirement saved beyond Social Security in 401's, IRA, Keoughs, and company benefits. It is currently worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. You should see to yours ...



    You can also drop your John Birch, Pinko Commie line my friend ...

    As Clinton once said: "That old dog won't hunt".
     
  15. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

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    As the old man :lol: has said, putting away for retirement early. 401k's are compounding interest and taken out before takes, so are a great way to do it--I just set mine up last week. Basically, the more I put in now, the more it makes an impact when I retire. Forget what I put in there 20 years from now when I can afford it, what I put in now will earn interest and interest on the interest for 40 years. Wahoo! :drink:
     
  16. jmervyn

    jmervyn IncGamers Member

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    Not that I really want to get into this thread, but - Pontificate much?

    Seriously, what is different between what he's doing at what Clin-Ton did (other than having the other party fanatically screaming obscenities about his intent, that is)? It is a problem, it has been recognized for some time by both parties, and the fact that the DNC has decided on total obstructionism as the key to their success just makes me a sadder panda than I already am.

    So much for the promise of cooperation...
     
  17. Rius666

    Rius666 IncGamers Member

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    That is a really good idea to most of the young people here. I took up that advice a few years back when i was around 17. I'm 19 now and even though i dont haev much (IRA, some long term stocks) it's at least a start.

    As for the "commie line" that isn't meant to be some emotional rah-rah punchline but it's something that I actually feel. I believe this and I thought I would share it since that is relevant to this thread topic. Please understand that I am not trying to change anyone's mind over SS and don't expect to.

    And also as a side note I hope this doesn't fall prey to the affliction of so many other politial/economical threads that have come before this. No one is going to change their mind about this, and hopefully this won't just degenerate to another furious shouting/bashing thread. This is the main reason I don't participate in 99% of the political threads...they always come down mindless bashing or insults in the end.
     
  18. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    Like looking into a living mirror? Maybe that's why you two bicker so much.


    I just like this because the Clin-Ton fever is spreading. Catch it!
     
  19. Necrolestes

    Necrolestes IncGamers Member

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    Inter arma silent leges

    The same thing happens in Congress all the time. The OTF is merely a microcosm of the US government's legislative body. The left and right love to make themselves known and they love to make anyone who doesn't agree with them look like a fool for not subscribing to their opinions (which they often consider gospel truth and thus unassailable). It's just like Crossfire or Hannity and Idiot: he who shouts loudest is heard. This, of course, accomplishes nothing more than pseudosupremacy of one party/view over another party/view which leads to bitter feelings, obstruction, and the ultimate sense that nothing was accomplished.

    With two wars going on, the extreme right insists that the left (or indeed, anyone who doesn't agree with the extreme right) is unpatriotic. The extreme left counters with the accusation that the extreme right wishes to establish a theocracy based only on Christian principles while at the same time suppressing anyone's opinions that differ from those of the administration. What does this teach us: absolutely nothing other than that some people never grew up and are still fighting over who peed in their sandbox.
     
  20. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    Howdy Jmeryvn! Nice to hear from ya ... :D

    Ya, I admit that I stood up on my soap-box, grabbed my suspenders and barked out vociferously.

    I guess we both do that now and again 'eh?

    Was I a little harsh with Amra? You bet I was ... I did it for a reason. When someone comes in with erroneous ideas about how the Social Security Trust fund works and then gives kudos to Bush's propaganda, he is going to catch holy hell from me.

    I just love the Bush administration's ideas of cooperation: Do what we want and you are cooperating. :p

    You know as well as I that Bush's privatization plan has nothing to do with the solvency of Social Security. It is little more than an attempt to dismantle this popular system which protects our elderly and disadvantaged.

    There are many ways to fix the "solvency problem" of SS. Increasing the tax ceiling from say $90,000 to $125,000 or minimum age limit are just some of the ideas which have been suggested ...

    If Bush really wants to address this issue, then he should drop his "personal account plan" and get on with it. The Democrats will respond.
     

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