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[Guide] Build Efficiency 101 – Overview & Resource Compilation

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by ffs, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Post-RFL update on this as expected. Changes:
    MF:
    • Linked to @Fruit's post re teleport path impact.
    • Included @Gripphon's AT Barb.
    RF:
    • Removed CS Seal trick section (now only under combined RF/MF)
    • Trav: Included @Gripphon's MF Sorc and 200 FCR Sorc variations. Also added the tips/tweaks/analysis videos I made on Barb and Sorc during RFL.
    • Cows: Moved Trapper to "tier 1" build. Updated videos on several other builds.
    • AS: Updated Java info, added FB Sorc as demonstrated by Gripp.
    MF/RF:
    • More information and status of CS seal trick running
    Plus in general some minor adjustments/clarifications on points I had noticed throughout the guide.

    As always, if any further suggestions/comments come to mind, feel free to let me know here or via PM.
     
    imakeigloospat, jonnyphive and Luhkoh like this.
  2. drmalawi

    drmalawi IncGamers Member

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    I have to ask, how is "fastest" defined?

    As you know, I want to update some old stuff regarding rune hunting. So it would be nice to know what is meant by "fastest" in this case.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
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  3. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    What it means is the expected time spent to get or cube the rune. I realize your numbers given here deviate from Gripp's original ones, but generally I gather that statement still holds true.

    Edit: Shot you a PM re confidence level numbers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
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  4. drmalawi

    drmalawi IncGamers Member

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    @ffs here is a draft, let me know if this information is enough or if more is needed (I will pitch in the other "outcomes" - i.e. runewords, later)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    General information

    CL(t) = Probability(S,t) = 100% - P(!S,t) is called Confidence Level,
    where S means success of a defined outcome and !S means not success (in other words, fail).
    CL(t) is interpreted as the probability of succeeding in t runs or fewer.

    E is the expected number of runs, defined as the integral over t*p(S,t) from t = 0 to infinity (not the runeword :p)
    p(S,t) is the probability mass density, which is the derivative with respect to t of 100% - P(!S,t).
    E is the continuous case of the average value = the sum of runs for all players to achieve S divided by the sum of players.

    The format (x,y) means P(x number of Ber runes)*P(y number of Sur runes)
    it will make much more sense later on, trust me.

    The number of patterns for each rune and difficulty is based on the findings by Fruit.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Outcome:
    At least one effective Ber (straight drop or cubing of 2 Sur)

    P(!S,t) = (0,0) + (0,1)

    Code:
    CL vs. # of Runs, for p5 and p7
    
    CL        p5       p7
    -----    -----   -----
    25%      672       776
    50%      1437     1477
    65%      2008     2043
    75%      2476     2584
    85%      3149     3364
    95%      4501     4956
    
    E = 1846 runs for p5, corresponds to 60.5% CL
    
    E = 1801 runs for p7, corresponds to 59.6% CL
    
    
    Graph over CL vs. # of Runs:
    [​IMG]

    Interpretation of the results:
    For this outcome, we see that for ~1700 Runs or fewer, you have a higher chance of success at p5 than on p7.
    The expected number of runs for success are in both cases ~60% at 1801 (p7) vs. 1846 runs (p5).
    What is "fastest" or "best" is not easy to answer since it depends on your target probability (and other things like runes & jewels - will make a discussion on that later, and safety for HC - monsters deal around 10% less damage on p5 compared to p7).
    At 95% CL, there is a ~10% difference in the number of runs needed (~4500 on p7 vs ~5000 on p5) which is around 3-3.5 hours.

    Left to post:
    Same as above but for Infinity (2Bers), Enigma (3Bers) and Infinity + Enigma (5Bers).
    I will also do CL graphs and tables for Trav and Cows, and possibly also Arcane Sanctuary and Act 5 Super-/Sparklychests (using the results from Fruit's work).
    In addition, I will discuss Jewels and Charms from LK p5 vs p7 using more of the excellent work by Fruit.

    EDIT:
    I will start a new thread about these things, this post was just meant as a template / fast feedback.
    By having "my" own thread, it will be easier for anyone to pull out numbers and figures for their own guides and such, plus the discussion will be more focused.
    When I have more results ready and make my own thread, this post will be edited/removed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
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  5. drmalawi

    drmalawi IncGamers Member

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    I have been a bit lazy regarding the stuff I intended to do in the post above. My focus has been my TC3 grail project and build guides for other games :(
     
  6. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    No worries, after RFL seems like most of us need a break anyway. ;)
     

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