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[Guide] Build Efficiency 101 – Overview & Resource Compilation

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by ffs, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. NanoMist

    NanoMist IncGamers Member

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    Amazing compilation of information, setups, and videos.. great work!
     
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  2. PhineasB

    PhineasB IncGamers Member

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    Stickied please!

    Much appreciation @ffs for the work to pull this together! Even for someone who's not a stickler for efficiency, it twas a very cool read.
     
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  3. ioupainmax

    ioupainmax IncGamers Member

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    ffs likes this.
  4. Grape

    Grape IncGamers Member

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    Incredible job!
     
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  5. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Thanks all, glad this is well received! I tried my best to include the essentials, but of course in all likelihood there are further resources that make sense to include – so again, please do feel free to let me know (be it here or via PM) if something comes to mind, same for possible mistakes or any other suggestions.
     
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  6. crawlingdeadman

    crawlingdeadman IncGamers Member

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    This sounds to me like stun is overwriting the howl effect instead of what it's actually doing which is stopping the fleeing monsters from running away.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
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  7. Pb_pal

    Pb_pal IncGamers Member

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    Simply amazing. This is an incredible resource, thanks for the hard work!
     
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  8. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Btw, I know we already have quite some stickies and too many isn't good for visibility and all, but ... sticky please? ;)
     
  9. Caralis

    Caralis IncGamers Member

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    ty for the hardwork @ffs, really appreciated.
     
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  10. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    I was kind of busy recently but now got around to implementing the comments I've received here and via PM. (Also clarified a couple of wordings that I felt weren't quite to the point.) Thanks for the feedback and suggestions! Keep them coming if more comes to mind.
     
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  11. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    I did offer to do that but you know no one will ever find it now. :p
     
  12. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    Sorry, didn't see this, someone hid it in the stickies :p

    Now added to the Community & Links thread, post 6 under Build Guides. Nice job @ffs
    I have now cleaned of the adhesive.
     
  13. Aylear

    Aylear IncGamers Member

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    This thread is fantastic, thank you @ffs. =) I'm coming back to the game after a hiatus (and it seems some things have changed), so this has been really useful.

    1) I'm surprised to see that there is no Lightning Sorceress in the guide. Are they just outclassed by the specialists at this point? For the longest time the consensus seemed to be that a fully decked out Lit Sorc was the best high level runner in the game. If I wanted to run a Lit Sorc for fun, can someone offer an optimal contemporary guide/build for her?

    2) Worldstone Keep/Baal builds? I don't really have a dedicated runner for this and it's not really covered in the guide (other than a link to a video of a Blizz Sorc run). Worth spending time on? And if so, what's best?
     
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  14. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Thanks! I'm a big fan of Light Sorcs, even brought an untwinked one to 99. :) She is mentioned as a Pit runner in the "other builds" section and for Nihlathak (might be the fastest build to run him). As for WSK, some options are mentioned in the "combined" section. But yeah in terms of MF/RF, other builds/targets end up being more efficient. Light Sorc is a very fast Baal runner, so if you want to do that and play a Light Sorc it seems like a perfect fit for you. ;) Can't point you to a proper guide from the top of my head, but I remember I recorded hitting 98 with my untwinked Sorc on Baal. Here's the video with gear shown in the end if it is any help.
     
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  15. MizzouFTW

    MizzouFTW IncGamers Member

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    Perfecto! Very nice read while I'm taking a break from LK. Thanks for compiling this.
     
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  16. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Finally a rainy day on paradise beach :p so I got around to an overhaul of this.

    Changes to Part I (MF):
    • Deleted Snapchip. He didn’t live up to the hype!
    • Deleted FB Sorc for running him as a consequence.
    Changes to Part II (RF):
    • Included link to @Luhkoh's RF spreadsheet.
    • Included link to @EatSleepDiablov2's thread on Seal trick CS runs. Held off on anything further for now given it’s not yet properly tested.
    • Expanded some "other builds" sections, in particular cow running Sin/Sorc builds discussed in the current RFL thread. Added vid to BotD Trav Zealot.
    Changes to Part III (MF/RF):
    • Included information on CS seal trick here because I suspect it has more of an effect here than on pure RF running. Remains to be seen though.
    • Included P7 Pit Nova. She has a lot of potential IMO. Also included P7 Pit Bowie because she’s actually not that bad!
    I am aware I will most likely need to update this again after many RFL discoveries, at least I actually hope so.;) In particular for CS running after R3. But I thought I’d get the other things out of the way in any case.

    Again, if anyone feels something should be added or adjusted, feel free to do so here or via PM.
     
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  17. Luhkoh

    Luhkoh IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for including the sheet, glad you liked it! Do we have any videos around of someone doing sub 20s LK runs for a while? I always thought it would be nice to include here and/or in Gripphons guide.
     
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  18. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    I’ll look for an LK vid, otherwise I can record a couple of runs at some point.

    Also going to try and come up with some kind of system to compare combined MF/RF efficiency more precisely... Seems quite hard to find a way to do that. I’m open to ideas! :)
     
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  19. Luhkoh

    Luhkoh IncGamers Member

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    I think a metric like the one on owlie's spreadsheet is perfect for this. Maybe just expand it to more data points. But something like ratio of avg time to find griffins to avg time to find jah. Or just providing those two numbers since the ratio of rf to mf desired probably varies a ton. Were you mulling over any other ideas?

    Or something like like averaging percent mf efficiency (as compared to very good pitzerker time or something) and percent rf efficiency (as compared to what? maybe cow necro/java) then you'd have a percent score that weighted them both equally, but nobody would come very close to 100%.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  20. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Well for the MF part we have the seconds per boss so that’s the easy part.

    For RF it’s already quite difficult, even more so across different areas. Run times don’t say that much because some builds clear much more regular monsters than others, especially when keeping MF part in mind. Also things like CS seal glitch are different again.

    So far again the best method that comes to mind is counting monsters for some runs. ;) The vids are there, or can be made, so it’s just a matter of doing it.

    Then the question is how to combine the scores once you have data for MF and RF. Generally I like the idea of using expected time to find certain items.

    Say expected numbers for an area runner are 120h to get DWeb and 200h to get Zod. Then how to combine these to a scoring system that makes sense. Thinking out loud, first idea is very simple, just taking the sum (or average) of that... the lower the number, the higher the combined MF/RF efficiency.

    Thoughts and ideas are most welcome! :)
     

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