Buriza worth the upgrade?

Grobyc

Diabloii.Net Member
Buriza worth the upgrade?

I have a 200%ED Buriza and I'm wondering if I should upgrade it. I have an upgraded WWS but it feels a little slow. Buriza could also put Critical Strike to use and not worry about piercing (which cancels each other out since I usually spend 10 points into one or the other). The only thing I'm concerned about is the speed of the Buriza since it's actually a bit slow compared to the WWS, I'm not so worried about the strength requirements on it since the damage it does compensates for it.
 

Grobyc

Diabloii.Net Member
Can't seem to edit my post, so sorry about this double post.

Did some calculations and with the 200% increase on damage..

Buriza (Ballista)
99-165 (99-185)

Buriza after upgrade (to Collosus Crossbow)
96-273 (96-393)

So, it gives about 100 more damage from upgrade. With a 50% crit chance (just taking the maximum damage since the minimum is practically the same), it'll deal 330 un-upgraded, 546 when upgraded. It also has ~100 addition cold damage and ~120 to maximum damage. It could easily reach 12/3.5 Strafe which equals out to about 2 seconds for the Strafe cycle.

Now as for comparison with my 162% WWS...

Witchwild String (Short Siege Bow)
34-78

Witchwild String after upgrade (Diamond Bow)
86-104

With practically 100% crit chance, it'll deal 68-156 un-upgraded, 172-208 after upgrade. It could Amplify, but the chances are so small/random, I find it difficult to calculate. It could reach 9/2 with some gears which equals out to about a little over 1 second.

I count the deadly strike from WWS and pierce from Buriza as the same to keep things simple since going WWS would give 2x the damage but with 50% pierce and Buriza has 50% crit with 100% pierce. As for speed vs. damage, WWS attacks ~twice as fast as Buriza, so it deals about 344-416 every two seconds. Buriza deals 96-393 over that same amount of time, but since I calculate pierce and crit as the same, it'll deal about 192-786, adding the cold damage, it'll deal ~242-836. So it turns out as...

Over 2 second period..

WWS deals 344-416
Buriza deals 242-836

Overall, the damage wise, it seems like the Buriza beats WWS by ~300 damage.

Did I do the calculations right? I'm kind of confusing myself.
 

Tarantella

Diabloii.Net Member
If your partying with a summoner who uses amplify damage I'd recommend using the WWS as primary with the buriza on weapon swap. :cool:
 

Grobyc

Diabloii.Net Member
My calculations are a bit off, I forgot to factor in the rest of the arrows/bolts that comes from Strafe, so the Buriza actually deals ~3000 more damage assuming that all 10 bolts hit. At least I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

So assuming that the 3k extra damage is correct, I think it's actually worth the upgrade as a comparison to WWS. Or 1k more damage compared to the un-upgraded Buriza.

The strength requirement isn't a big deal to me, it's just strength. If it wasn't into strength, it would be into dex and that 60 dex or so won't add 300 more damage.
 

pinov

Diabloii.Net Member
slightly off topic (help)

i made a burzazon from a guide and come to find pearce/guided arrow don't work what should i do with this char that now has 20 guided arrow
10 multi shot 6 crit is it salvageable or should i start over?
 

Grobyc

Diabloii.Net Member
superdave said:
60 dex=60 ed
That would give about 60 damage, not enough to sway me from the strength argument.

pinov: Guided Arrow stopped working with pierce after 1.09. Your zon could still work for PvP, but for PvM, it's hardly worth using since I find that Strafe is better for PvM.
 

superdave

Diabloii.Net Member
looks like you will be making a big mistake if you are comparing wws and buriza damages this way....forgetting about upgrading for a moment....it doesn't really matter what damage shows on the lying character screen....you should be trying to determine how much damage you can do over a set period of TIME....using the speeds you quoted there is a considerable difference between a zon shooting 12/3.5 and one shooting 8/2...of course there are other modifiers that should also be considered like amp on the wws....and NO the chance is not a small as you have stated...on a properly built strafer with good a/r and adequate pierce amp will trigger often

bow comparisons have been beat to death is past threads i am sure with a little searching you can dig up some very good posts that will answer your questions....ask yourself this....why do so many more ladder zons now use a wws than use a burito?

btw ....you should rethink the ed from stats.....check out the facts and formulas link to determine how much more the ed will actually help you....it is >>>>>than the 60 points you think
 

Grobyc

Diabloii.Net Member
I have an upgraded WWS actually and the amp doesn't happen as often as I would like and it doesn't kill as fast which is why I'm considering an upgrade Buriza.

As for your question, my guess is that most people prefer the speed over the damage. Also, if the amp made such a significant difference, wouldn't more people be using Atma's Scarab?
 

superdave

Diabloii.Net Member
Grobyc said:
I have an upgraded WWS actually and the amp doesn't happen as often as I would like and it doesn't kill as fast which is why I'm considering an upgrade Buriza.
if an upped wws is not killing as fast as a buriza then you have problems with either stat allocation or equip....post them here and maybe we can help out with some suggestions

Grobyc said:
As for your question, my guess is that most people prefer the speed over the damage. Also, if the amp made such a significant difference, wouldn't more people be using Atma's Scarab?
didn't you just answer your own question here? yes speed kills....most zons will try to reach 9/2 or 8/2 so a cats eye or highlords will be the ammy of choice...an atmas is usually high on the list of pvm zons who don't require the 20 ias

now don't get me wrong i am not knocking the buriza....i have a few zons using them.....yes even an upped version....they are fun to use and have no problem soloing hell
 

Grobyc

Diabloii.Net Member
90 Strength
100 Vitality
base Energy
300 Dex (give or take)

20 Penetrate
20 Strafe
17 Valkyrie
9 Pierce
rest is distributed into Avoid, Dodge, and Evade

Helmet: Stealskull socketed with Perfect Topaz
Weapon: Upgraded WWS socketed with Shael and Nef
Armor: Twitchthroe (planning to switch to Wealth)
Gloves: Hand of Broc
Belt: Goldwrap
Boots: Sander's Riprap (going to switch to War Travelers)
Rings: Two Nagel
Amulet: 29% MF amulet

It's a Pit Strafezon, level 84 with 85%+ chance to hit the monsters in the Pit. Has a 84 Might merc also.
 

pinov

Diabloii.Net Member
thanks for clearing up why it did not work ill keep the charicter for a trade mule but some suggestions as to a propper build would be appreciated i like multishot havent tried strafe and the best bow i have is the burza im new and poor so getting better right away isn't an option

if i were to socket the burza what should i put in it
 

Grobyc

Diabloii.Net Member
Most people don't need to socket the Buriza, but it depends on your gear setup. Most common are Shaels, but some put in Nef for the knockback.

Multi generally isn't suggested for crossbows because they shoot slower than bows. Most people don't use Multi unless they have a Faith. It's just what I have observed anyway.
 

pinov

Diabloii.Net Member
Grobyc said:
Most people don't need to socket the Buriza, but it depends on your gear setup. Most common are Shaels, but some put in Nef for the knockback.

Multi generally isn't suggested for crossbows because they shoot slower than bows. Most people don't use Multi unless they have a Faith. It's just what I have observed anyway.
so should i do straif im new and trying not to start over again so point allocation and stast suggestions are appreacated i have burza 185 i think and most of mavanna's set and a ammy +2 passive, gloves +2 bow skills
 

Grobyc

Diabloii.Net Member
If Buriza is all you have to work with, then Strafe is probably a safe bet, Multi could work, but it's generally pretty slow, at least when compared to bows.

The Mavina set is more towards Frozen Arrow since it improves cold damage.

As for stats, for amazons, enough strength for your bow/cross bow, 100 Vitality, and the rest into Dex. But it's just what I do, it depends on what you're going to do with it (i.e. for PvM or PvP).
 

sasja

Diabloii.Net Member
superdave said:
if an upped wws is not killing as fast as a buriza then you have problems with either stat allocation or equip....post them here and maybe we can help out with some suggestions
Beg to respectfully differ. At low ias (as in hc or mf char), the Buri is just a killing machine while WWS's damage output is much lower. At high ias, the WWS catches up, and eventually become the faster killer (though at very high char levels, the Buri actually wins back a lot of territory). If you're interested in my methods, check out the damage thread.
 

superdave

Diabloii.Net Member
sasja said:
Beg to respectfully differ. At low ias (as in hc or mf char), the Buri is just a killing machine while WWS's damage output is much lower. At high ias, the WWS catches up, and eventually become the faster killer (though at very high char levels, the Buri actually wins back a lot of territory). If you're interested in my methods, check out the damage thread.
yes it is an excellent thread...i have pointed many people to it already....reread the part of my post that you quoted...."if an upped wws is not killing as fast as a buriza then you have problems with either stat allocation or equip".....i am sure you will agree that a properly equipped(ias) zon using an upped wws with all stat points properly allocated will kill faster than any buriza user....yes their are times when a buriza will kill faster than a wws but the zon would be sacrificing proper equip for other purposes....mf as you pointed out is one of these purposes.
 

Jek

Diabloii.Net Member
superdave said:
yes their are times when a buriza will kill faster than a wws but the zon would be sacrificing proper equip for other purposes....mf as you pointed out is one of these purposes.
What gear does the amazon have to sacrifice to switch to buriza? Using buriza would free up alot of empty slots, you don't need Razortail (or any "wasted" points into pierce), do you even need IAS other than a Shael for the fastest buriza strafe?
 
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