Building my first PvP char ever

[Jary]

Wow sonny, you've gotten so friggin' good, I'm so proud of you :thumbsup:
I prolly couldn't have made a more perfect build myself, well done >.>

The FHR breakpoints for Bears are 54, and 89. It's up to you really which one you want to hit. I generally just settled at 54, but I know a lot of ppl really like hitting the 89% bp.

possible options:
-jalals (facet), bloodfists, 5%fhr sc = 55
-jalals 'shael', bloodfists, dungos/crafted(fhr) or 12% FHR sc = 90+
which ever works in your benefit

I like the added strength on your crafted belt though, that's pretty nice. I'm big on using socketed Mage Plates for your Enigma or COH, cause with druids your defense is never really gonna be that great so it's almost neglibible. Therefore, if you decide to use ENigma as primary (which I suggest you should >.<) you can always make a COH mage plate, make a few item switches, and still be able to hit 156 I believe.

Using Enigma or COH with a good stormshield will get you 43% DR... and while that's not perfect I think it's the better option. Like you said, in a melee vs melee duel like against a ww barb, you can always stash dungos so it's all g. One of the things I don't like about dungos is... the "+vitality/per lvl" doesn't get amplified by lycanthropy & oak like "+life" items do (aka the crafted belt, bloodfists, GC's, etc). Therefore, with a crafted belt you might add like 300-400 life after the bonuses, whereas the +40 vitality on dungos will only add a yucky 60 or so. But still, better than nothing ^.^ That's why I sorta ignored it on my first post, it's sorta a personal preference of mine but you can go either way you want though

 

[TigerPrawn]

Not only is it life gain through the STR points you save from using Enigma, you also get 5% life from the armor itself, 8% PDR, 45% run/walk, +2 skills, which effectively gives you; more health, more damage, more AR, etc. and of course as I noted before +1 tele. To me that's versatility. I use it as my default armor and do just fine against all classes. Melee? If the fight ever turns in my opponents favor I have the option of backing off, tele with fissure drops, reshift and pound them when they sit in a fissure. It's good stuff and I like it alot.

I don't think its the right or wrong armor, its what works for me. Even with your high str, I would equip it and give it go and see if its to your liking.

I was in the same mindset as Verashiden until I actually rebuilt and tried it and I like it ALOT more than any other option out there.

---

As for FHR, I really like the 86%+ break point. Especially in bearform. I use... Jalal's (30), Bloodfist (30), Bloodbelt (17%), SS gc +12% FHR (12) for a total of 89%.

 

[Verashiden]

How much life did you gain in the end, Tiger? Also, I've never played pure PvP FC. My Flaming Rabies needs three armors to run (Nigma, CoH (Blizz and FOH), and Bramble (Smiters, Barbs)). In my case, I couldn't imagine only running one armor, which I assume you'd have to do if you're stating around Enigma.

 

[TigerPrawn]

I actually made this FC druid for pure PVP, but I found even with my listed gear, PVM is no sweat. Even fire immunes die fast to merc/maul. I can't give an exact amount gained but I can give you an idea...

7 skillers with 44-29 life...
7 various 17-20 scs

Only 2 hard points in Lycan and only 1 hard point in Oak, and only a cheapy 1 bo CTA.

My first build I think I had only near... 225-250 hard vit points. With this new build I have around 380ish with max block (without relying on any items for dex except Ravenfrost).

Even without lycan at lvl 10-20 hard points I'm hitting around 7.5-8K HP. When I built my first FC bear, I had 5K-5.5K hp with maxed Lycan. If I had maxed out Lycanthropy I'm sure I'd be somewhere in the 9K range maybe even 10K with a better CTA.

The real reason I wear enigma, although the +life is definitely nice, is the r/w and tele. It gives me an edge, even in melee fights, where I can run off screen in wereform, unshift without them even knowing, lay fissure, and reshift and my opponents have no idea. Being able to walk fast vs Zons, melee is extremely nice too as we all know running = crap block.

 

[Verashiden]

Hmm, interesting. How often do you find yourself actually using tele?

 

[superjayson]

SuperJayson: Thx a lot for all the good advice! I have gotten started to craft Blood Belts and the best I've come up with is: Mesh belt, 7 OW, +21str, +39 life +minors. Using this I will loose some DR (I will not be able to Ber my equipment) and 10FHR. Is it still worth it or is Dungos better? Perhaps Dungos against Phys dmg chars only?

try it out. the ow's and 39 life will be a nice boost. i only use 35 dr on my fc druid now and have done fine. you may want to keep a dungo's in stash against some chars where that extra DR will become significant.

Yes, I will try to get a good Cerebus against high def chars. But what to do to get FHR? I am leaning towards Bloodfist, but I will need a lot of ss/12 charms for it to work, or could I compensate by using a duress against highdef chars to get the FHR from it and only needing 2 (or something) 12 FHR charms?

I socketed my cerebus with a shael. 20 from that + 30 from bloodfist and you're already half way there. With this setup im usually using duress too.

Armor: Although arguable, I feel very strongly about using Enigma now. At first I hated the idea, and chose the duress route. However, after using Duress and Enigma, I find Enigma vastly superior. 45% r/w is no joke. This is what get's me in the face of even the fastest casters. Coupled with charms, boots, etc, you'll be a speed demon. The +str per lvl is so high that at lvl 75-80 if you stat around torches, anni, enigma you may not have to add a single point into STR. The most definitive attribute is the +1 Teleport. I find often times I shift out of Bear form and into caster form for some varied strategy.

Enigma is caster armor. that doesn't mean its not good against melee, but other armors are better. Aka duress and a jewelers plate of the whale socketed with 2 fire factes, which btw offers you more damage AND life than your enigma. The FRW is so good against casters, but so pointless against melee.

Many argue that statting around Enigma restricts you from being versatile. I beg to differ as I find being able to tele about caster form, drpping fissure, Volcanos, then shifting back when needed is very versatile and has added another card up my sleeve

the whole point of not stating around enigma is that you're not a caster char. you're a melee char, one that has the potential to have alot of different setups. Stating around enigma only gives you a few hundred (400ish on my fc druid) extra life which in PvP isnt all that significant. Having the ability to swap different armors for different situations IS significant and can change the out come of a duel. Besides you can still teleport/shift back when not stating around Enigma.

ive been in your position stating around an enigma and not stating around enigma. all with highend gear and in the end having those extra options is MUCH better than 400+ extra life.

Not only is it life gain through the STR points you save from using Enigma, you also get 5% life from the armor itself, 8% PDR, 45% run/walk, +2 skills, which effectively gives you; more health, more damage, more AR, etc. and of course as I noted before +1 tele. To me that's versatility. I use it as my default armor and do just fine against all classes. Melee? If the fight ever turns in my opponents favor I have the option of backing off, tele with fissure drops, reshift and pound them when they sit in a fissure. It's good stuff and I like it alot.

Like I said the life gained through stating around enigma is 400-500 which isnt that significant in PvP. The 8%PRD isnt that significant as most duels (especially for an fc druid) end before that lack of 8%DR actually becomes significant. And for duels where that extra DR is needed you have other options (using dungo's, ber'ing stormshield) that still allow you the versatility of swaping different armors when ever you want. The 45% FRW is only significant when dueling casters or amazons's and you're only going to be dueling them half the time. Against melee that FRW is useless. the +2 to skills is easily matched by a jewelers plate of the whale socketed with 2 fire facets.

I love enigma on an fc druid and its a good all around armor (especially if you cant afford extra armor options to keep in stash), but dont try and convince anyone that it is THE armor to use (thats bad advice), cause there is better armors for different situations. Ask any experienced shapeshifter player here, all of them have at least 2 pieces of armor they use regulary and they only benefit from it.

Boots: Although I still find Aldur's superior to any other boot, I do like IK boots alot. It's a nice AR boost if you're lacking and if you're good on FR you won't need Aldur's.

i use to think this too, but the AR from the ik boots doesnt seem to get multiplied as much as i hope it would. not enough to justify using it over more life and a huge chunk of fire res.

Thx for that answer, I do have an enigma. The thing is, my str is kinda high atm so I would really have to remake to have use of its full potential. A bit of a problem it may be I would sure gain a lot of life. However, I really would like to know, how much will I miss the possibility to change my armour? What do you'll say?

dont remake. trust me. you'll like having multiple options with armor alot more in the end.

 

[TigerPrawn]

Verashiden, to answer your question. I switch into caster mode pretty much against low hp chars, chars that need just a little nudge to be killed, when I'm losing a melee fight ( unshift, fissure, reshift attack), punish sloppy/long WW by sin and barbs, and sometimes just for the fun of it.

The tele really helps me setup my fissures and even tele volcanoes many times.

Punishing barbs, WWsin, and zons is my favorite though. Many WWsin try to MB and tele WWin away from you so i jus drop a fissure on them mid WW, usually kills or takes off a nice chunk, same for barbs. Zons with super speed that I can't catch, I turn around and run away like I'm retreating, they chase i drop fissure right where I ran through they follow and usually die. If they survive I walk/volcano and reshift for the life and that's usually it for the zons.

I just want to make sure people know I'm not a PVP pro, but I do have ALOT of pvp exp and success with the FC druid build I've made.

Enigma is caster armor. that doesn't mean its not good against melee, but other armors are better. Aka duress and a jewelers plate of the whale socketed with 2 fire factes, which btw offers you more damage AND life than your enigma. The FRW is so good against casters, but so pointless against melee.

I beg to differ about r/w being pointless in melee. I actually do like to go at it in melee, if I'm losing for whatever reason I shockwave, take off, unshift, fissure, reshift and engage in melee again. The tele helps with resetting a melee fight. Also it may force the other player to run instead of walk to catch up with you, thus lowering block/def if you're able to land a hit during that time.

the whole point of not stating around enigma is that you're not a caster char. you're a melee char, one that has the potential to have alot of different setups. Stating around enigma only gives you a few hundred (400ish on my fc druid) extra life which in PvP isnt all that significant. Having the ability to swap different armors for different situations IS significant and can change the out come of a duel. Besides you can still teleport/shift back when not stating around Enigma.

Again, I must disagree. No one says a FC druid must be nothing but melee. I play my druid MAINLY focused on FC, but hey we're invested heavily in Elemental skills, might aswell use them. I enjoy the surprise attacks of tele fissure, reshifting and FC all over again. Furthermore, in PVP i do find 400-500 very significant especially against ww sins and characters tat chip away at life with OW or Poisons. I will have to do testing/calculations when I get a chance on how much exact life I have gotten from Enigma itself and the savings on str.

Like I said the life gained through stating around enigma is 400-500 which isnt that significant in PvP. The 8%PRD isnt that significant as most duels (especially for an fc druid) end before that lack of 8%DR actually becomes significant. And for duels where that extra DR is needed you have other options (using dungo's, ber'ing stormshield) that still allow you the versatility of swaping different armors when ever you want. The 45% FRW is only significant when dueling casters or amazons's and you're only going to be dueling them half the time. Against melee that FRW is useless. the +2 to skills is easily matched by a jewelers plate of the whale socketed with 2 fire facets.

I've already mentioned my reason for loving r/w. Another positive is your walk speed will be very quick for those who swap run and walk frequently in duels.

I love enigma on an fc druid and its a good all around armor (especially if you cant afford extra armor options to keep in stash), but dont try and convince anyone that it is THE armor to use (thats bad advice), cause there is better armors for different situations. Ask any experienced shapeshifter player here, all of them have at least 2 pieces of armor they use regulary and they only benefit from it.

Please don't miss quote or misinterpret what I said :thumbsup:. I said that Enigma is merely the RIGHT armor FOR ME and my play style. I merely suggested he try it out and see if it is a good fit for him. Nowhere do I state it is the best end all be all of armors.:grin:

i use to think this too, but the AR from the ik boots doesnt seem to get multiplied as much as i hope it would. not enough to justify using it over more life and a huge chunk of fire res.

I like aldurs but I get FR elsewhere and AR works against ALL classes whereas FR works versus a few. Although I do keep some stashed just in case.

dont remake. trust me. you'll like having multiple options with armor alot more in the end.

Try out different setups before you remake. I happened to like enigma alot more than switching out armors and it works very well for me.


Another PVP focus that no one has really touched on is Team PVP. I enjoy team pvp very much and swapping gear mid match is pretty much impossible. Again Enigma works FOR ME, and its role in Team PVP benefits me greatly. There are many times when a 2v2 turns into a 1v1 due to partners dying and I have less than 100 life left. I go caster mode, drop fissure/volcano, tele around and hopefully find an opening for a finishing attack. It's great fun!

 

[superjayson]

you didnt have to say it straight up, but the way you went off it sounded implied. I just had to give my piece from someone who has devoted all his d2 experience to building this char.

and thats fine if thats your play style, im in no means trying to say "no im right you're wrong change it now", but im just trying to give the thread creator the best possible options for his char.

Enigma is still a good all around armor, but there is better armors for different situations. why take that away all for for 400+ life ?

ps what realm are you on ?

 

[Verashiden]

Just a note, Fissure activates Shape Shifting's cool down. So it's more like cast, attempt to dodge for 3 sec cooldown, shift. It's even worse with Volcano >.>.

 

[superjayson]

and doing that in a melee game will be quite hard to pull off and even easier for your opponent to deal with. Providing he see's it coming.

 

[Jary]

I'ma have to agree with my bro TigerPrawn here, 'cause I feel like his playing style reminds me a lot of... well, myself

I don't really think that Enigma gets branded as a caster item, 'cause I don't think Fireclaw "DRUIDS" are specifically Melee... branding them that, like Sonny's sorta throwin' out here, takes away from the versatility this amazing build has with fissure.

Fissures one of the most overlooked skills on this build. I've fought this over with Porky time and time again, who's stubborn and isn't willing to see FC Bears as anything but melee builds. I actually applaud how someone else other than me is actually hyping the versatility of using fissures and incorporating it in their duels casuse it really is KILLER in the right situations.

I realize fissure has cast delays, but what's wrong with just fissuring and holding your ground? Max block yo :thumbsup: ...that way they're getting the pain just as much as you, and if you're life starts getting low I'd commonly shape back into bear and duke it out Shift+FC for the last few hits. Even with the cast delays, if you tele away and drop a fissure at your feet... keep running right after you cast, then tele lol. It's sorta like you're getting a running start before flying hehe.

I'm not really making any serious points here, but I do like talking stategy, it's just fun for me

*I'm not so sure... only 400+ life? seems sorta low man.
He has a good 100 vitality on you, so 100*1.5 = 150 extra life I think. 150 *+400% +150 > 750 total life after bonuses. I'm almost positive, it's gotta up there at least.
[oak (~100%), BO (70%), Werebear+Lycan (~250%>) = 420%+ life] Those are my calc.

 

[TigerPrawn]

That's why tele is so great, provides manueverability. Also remember with gear and enigma my r/w is 120%+ most of the time. So yea, I got quite a bit of speed without teleing.

I've dealt with WW barbs with tele, I've dealt with wolfbarbs. I like fissuring and outrunnin dodging fast melee chars and then shifting back to melee them again. Shoving a fissure into a missed WW is a great thing IMO and it is a great way to exploit and take advantage of a players mistake.

I'm on WEST and I've played and talked alot to Jary about my build, so I'm not just spoutin ot air :grin: .

As for Volcano, I almost only use it on stationary Zons or players who have a sliver of life left. It's way to easy to get out of and you're right its even worst shifting back to bear after using Volcano.

I must agree with you Jayson, enigma is a very good all around armor, and I do not disagree that swapping armors may be more beneficial, but for me, I prefer the all around armor especially in team pvp or FFA pvp. In 1v1 tournament style PVP switching armors takes a serious advantage.

and doing that in a melee game will be quite hard to pull off and even easier for your opponent to deal with. Providing he see's it coming.

That's the thing, most don't see it coming, and those that do? Are they gonna stop WW? Nah, prob try to adapt and find a way to avoid fissure. Doesn't hurt if you're mobile enough to take control of the fight though, you move the opponent where you want with fissure... Or they run into it and get hurt.

This is the usual scenario for me. I duel my friend who uses a ghost and my other friend who has a wolfrbarb with WW, very fun to duel them as they're both very mobile and wear a bit of sorb to negate fissure.

These are my experiences with enigma, fc bear, and my playstyle. Nothing should be taken as the absolute right way, but I do admit great success with the way I play and most people stand in awe at the FC bear and want to see gear immediately... then they laugh at my PB :cry: and ask to see my real weapon.

 

[superjayson]

you keep telling me why enigma is so great, but you dont get that i AGREE. i just dont agree that you should be forcing yourself to ONLY using enigma. This is coming from someone who wants to be prepared for any situation in the best way possible. for me being stuck in enigma when i could be alot better off with a jewelers isnt viable.

what ever tigerprawn's playstyle is fine as long as it works for him.

i do some of the same shiz tigerprawn does, but i also do it with out stating around engima. so if time comes i need to swap for my jewelers or duress I can, where he can not. thats versatility.

I'm not so sure... only 400+ life? seems sorta low man.
He has a good 100 vitality on you, so 100*1.5 = 150 extra life I think. 150 *+400% +150 > 750 total life after bonuses. I'm almost positive, it's gotta up there at least.
[oak (~100%), BO (70%), Werebear+Lycan (~250%>) = 420%+ life] Those are my calc.

I hate math. im just going by my life total at the time i made my fc druid stating around enigma then remade with the exact same gear, only NOT stating around enigma. The difference was only 400-500.

I'm not really making any serious points here, but I do like talking stategy, it's just fun for me

me too

 

[Jary]

1000 POSTS!

Do I level up?

 

[lendial]

just realize youll meet alot alot of terrible terrible TERRIBLE people along the way but dont let those bad apples spoil your experience.

be GM and if they are BM even if you are nice and GM, just squelch and kill or save and exit to save yourself internet flame wars.

 

[Borje]

Hello again!

I do nt have much to contribute to these discussions but I really do like reading them. Thx for all the good points and some constructive discussions that will really help me in my making of the FC Bear.

//Börje @ EUScL

 

[TigerPrawn]

So I finally got a bit of time to test out my life loss/gain with Enigma...

When I unequip enigma... I lose from anywhere between 800-1100 HP depending on gear/charms being used at the moment. This is after equipping something like Duress which has no life mod.

Furthermore, this does not count the stat points saved from STR, which would add up to a bit more HP.

So just a fun tidbit for those who were wondering... Also this is at lvl 91 with 1 hard point into Oak, 2 hard points into Lycan, and only a lvl 1 CTA.